C-TownWing

Aside from the thing eva pointed out (that the quote was from well after Yzerman's prime), would you really expect Steve freaking Yzerman to say "*I'M* the best player, of course!" That's just not in his DNA, period.

Exactly. I'm not screaming about how Gary Bettman is the antichrist because of this. I don't think it's causing the downfall of the NHL. In the grand scheme of things, it's not that big of a deal. But seriously, it's bush. Lidstrom's an all-time great. I really can't imagine this happening with any other league. And yes, the NHL is accountable, even though they didn't make the jersey. I don't know that anyone would have noticed if the guy on stage didn't wear a jersey or wore a blank Wings jersey or something like that. Hell, even if he had worn the Datsyuk jersey, people would be ripping on them for screwing up, but they wouldn't feel insulted. PS. I've recently seen it spelled "Lindstrom" on this very message board. Just throwing a bone to the other side

Agree...if your name's on it, you're allowed to touch. My understanding is that the no touch thing is for people who have never won it and don't want to jinx it from happening by touching it before it's earned.

Big works for me, my head's undergone a Barry Bonds-like explosion over the last couple years. Which is weird because I've lost weight. Just not in my head I guess. But FedEx says mine's coming tomorrow and I'm jacked.

Makes perfect sense, since that's how I feel too. Great arguments on both sides, in fact, after reading a couple of the Yzerman posts, I almost changed my "vote." Someone referenced the Hockey News book earlier where they rated the 60 best players of the post-expansion era. FWIW, they had Yzerman #6, Lidstrom #9. The catch obviously is that Lids is still very much an active player. Also of interest: Coffey #16, Hasek #17, Brett Hull #22, Dionne #23, Chelios #32, Park #36, F. Mahovlich #43, Shanahan #49, Robitaille #51, Salming #59, Fedorov #60. Oh, by the way, Sidney Crosby was #57 after just two seasons (at the time of publication).

NYC gets a pass for now because of the Giants pulling off that massively awesome upset in the Super Bowl, but generally you're right, most of their teams are jokes and even the Yankees have been in a slow decline for several years. Chicago...quick recap. Cubs: Haven't won a WS since 1908, haven't even been to one since 1945. White Sox: Before 2005, last WS title was 1917. Generally recognized as a garbage franchise, historically speaking. Bears: Great tradition...from before any of us were born. They've been mediocre to bad for most of the last 20 years. They've won exactly one Super Bowl over 20 years ago, not nearly enough to prop up the run they get. Blackhawks: Three Stanley Cups is the fewest of any Original 6 franchise, and the last in 1961 means they have the longest drought going, by six years over the Leafs' much better-known one. If it weren't for Michael Jordan, Chicago would be a total black hole for sports success, especially when factoring in market size, the fact that they have 5 teams, etc.

Nice...hopefully the Doc/Edzo slam will scare some people straight. For what it's worth, I actually thought Cheli was better this regular season than last regular season, so it's hard for me to buy what most of you are selling. I think because he's 46 years old, people are quick to jump on that and equate "slump" with "done." I happen to think he just had a bad series against Dallas and that it wasn't necessarily related to age or declining ability. We'll see either way I guess.

If it weren't for a guy named Bobby Orr, Lidstrom would be starting to get recognition as possibly the best D to ever play the game. Yzerman's an all-time great to be sure and he'll always be my all-time favorite Wing for all the well-known reasons, but I don't think he's quite in the same category. Put it this way. It's always said that Yzerman never got his due because he had to play center in the same era as Gretzky and Lemieux. But a guy in the Lidstrom category wouldn't have that problem, because he'd BE Gretzky or Lemieux.

Cheli's willingness to be a #7 means that it's now Lilja in the way of our young Ds, not him. I'm actually not part of the crap on Lilja club and think he's decent, but you have to let him walk I think, and let Lebda and the kids fight for time on the 3rd pair. Anytime a first-ballot HOF/three-time Norris winner with leadership qualities who can still play a little says that he'll be a #7 and do it for basically nothing, you take it, IMO.

I ABSOLUTELY HATE the "he's on a good team, therefore he's not that good" logic. It's beyond stupid, so it's nice to see someone else tear it down. Did Sawchuk not play for good teams at the peak of his career with the 50s Wings? The Habs guys like Dryden and Plante must REALLY suck, all those teams did was win Cup after Cup! Brodeur? He's garbage too, the Devils have been too good during his career. Bower, Roy, Parent...nope. Hasek was really good until he joined the Wings and started winning Cups. I guess that leaves Roberto Luongo is the best goalie ever. Gilles Meloche is a close 2nd. In all seriousness, Chris Osgood is, at worst, the 2nd best goaltender in Wings history by any objective measure out there. He deserves consideration for sure. Slightly different way to look at things: the early 50s Wings won 4 Cups, and the retirements of every number besides Yzerman (1, 7, 9, 10, 12--5 players) came about at least in part because of that run. Why is it then so unreasonable to take four players from the run of the last 15 years? In my perfect world, that's Yzerman, Lidstrom, Osgood, Fedorov.

I have that one too--and actually printed out a red "2008," cut it out and taped it next to "2002." The availability of recent banners for the Ducks, Canes, etc. has been late fall-ish. But then again, those were teams winning their first Cup, so they probably had to wait to see what the actual banner would look like. An update on an existing design like ours might be ready sooner. Either way, I'll be getting that too once it's out.

