C-TownWing

Except for dumping on Esposito, Dryden, Coffey and a couple others, that's a pretty good list. Fedorov and Shanahan are the 4th and 8th leading scorers in Wings history. #s 1, 2, 3 and 7 have had their numbers retired, #5 (Lidstrom) will, and #6 (Norm Ullman) probably deserves consideration too. So does Red Kelly, IMO. Here's an off-the-wall thought that I'm sure will get ripped: what about Chris Osgood? He doesn't have the hardware collection, but he's second in every major goalie statistical category behind Sawchuk in team history, actually has a slightly better GAA than him in a Wings uniform (2.43-2.46 coming into this season), and won two cups. All of that said, Lidstrom's probably the only one of that group that ends up in the rafters, and I would be ok with that, even as much of a Shanafan as I am. Other random thought: Why Yzerman's banner has a C on it is obvious, but what's kind of funny is that every banner up there except Sawchuk was a captain at some point of their Wings career. Including Nick if you want to think ahead. I wouldn't expect the four years served by Lindsay or Howe to be recognized on the banner, but recognizing Delvecchio's 11+ years of wearing the C might be appropriate.

I can't stand the way he says the word "mesh," as in where the puck goes when it's deflected out of play. Like if he said "netting" or "net," someone would get it confused with THE net.

Exactly. Just to recap: Central Division: #1, #4, #10, #11, #13 teams in the conference right now. Northwest Division: #3, #7, #8, #9, #12 Pacific Division: #2, #5, #6, #14, #15 I don't really see THAT much disparity there. While we only have two playoff teams to the three in the other two divisions, our two are the #1, and the #4 (best non-division winner). It's almost like people hold the fact that we don't play against ourselves against us. Oh, and let's conveniently forget this: 2-2-0 vs. Anaheim 1-2-1 vs. Vancouver 6-1-1 vs. Nashville 3-0-1 vs. Dallas 1-3-0 vs. San Jose 3-0-1 vs. Minnesota 2-2-0 vs. Calgary Total: 18-10-4 vs. West playoff teams

No offense to anyone, but the "black angle" seems like kind of a ridiculous argument...just some numbers to chew on: Metro Detroit: 4.5 million people Detroit city: 0.9 million people Or split it up like the Census bureau does... Detroit-Livonia-Dearborn: 2.0 million people Warren-Troy-Farmington Hills: 2.5 million people Here's my angle. Football is the most popular sport in America, the NFL is the most popular league in America. So I think if you just go by attendance, TV ratings, merchandise sales, etc. pretty much every city would be a football city first. Why not compare your teams to some kind of vague average? Here's how I see it as an outsider: Wings: WAY above average support for a US NHL team. Lions: Slightly above average support for an NFL team, which considering their suckiness, is a pretty big deal. Tigers: Right now, above average support for an MLB team. Two years ago, below average. Pistons: Generally, right around average support for an NBA team with a slight boost with recent success. I guess the larger issue to me is: why does anyone care? Here in my hometown, it's basically a large group of fans jumping from bandwagon to bandwagon depending on which team is doing the best. That'll happen with no major-league championships since 1964. But in Detroit, every team has been getting a decent share of success in my lifetime except the Lions, who aren't hurting for support. I say root for who you like, and as long as enough other people are doing the same so that the team survives and thrives, who gives a crap who's "most popular" or whatever?

Bert too... I was also surprised to see Cheli not get a single "most hated" vote, and he's pretty high on the "most respected" list. Getting old does wonders for your rep. Or the players didn't like having their e-mails read.

When I think of "ring of honor," I think of teams that actually have enough tradition to put something in the ring. Bobby Hull? Thomas Steen? Dale Hawerchuk? Somewhere, a Winnipeg Jets fan is jumping off a bridge. Hope the Coyotes enjoy their one shot at drawing more than 16,000 this season, but if they had any class, they'd try to get their own history.

I'm a playoff beard guy, and I tried to ride the fence last year as a concession to my employer--I shaved the neck and just grew it on the front of my face. Didn't work obviously. This year, I'm saying screw it and going all out with it. I've saved up enough goodwill that I can blow some of it on something important like this.

This topic=bad karma.

That's going to be one of my next purchases, either that or the 1984 all-star throwback. I'm also getting a Zetterberg, but I'm waiting for the new jerseys next year, since they'll allow me to go from my seat to the bathroom and back 8% faster. Right now, I have: * Yzerman red, completely authentic and with the VK/SM and 1998 Stanley Cup patches. I used all my HS graduation money to buy it, and it's my unquestioned alpha jersey, even 10 years later. * White Shanahan * Red Chelios * White Fedorov (haven't worn that one in a while) * Plain black RBK practice jersey Other teams: * Chelios white Blackhawks © * Chelios white Canadiens © * Gilles Meloche white Cleveland Barons * Blank blue Hartford Whalers * Gerry Cheevers purple Cleveland Crusaders (WHA) * Tony Amonte white Team USA (1998 Olympics version). I'd rather have a Cheli (I like the guy if you can't tell), but it was a hand-me-down * Blank black Cleveland Lumberjacks (IHL) * Curtiss Patrick (Craig Patrick's nephew) black Wheeling Nailers (ECHL) * A pile of PSU hockey jerseys

I don't know about that one...Beezer was pretty clutch with the 1995-96 Panthers. Leading scorer on that team was...uhhh...Scott Mellanby. Richter was great in 1994, but on a team with no fewer than five other players (Messier, Zubov, Kovalev, Anderson, Leetch) who have at least been mentioned in this thread. They're both about equal in my personal goalie rankings, but if someone put a gun to my head, I'm going with Beezer.

