RedWingAbner

I guess you are right-- people don't ignore them when he makes them. The point I am trying to make is that we can't get Cup Continuation Syndrome-- ie, all flaws are now minor because we won. There is really no argument on Lilja, yet people are quick to point out he blocks shots. It's hilarious to me to think that only he and George Bush could get credit for doing any sort of decent job covering up for their own mistakes. Granted, every Lilja block is not from him turning the puck over. But come on, guys: He didn't cost us a SEASON this year. He did a year ago. Do we just want to hope that he doesn't next year?

Not a joke, it's true. I'm not saying that Lilja doesn't have positives. Every NHLer does. However, he doesn't do the "good things" with enough consistency to outweigh the bad things. I don't understand how posters can say, "well, he hits people" while ignoring his glaring turnovers. I mean, if we had a guy who punched a referee in the face every time he scored a goal, thus earning multiple suspensions, I have a feeling several posters would defend him by saying "but he scores!" Yes, and he is often suspended for multiple games at a time, thus limiting his value. Lilja hits--so did Gord Kruppke. It's called player evaluation, and in the role that the Wings have him playing vs. the team's long term plan, Lilja is a blockade to prospect development. But hey, I bet Slava Fetisov could still block some shots with 10 minutes a game. Why not pair him with Lilja. (That's not a knock on Fetisov). Give one spot to a kid; if they need more seasoning, maybe we bring back the "Pain Train" at Christmas-- just in time for him to give a gift of a turnover goal to a divisional opponent.

He's the team's director of player development, so he'll get his name on there anyway.

Lilja is not what this team needs. I think quite a few people pick out the occasional nice things he does and pin their assessments on them. Lilja is a step slower than most forwards. He doesn't like to get hit, and it was evident in the Pittsburgh series that Penguins forwards started to run at him so he would step to the side (roll the tape, he played scared). For a 10-minute #6 defenseman, there is no way Lilja should make $1 million. I also think a number of you play to much into what Babcock says about the guy. Lilja was basically a fill-in for Chelios after riding the pine for quite a few games. Do you really think the coach is going to say, "Well, I really like our defense, but Andreas tries to be a goaltender too often, and he's a pansy." No. You don't do that when you are winning games-- why knock a player off his game, even if it is pretty much ineffective. Andreas Lilja is a #7 defenseman; and in his mid-thirties, we don't need to see him play any more to determine that. Give 10 minutes a game to Ericsson; if he can't do it, there are quite a few defenseman that can give you 10 minutes a game of heart-attack hockey that you can pick up mid-season (as a FA) or at the trade deadline. We don't need to tie up a million bucks plus in a spare part. He's a nice guy; but he's not what the Wings need to go forward.

Hartigan is gone. He showed he's worthless. You left Kopecky off that list-- really, Helm played because Kopecky was injured. I love what Downey brought to the team, but McCarty plays the same role and can actually skate, so I'd guess Downey is out. Drake may retire. Abdelkader could still use some seasoning, but he could also play Drake's role. Chelios, in my opinion, is still a better choice than Lilja. It seemed that Lilja was afraid of getting hit and the Penguins sensed it. Meech is a decent guy to keep around because he can play up front. My guess? Chelios re-signs, Meech re-signs, Stuart either re-signs or is villified for taking a large contract elsewhere, Quincey is traded, Lilja is let go, Ericsson steps into Lilja's role.

I can't believe MA Fleury was overlooked! He scored two game winners for us, including the Cup clincher!

Thanks To Fleury for the winner!

I don't think anyone who watches the entire game rather than just looking at who was on the ice for a goal against can doubt Stuart's importance. I was skeptical at first, but he's been an awesome fit for the Wings.

I'd like to know what "trap" they are talking about. Oh, it must be how players drop back and play defense rather than allowing a 3-on-1 rush. How the hell are the Wings playing a trap and outshooting the Penguins at the same time? The trap is used by unskilled teams to beat better teams. THE WINGS HAVE THE BEST OFFENSE IN THE DAMN LEAGUE, MORONS. Penguins fans have replaced Avs fans as the dumbest group in the league. At least COL excuses made a bit of sense.

Yes, but that's like saying if the Russians desecrated the Lenin statues, there would be no more Lenin statues to desecrate. IT IS WORTH IT

I hope I'm not being too presumptive, but let's get some rules established: #1. If more than one person throws, the pot is split evenly. Same for if 3, 4, 5 octopi are thrown-- pot is split. #2. Any throw that hits a Wing and injures them means that the pot is gone. #3. Any throw that hits the Cup and the pot is gone. Are these agreeable? I'll put up $50.