I'm not sure how you can say "no storybook success stories this year" with a chaulpa like the Caps and Boudreau hanging out there. It's unfortunate that coaches of good teams always get overlooked, but that's what happens. Especially unfortunate because I think the Wings' success had more to do with coaching/system than the Caps' turnaround (not a knock on Boudreau, since he was smart enough to let the kids loose, which is where Hanlon failed). I'll go with Dats on the Selke too just on his ridiculous takeaway number and leading the league in +/-. If voting happened after the playoffs, I'd go with Z on the ridiculous amount of (completely deserved) attention he got for his shorthanded play and his play vs. Crosby. Masterson: My gut says Pisani, but if the voters felt like this is it for Cheli, they could give it to him on career achievement. Problem is, I don't know that anyone was saying Cheli is done pre-playoffs. Agree on Hart/Pearson/Norris/Vezina/Calder.

Hey, I was a staunch CuJo guy. Crazy times back then, and that's just how it goes, especially for goalies who wear the winged wheel.

Got the lockerroom hat and shirt (the shirt's ugly, but I'm a ***** for anything with the word "official" in it), as well as a puck and preordered the DVD that night. I'd better at least have the hat in time for my family reunion in a couple weeks, I have relatives from Chicago who told me at Christmas "hey, if we played you guys every game, we'd be 82-0!" so I want to make them eat it a little. It's not a championship thing, but I'm also getting a Danbury Mint Olympia Stadium (http://www.danburymint.com/sports/product.asp?code=HKB-26) as part of me burning disposable income from winning the Cup. I love those things and it'll look sweet next to my JLA. My BIG deal purchase though will be an authentic white Datsyuk jersey with the patch...my favorite jersey is my authentic Yzerman with the 1998 Cup and VK/SM patches, so I'm planning on putting this one in that category.

Best I've ever seen, period. In his prime, he was the one goalie to really scare the crap out of me going against him, as in "how the hell are we going to get 3 past him and win?" I never get/got quite that feeling with Brodeur or Roy. I'll admit to hating on him during the 2004 mess, but he more than made up for it with an amazing season/playoffs last year (he never got enough respect for that) and his significant contributions to the Cup team this year (which hopefully will not be forgotten to history).

"We are the Hockeytown. ARRRR!!!" Still cracking up over that one. That's even ahead of Kwame declaring that the beer was on him or Huds' "let's go Red Vings" chant.

...and how dare he extort $6.7 mil. per out of us?

For what it's worth, Bill Clement (who was there to do game 6 for NHL radio) said on XM that there was definitely booing, and scolded Pens' fans for their behavior.

I've been listening to XM 204 for the last 24 basically, except for at work, and it seems like half the talk is about the Pens' coming of age/future dynasty/etc. All of that may be true, but we were the victors, and our spoils are SUPPOSED to be the media drooling over us all offseason. That part of it's been disappointing so far. Oh well, I'll go tape a piece of paper that says "2008" to my Wings replica Stanley Cup banner. That'll make me feel better.

1. Will Lidstrom finish next season as a Norris Nominee? Absolutely. 2. He finished the season with 27 goals, despite spending much of the season in the bottom 6. With a regular top six role, can Franzen score 40 goals? I'm going to go no to that one...was it a hot streak or is he legit? I say both. He'll hit 30, but not 40. 3. Will the Wings have a 100 point man? a 50 goal man? If yes, who? Yes to the 100 points, I'll call Datsyuk on that one. No to the 50 goals, I'll put Z in the mid-40s. 4. Will a rookie defenseman find himself with a regular roster spot? If yes, who? Yes, Jonathan Ericsson. 5. Will Howard back-up Ozzie with a winning record and a good statistical showing? Hope so, right now, all of our "goalie of the future" eggs are in the Howard basket. I think he comes through and learns a lot from one of the best. 6. Out of Filppula, Samuelsson, and Hudler, who tallies the most points? Most goals? Filppula on both, he and Franzen will be our top secondary scorers. 7. Which Darren makes the top 13 forwards - McCarty, Helm or Both? Both. Helm dresses regularly, McCarty is the spare. 8. Does Kopecky score either of 10 goals or 20 points? Woof. Tough one, but given that optimism rules the day right now, I'll say yes. 9. His playoff scoring rate would equate to 54 points on a regular season. Can Niklas Kronwall break 50 points next regular season? No. He was going at a good clip and it still projects out to barely over 50. He'll start hitting that number on a regular basis once he starts getting top-2 ice though. 10. Predict the number of Red Wing wins for next season, and their number of wins against Chicago ( ). 52 and 1

Can't say I'm surprised... 1. He's a garbage coach. 2. Think about how ridiculous/annoying he is at the press conferences. And that's just after a couple minutes. Imagine if you had to work for the guy and hear from him EVERY DAY.

How f-ing sweet is that to stare at 3 Winged Wheels on that poll? And they're easily 1-3 right now. 2002 has to be it for me, with the 9 HOF players and Bowman. Just in terms of pure talent, that might be the best team ever. 2008 gets the edge over 1998 on the basis of defense, which was hard, because being the last team to repeat has to count for something. Right behind us are the Avs, Devils teams and Stars, in that order. At the bottom go the Lighting, Ducks and Hurricanes.

I'll eat it for wanting to jump off a bridge after the last two game 5s. I guess I can admit it now that we won the Cup, but after the Dallas one, I was so pissed that we were choking away the series that I ran in the bathroom, declared "these things don't work worth a goddamn" and buzzed off my playoff beard. For that time in March when I was at The Drake's 1000th game and declared him completely useless. He was the opposite of that during this run. And for actually thinking Crosby was tremedously mature. Sorry, had to throw that in.

Damn straight...we don't get our names on the cup, representing with the gear is how we get to celebrate!

Seconded, great post...I was worried that I'd end up hating my (distant) second team because of this series, but thankfully it didn't turn out that way...I shut off the animosity during the postgame. The Pens will win it very, very soon, and as long as it's not against us, I'll be thrilled. Next step: hoping Shero has an idea what he's doing with his cap space.