I don't know if I buy that one--for pretty much the whole 2nd half of the 90s, you could've called Hasek the best player in hockey, goalie or not, and nobody would've batted an eye. 1993-2001: 8 seasons, 6 Vezinas, 2 Harts, 2 Pearsons, an Olympic gold. All behind, well, not a whole lot. He probably could've tacked on another Vezina and a Conn Smythe in 2001-02, but the absolutely stacked team he played for probably hurt him there. Even if he had never played for the Wings, Hasek would've been the first goalie on my list, even ahead of Roy. Even throwing out all the trophies and accolades, I think back to both goalies in their prime. When your team played the Devils, the big question was whether you could beat the trap. When your team played the Sabres, it was whether you could get enough by Hasek to win. No knock on Brodeur, he's probably in my top 10 Gs ever, just putting my argument out there.

I'm going to give mine some structure, cause I tend to think there's a bias towards forwards in these types of things. So to keep it in rough proportion to the positions on the ice at one time, I'm going with five forwards, three defensemen, two goalies. I've never been huge on just going by point totals or trophies, so I'm just picking from my gut. F: Gretzky, Lemieux, Yzerman are mortal locks. It's beyond tough to fill the last two slots--Hull, Jagr, Messier, Bossy, Forsberg, Sakic, Fedorov, Modano were the first names that popped into my head. I'll take Sakic, I've always had a ton of respect for his game and his class. I'll go with Hull over Messier for that last spot because I have enough freaking captains and centers already, we need someone to score the goals. D: Bourque and Lidstrom are locks. Lidstrom's been the best in the game for 10 years or so, and Bourque was the best in the game for the 10 years or so before that. I'm taking Chelios over Coffey for the last spot. Part of that's favorite-player bias, but part of it's also to get some physicality and a strictly defensive defenseman on the list (not that Lids isn't phenomenal, just that he does too much scoring to be thought of that way). G: Roy and Hasek have pretty much separated themselves as the generation-defining goalies. Brodeur's close, but not quite at that level.

I still can't figure out why Nashville continues to make so much of Modano's slash. That swing wasn't exactly from the McSorley/Simon school and given the heat of the moment, it's entirely possible Tootoo didn't even feel it. Incident or no, there should've been an announcement, it's the right thing to do. I also agree that Dallas comes off as whiny, kind of a dumb thing to complain about in the grand scheme of things.

I think there was a video of that linked from the "greatest goals you've ever seen" thread a while back. I'll be the first to step up and say that his production hasn't matched his reputation/hype the last few years. Kind of like another Russian we're pretty familiar with. But that shouldn't take away from the fact that he's a tremendously skilled player who's been hit with a terrible affliction. No career should end that way, not Alex Kovalev's, not even Boyd Devereaux's.

Bingo. I should make it clear that I want the Pens to find a way to stay, but if they do move, I'd loooove to see the NHL get a foothold in the fastest-growing city in America before any other major leagues. Since the team is likely to be very, very successful in the very near future and already has the most marketable young player in the league, I don't think cultivating fans will be a major problem. Gambling issues? Just keep Rick Tocchet and the Gretzkys away from the franchise. Big picture this would help the league much more than somewhat minor negative buzz would hurt it.

I hate to state the obvious, but scrapping the unbalanced schedule also means fewer games against the Preds that get the fans into it, not just Chicago/Columbus/St. Louis. I like the Nashville games, just because that team is the epitome of what many on here say we're not but ought to be. So it's a great measuring stick as far as I'm concerned. I was relegated, as usual, to my XM, but yeah, the crowd sounded juiced. Great job to everyone who was there!

There's a difference between being cowardly and not being a great fighter. He's an agitator, but not in the league of a Laraque or Probert as a fighter. Few are. He knows this. Going after Yzerman and Selanne? Call me a throwback, but I believe in the Gordie Howe school of fighting your own battles. If Cheli has a beef with a star player, he shouldn't have to ask permission from the resident goon before acting on it. If a guy whose alias pays tribute to Harold Snepsts says Cheli isn't cowardly, that's good enough for me. But go ahead and continue to hang your hat on Tie Domi's opinion.

Agreed, as long as we're limiting this to other players, and not Ted Saskin or Gary Bettman (along with his family).

Excellent point. The initial punches in both cases were pretty similar. Except one's a hero to us and the other is hated across the league. The crucial difference is in what happened right after the punch, just because Bert had a hold of Steve Moore and fell right on him. The injury occured when Moore hit the ice, and to act like Bert had any intention of hurting him like that is insane. In fact, as was pointed out, Mac was able to continue his aggression after Lemieux had basically given up and turtled--it was actually a more egregious action in pretty much every way except the end result. If you want a silver lining, remember that the Bert incident was in response to a cheap shot on Naslund. We could use some of that, without the unfortunate accident part of course.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't need something to be popular to justify my opinion of it. As long as the league is financially viable, I know where to find it.

HAHAHAHA good one dropping my hockey-pathetic hometown in there...of the cities on the list, I think Houston, Seattle and MAYBE Portland (although that would remind me an awful lot of Vancouver with the Canucks and Grizzlies) have the market strength to add another major-league team. The Peg is at worst fourth behind those three, and probably third on my list. PS. Can someone explain to me how we move to the East if the Preds move to Seattle? For the record, I'd hate to see another Nordiques situation, where a team bails on its fans, only to win the Cup their first year in a new city and get a huge group of abrasive bandwagoners right off the bat.