RedWingAbner

You obviously don't know that Ryan Kesler, at the conclusion of his rookie contract, signed an offer sheet with Philly for $1.9 M, 1 year. Vancouver matched. So, to recap, he played out his rookie deal...ala Filppula....signed with Philly for $1.9 M, which Vancouver matched....then signed for $1.75 M per season for three years. I guess if I was relying on a website to do the work for me, I'd miss that too. What exactly did I miss? I wasn't trying to imply that those would be the ONLY moves made. Retaining Hossa would require moving roster players--as Holland said prior to the end of last season. I'm not saying Flip is the only reason we didn't sign Hossa. I agree that is preposterous.

Ryan Kesler at $1.75 as an offer sheet match contract, please.

No. At the conclusion of that additional deal, the Wings would re-evaluate and Nick Lidstrom would decide if he was coming back. Then, you go forward on a possible longer-term deal. And honestly, I would trade Flip away to keep Hossa for one more year. Is there a button we can push to do that?

Not really. He's already but up 34 goals in a season. Cap hit is what matters when determining the roster. Other than that, I tend to agree with your post. However, I think that if the Wings signed Hossa to another short-term deal (1 year at 6, perhaps) it would be Flip, Bertuzzi, Williams gone.

With Zetterberg ($6), Franzen ($3.95), Datsyuk ($6.7), and Hossa ($5), you have $22 million invested. With Zetterberg ($6), Franzen ($3.95), Datsyuk ($6.7), Filppula ($3), and Cleary ($2.8), you have about $22.8 million invested. Which grouping would you rather have?

Good point.

That's an interesting point to know. I think it shows how minimal PPTOI really means--just produce! Hudler is an amazing example of it, still managing to do what he did. Samuelsson has completely proven to me that he was more valuable than we thought.

Why do we know, definitively, the Hossa has no loyalty? Does Kovalchuk have no loyalty because he wouldn't re-up with Atlanta? What does he owe Pittsburgh? Detroit? It's hard to say he's disloyal when put into situations where the writing was on the wall. Pittsburgh knew he was a UFA. Detroit knew he was probably a one-and-done.

Wasn't he on Filppula's line for stretches here? The same production dip happened to Bertuzzi when his minutes/center changed. Maybe Flip is a good set-up man, but maybe he just has more chemistry with other guys. I don't think even the most ardent Sammy bashers would say he couldn't score. He just didn't do it enough (here) + looked worse when compared to players like Franzen, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Hossa......

Exactly. Also, since Hossa was under 35 when he signed that deal, if he retired before its conclusion, the cap hit disappears. It'll be interesting to see what happens with it.

My point, again, is that Franzen put up 27, then 34 goals and is being paid $3.95 million. Filppula, at his highest, has put up 40 POINTS. In a season. No projection involved there. Your statistics argument was a good one. I said as much. There are quite a few players who earn a similar salary yet are 40 point players. Still, you also have guys like Franzen who are 30 goal scorers who make $3.95 M. In that context, if we could drop Flip and get a guy who CAN/HAS put up more than 19 goals in a season, I'd say do it. You call me out for ignoring arguments and you do it yourself. In the hopes of civility, I asked that we get past this and simply stated my opinion. Your obsession with me is in some ways flattering, though.

Rehashing the old argument. Fun. You conviently ignore my post about Franzen's accomplishments in the recent past. We could sign 20 goalies to agreeable contracts but it wouldn't do the team much good. Neither does Filppula even when using statistical analysis to say he is worth $3M. It's not what the team needs. Continuing to ignore you. He attributes a quote to me I never said. And Franzen, in ten games, is nipping on Filppula's heels in terms of goals scored.

Yes, I remember saying that--never. I do remember Johan Franzen scoring 27 and 34 goals in consecutive seasons and putting up 13 in the 08 Cup run. It not much of a financial jump from Flip ($3M cap hit) to Franzen ($3.9M cap hit). The difference between the two is Franzen isn't being paid on potential. To pull up an injured player's goal total and twist my words to make it seem like Franzen is comparable to Filppula is stupid. Can we not go down this road again? Can we just settle on you love Filppula, I apparently hate him because I criticize keeping him, and everyone can focus on the actual subject of the thread?

As one of the board's resident Filppula haters (I've accepted the brand), this is the kind of thing that drives me up a F***ing wall. So, after 9 NHL seasons, THEN we will understand why we are paying a 3rd line center the money we are and sacrificing the ability to get other guys to do it? I could be, and would love to be, SOOOOOOOOOO wrong on Filppula. If I am, mark my words, I will start an "I was wrong on judging Filppula post" and will bring a sign to the Joe (or wherever the Wings are then) that says "Highlights, I apologize." Unfortunately, the Filppula love on this board is measured at a completely different standard than any player I've ever seen. Ericsson has a horrid season? He's done. Filppula tops out at 40 points as a career high in 3 NHL seasons? Superstar. He gets knocked off the puck and makes silly defensive errors? Not noticed-- he's awesome defensively. I'd love to be the agent for Justin Abdelkader or Darren Helm right now. "Well, if we are paying players on potential, Kenny, you owe my boy Darren a 5 year deal at $3.5 million. He may win the Selke someday." /rant. We've had our discussions on him in the past, and I don't want to rehash those. I think that it will save myself, ZD+C, Datsyukiandeke, and FinnishWing the time instead of going back and forth. The above rant is just my opinion in response to your original post.

Edit: Re-read your post and I agree with you. It'd be great if Bertuzzi actually took a lesser salary (along with Lidstrom) in the hopes of building a winner in the summer.

Filppula has the potential to win it for the next ten years consecutively. Give someone else a chance this year, I say.

Someone said something about ridiculous lengths a while back. I can't find an example of that anywh....nevermind. In all seriousness, Filppula will never be better than Hossa unless we are talking about Marcel.

This is my view as well.

Actually, in real life, I'm Andrew Ladd. I am starting to warm to him. He's a great set-up man.

Didn't say a GM has nothing to do either. But riddle me this, Batman....how is it that most of our gems come from Europe and are scouted almost exclusively by Andersson? Yeah, GMs have something to do with scouting, but with them, it's day-to-day operations including signings/trades. The roster that they have based on drafting is less about the GM than it is about scouting. So, with Holland, you have a core of guys-- Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Holmstrom, Franzen, Kronwall, Filppula, Lidstrom et all-- that are picked by Hakan Andersson. Holland is the guy who has brought in Williams, Eaves, Bertuzzi, Lebda, etc. Other players-- Draper, Maltby-- have been here longer than he's been the GM.

Again, it's not just a GM that makes a Cup winner. I made this point in another thread that Holland has been very lucky to A) inherit the team he did and B) have Hakan Andersson as his scout and C) have Mike Ilitch as his owner in the pre-cap world.

If this is all that happened, I am partly encouraged by the fact that our Western rivals didn't do much.

I'm not. Trying to find rationale like yours is cherry-picking. Regarding drafting, that's scouting, not "gm-ing."

Fair enough. I am just quick to make the proclamation.

Point taken, but there isnt something measureable that we can rank GMs with. Holland is not solely responsible for Cups. Sutter has been in a different position because he doesn't have the scouting dept. that Detroit does. Sutter has had to do more to make it work. Holland has tried to maintain. It's starting now, guys, to show that he's not as amazing as people made him out to be.