WingsCaptain

Great pic of the "Babcock Death Stare." If you stare back, I hear he might charge you, but apparently nobody's lived to tell about it. What I'm wondering is, in the picture why is there a Pens fan behind Babcock -- at a CBJ / Det game? Bandwagon fan or so dumb that he thought that was a good idea to do at the Joe? ~ Z

I was actually on a submarine or "boat," stationed in Norfolk, VA. We were a SEAL deployment vessel, so we saw a little more action than other boats. We also take offense at our boats being referred to as ships, since that's what we sink. Some vessels were designed to sink and others required our assistance. I'm 3rd generation military. My wife is a MSG in the Army. She's a former drill sgt and has qualified waaay more weapons than me. My sister is a National Guard doc who patched up troops in Baghdad for 4 months. So, I appreciate what you do, what you did, and what you'll do in the future. Good on you, bro. Had I known, I would have worded my comments to you differently; you deserve more respect than that. Now back to talking Red Wings hockey before we all get lynched. V/r, ~ Z

I'm well aware of our ancestry and how that makes the U.S. a great country. We are a melting pot of humanity which has worked well together, for the most part. I'm 4th generation American, so I get it. I live in DC where illegals as well as legal immigrants make up a large and valuable workforce ... that also leeches off of our healthcare system and typically doesn't have insurance when they crash into your car (from personal experience). If it doesn't bother you, then you either don't pay taxes or don't buy healthcare. My healthcare each month is ridiculous. I also find it ironic when I see the protests for rights for illegal immigrants. It baffles me. You want rights? Then come into America legally like you're supposed to. Are they special? No. None of us are, or should be. I'm also well-educated despite what the other poster thought of my "ignorant" background. I've been all over the world (46 countries) in the U.S. Navy and personal travel. Before that I lived in Taif, Saudi Arabia, for three years when my father worked for McDonnell Douglas. I was required to learn Arabic and to read the Quran, although I'm not Muslim. I did so because it's their country and their rules for foreigners. When I visit other countries, I make an attempt to speak the primary language regardless of my length of stay. So please, do lecture me on "ignorance." For the poster who said there is no national language, that's true enough. English is, however, the primary language. Precisely why the public school system doesn't require students to learn Spanish, French, Portuguese, German, or Mandarin in grade school. We do have the options to learn other languages, which I did both in high school and college. I chose German. In hindsight I should've chosen Spanish. I believe that if you're going to live in another country then, yes, you should learn the primary language of that country. I spent 3 months as a foreign exchange student in Schorndorf, GER, and I spoke the language. I also had to learn Arabic as I mentioned. Every day I have 12 guys from El Salvador working for me. I work with a very nice lady from Honduras, a gentleman from Russia, another from Ukraine, and I work for two guys (the President and CEO of the company) who are from mainland China. All of them were born out of country yet somehow each and every one of them speaks English quite well. Too busy to learn English? I can buy that to a certain extent, but then how are you able to get by without eventually learning enough to become socialized? Eventually they all do, from what I've seen. But, I get what you're saying there. There's a learning curve and learning to speak any language takes time. Right on. As long as there's an attempt. I've read that Hispanics will be the majority in 30 years. If the primary language becomes Spanish, I'm willing to learn it. I have been wanting to learn Spanish anyway, since my wife and her family are from Mexico. Her ancestors came here legally and are quite opposed to illegals coming over. I have a feeling both languages will be used or at the very least, Spanglish. Again, I'm not against speaking Spanish or any other language. Just those who choose not to fit in here by learning English. It's lazy. If they're trying, good on them. Funny how I'm getting crucified for this topic. I never said speak English or get out. I said I wish they would learn the language, and that hearing prompts for Spanish irritates me in a country whose primary language is English. So why do YOU care if that bugs me? Why not have prompts in every other language so we don't leave anyone out? Why only cater to one minority? I defended my country for 11 years knowing that it was to protect the freedoms of others who take them for granted. You're entitled to your opinion and so am I. Largely though, we actually agree on the subject of immigrants. People just seemed to get wrapped around the axle about one thing I wrote. Precisely the type of person I fought to protect. Now THAT'S irony. If you have to resort to name-calling, then you have nothing intelligent to add to the conversation. Bravo. ~ Z

I don't have the first thing against immigrants. Since you obviously didn't read my original post in this thread before posting that ridiculous response, I'll post it again: "That's a question that every English-speaking, American-born person asks every day. The illegal immigrants, however, think it's great. That way they don't have to actually learn the national language of the U.S. " I'm against illegal immigrants and those who choose not to learn the native language of the U.S. and expect the rest of us to learn Spanish. For the record, I am part Cherokee, Irish, and German, and yes, I speak English fluently. So I, like most everybody else and their ancestors, conformed. God forbid I wonder "WTF?" when I see or hear options in Spanish. Anyway, back to the original thread. I voted for Datsyuk to get that ESPY.