All this arguing about obstruction has not done much. In corner A, you have the entire NHL, save Pittsburgh, who don't whine about "Red Wing obstruction" because it doesn't exist. In corner B, you have the Penguins and their fans. Enough said. Getting away from that, I'd like to start a thread in which we can bemoan some phantom idea that Pittsburgh is getting away with. It doesn't have to be the same thing each time, just something that is so stupid it really shouldn't be brought up in an argument. Perhaps then Pens fans/coaches will realize how dumb they come off. For example: Personally, I'd like to have the refs call a few more penalties for delay of game on the Penguins. I mean, it's subtle, but you can tell that they are dragging the game out by taking extra time getting off the bench and out of the locker room. For a team built on capitalizing on the flow of the game, such as the Red Wings, this is an obvious deterrant and we need the calls to be there for this.

What's in the rulebook? You can't skate in an area desired by the Penguins? This is the stupidest thing I've ever seen by a human. Ever. Are Penguins fans really this dumb? You certainly seem to make it seem that way, but really, are Penguins fans think that this is going on? Wow. Just wow. To skate into an area of open ice, where you could possibly get a pass or just be present in, is not interference. YOU CAN MAKE THE GUY TAKE THE LONG WAY AROUND YOU. You cannot set a "moving pick" or reach out and grab him. To quote a fan from the Vancouver series from '02: Shut Up. Lose. Go Home.

I live in Tampa; the Lightning are quite a story down here, even in the off-season. The main reason? They've won a championship. The fans are loyal to that.

It's funny how Pittsburgh is the only team to trot out this stupid obstruction bulls***. No, it's not obstruction just because your conference is the NHL's minor league and the West is that much better. You just suck at life, Penguins.

When Shanahan signed with NYR, I wasn't as upset as when Fedorov defected. However, I was listening to a radio interview just after Shanahan signed and he said something like, "Well, I felt that certain players, myself included, shouldered too much blame for playoff losses." How did Shanny perform? Considering he was being paid as a top gun, here's his games vs. goals statistics in the playoffs: 1997--20 games, 9-8-17 1998--22 games, 5-4-9 1999--10 games, 3-7-10 2000--9 games, 3-2-5 2001--2 games, 2-2-4 2002--23 games, 8-11-19 2003--4 games, 1-1-2 2004--12 games, 1-5-6 2006--6 games, 1-1-2 2007--10 games, 5-2-7 (with NYR) 2008--10 games, 1-4-5 (with NYR) Since 2002, Shanahan has been a player in decline when it counts, save the 2007 playoffs. He was miffed in Detroit because he was blamed for not being a cost merited player in the postseason. Back? Sergei, sure. Shanahan? Forget it.

I thought it was interesting that you said "Pens fans won't be classiest for long." That would imply that they were, or more specifically, are. Neither statement is true. I am so sick of reading "waa waa obstruction" stuff on the Pens boards. Dummies, it's not obstruction if you skate to the area of the ice first and make a guy take the long way around you. It's obstruction if you alter your course just to impede someone's progress.

Duemig is a moron. I live in Tampa too. In November, he said that Tampa (the Lightning) was the best team in the Eastern Conference and strong Cup contenders. I guess Cup Contenders finish 30th in the league. The only reason the bolts weren't lower is there aren't more teams. I e-mailed him and we got into an argument about how he thought Johan Holmqvist was the next Dominik Hasek. Literally. He used Hasek as an example and tried to tell me that Holmqvist was the next big thing. I guess big things get traded to Dallas and ride the pine pony. I stopped taking anything he said seriously after that.

Pelto has sour grapes because he was up for a job in Detroit but didn't get it. I like how every argument he makes takes about 10 seconds to pick apart (ie, Mike Illitch doesn't spend on the Tigers). It's cute how he uses 1960 as a reference year. We live in the past? How bout we use, uh, 1990 as a reference year? How many Cups has Montreal, the Rangers, the Bruins, the Leafs, or the Blackhawks won combined since then? 2? And the Wings? Soon to be 4. He's in Kansas City-- I mean-- can you blame him for his intense dislike of a real sports town? What a dips***.

Sorry Eva, sometimes people are just wrong. In this case, you are. By coming up with dumb explanation after dumb explanation, you take away from your hockey credibility.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/recap?gid=2008021005 Yes, O'Hallaran was the Anaheim waive-off as well. Can someone seriously break his legs?

On the penalty front, yikes. How is it that Morrow can hold Lebda's stick and Dallas scores, yet McCarty gets called for the hold on Modano? How is it that Maltby hits Norstrom maybe 1 second late, and gets called, but Ott can run Datsyuk after a whistle and gets nothing?

No ***** Ribeiro after 5-2. What a joke Dallas is.

Ok, even buying the bulls*** logic that Osgood intended to tap Ribiero and that was warranted, I'd be curious to see the Versus reaction if anyone had taken a swing like that at the piece of s*** in the Dallas net after his antics tonight: Ten game suspension! Remove Detroit from the league! Re-institute Anaheim in the playoffs! BTW, is it just me, or does Marty Turco look like a fat mechanic?

Is it just me, or shouldn't someone experiencing "headaches since the beginning of the Colorado series" been checked for concussion, oh, during the damn week off between series? Who dropped the ball on this one?