What is "United Statesish?" And why is wanting people to speak the native language "holier than thou?" Ohhhhh ... wait ... you're an immigrant? ~ Z

I like Grier, but this is how he gets hurt: I love Mickey's comment: "Houdini's at it again!" Hmmmm ... maybe he avoids injury by playing with the Wings ... ~ Z

I like Grier, but I don't see him ending up in Detroit. Btw, do a search on youtube for "Datsyuk" and "Grier" or "Sharks" for the video of Datsyuk coming out of the defensive zone with the puck and, at the last second, dances around an incoming Grier who then crushes his teammate who was pursuing Dats. Hilarious! I'd post it, but I can't from work ... ~ Z

QFT. How do you know your team is the measuring stick for the entire NHL? When fans of other teams lurk on your forums instead of posting on theirs. ~ Z

That's a question that every English-speaking, American-born person asks every day. The illegal immigrants, however, think it's great. That way they don't have to actually learn the national language of the U.S. Plus, you know, there's all those Mexican-born hockey players ... ~ Z

That's assuming a lot about Leino's character. Pouty? Bored/disappointed because he's not getting #1 ice time? The man proved himself in the Finnish Elite League, was willing to spend a season in the minors to get a chance to play at the NHL level the following year, and just accepted a very reasonable salary contract. He's only shown class so far. And he doesn't need to be AO. I watched AO 16 times in person this past season. Nobody is in AO's class as a goal scorer. We just need Leino to be himself. ~ Z

Want my cake and eat it too? That made no sense whatsoever in that context. But whatever. I think you're missing the point here. Leino isn't some brand new draft pick, fresh out of the minors. He was a late-bloomer, he's got skill, and he's spent plenty of time playing pro hockey. Is he as skilled as Hudler? I'd be willing to wager that he is. A year ago, when the Wings won the Cup, I wasn't particularly impressed with Huds. He improved this year, but who expected that? So if an "under-developed" Leino can score 5 goals and 4 assists on the 3rd and 4th lines in 13 games, then color me impressed. Because when he is "developed," he's going to make Holland say "Jiri who?" after Huds is done playing in the KHL. Helm isn't a known quantity? What playoffs have you been watching? He may have more playoff games in the NHL than regular season games, but we know he's a gamer. Did anyone suggest otherwise in the playoffs this year? No. He's played on the biggest stage and performed well. Confidence is a real shot in the arm, and the boy has it. Abby is the only question mark and even he scored twice in the finals. I'll beat the dead horse again since you didn't read my post(s). We don't need to replace all of the scoring or even have lofty expectations for the young guys. We need to play better "D." You asked why teams should even pay players like Hossa? We shouldn't. We already have 3 high-end players in Z, Pavs, and Mule to put up Hossa-like numbers. Most teams don't have that. The other regulars will pitch in their goals and we'll be fine. Howard is a bust. They would've kept Conklin if they could have. They'll continue to ride Osgood until the wheels fall off or one of the other young goalies is ready, whichever comes first. Unless Howard has been working with Bedard and makes tremendous strides he will be dealt. We'll see come training camp. Not even closely as deep, eh? I guess. In '07-'08 we had Hasek (no-show) and Drake. Hossa didn't play the year we won, as you know. So who else is gone now that wasn't here in '07-'08? Hudler, Kopecky, and Sammy, replaced by Leino, Helm, and whoever Holland grabs off the market. We're not as deep, but only by a slim margin. Actually, the loss of Kopecky was a gain by default. ~ Z

I have, so I'll summarize this dead horse beating (and backtracking) I'm witnessing. I think his message was taken wrong because he wrote "88 goals, 118 assists, and 206 points" like 4 times as if it is some sort of impending doom. Then he wrote: This implies that we're definitely going to be down 88 goals next season. To which many have replied that they believe Leino, Helm, and Abdelkader will step it up. His response to that: Most think the OP is off in his assessment of Leino, Abby, and Helmer. After all, Leino scored 5 goals & 4 assists in 13 games in the regular season, including a goal in his first NHL game ever. What he did in one AHL season while waiting to play in the NHL is really not worth measuring. Then there's Abby who scored two goals in the Finals, and Helmer who was very impressive, at least to me, in the playoffs. The OP finished up with: and Oh, then what is the OP saying? He certainley seems to be expecting the worst. I wouldn't call it "panicking," tho. And don't the Wings have to work hard every year? It's not like we've coasted every year into the playoffs. I don't expect us to blow up the league, but I also don't expect us to fall to the 8 seed. The usual rebuttal, mine included, is to be optimistic instead of doom & gloom, and to realize that we scored fewer goals without Hossa and won the Cup in '08. The difference between '08 and '09 season is defense. This past season we didn't have it together. We lost. As for losing Samuelsson and Hudler, we just move on. We have good young talent and despite the goals scored by either Sammy or Huds, they were at times defensive liabilities. Just have to hope that the young legs are good defensively if they can't put up offensively. And yes I expect guys like Z, Pavs, Mule, Fils, and Cleary to step it up and score more than usual, particularly Pavs and Z. ~ Z

I'm sorry, what were we discussing? Hockey? What's hockey? ~ Z

You want to go old school, let's go old school: Bob effing Probert. ~ Z