haroldsnepsts

I did for the first about the first 25 years of my life. then headed to west to avoid Michigan winters.

I get to watch a fair number of Ducks games (hey, I'm a hockey fan in So Cal, I'll take what I can get) and honestly from what I've seen he does seem like a really intelligent, nice guy. He went to college at Princeton, I think. Sounds like he figured out his way into the NHL is to drop the gloves so he's making the most of it. As much as I hate the Ducks, he's a good character guy I just can't bring myself to hate. socks on a rooster?

I never implied you said "criticism isn't allowed." It's the actions of you and the larger clique that try to shut down criticism by flaming anyone who makes posts that you don't like. Honestly I don't even think you're one of the big offenders, but you did say the team needs better fans, fans that don't overreact at the drop of a ******* hat and told people to calm down, then listed all the things that wouldn't help as if they were fact. Not a huge leap to interpret that as you wishing the suggestions and criticism that's going on lately would stop. There's getting to be more posts here lecturing people about calming down or how they need to be real fans than there is actual talk about the game lately.

is it the mustache?

You know what this site needs? People to stop telling us how to be fans. Perhaps you and Crymson would like to start a Red Wings pep rally site, where it's all rainbows and puppy dogs and never a discouraging word is uttered about the Red Wings. Here you are not a mod, not that criticizing the Wings is actually against forum rules anyway. Speaking for myself, I'm a die hard Red Wings fan, as in fanatic. I've been a fan since the early 80s, when this team flat out sucked. I'm far from a spoiled Wings fan. I love hockey. I love the Wings. I get ticked when they lose. I'd like to discuss it, even if it's critical of the Wings, without someone telling me I'm not a real fan or to calm down. That's great that you're confident the ship will right itself, that doesn't mean that any dissenting opinions should be flamed by the clique here that doesn't condone any criticism of the wings.

Who exactly are you quoting? No one here said that. You're just baiting people and spamming the thread. You may be sick of all the negativity here, but the thing is, you're the most negative person here by a country mile. Read through your posts sometime. In most of them you mock, condescend, judge, and try to shut down the ideas of anyone you don't agree with.

I agree that there's a relatively small percentage of people venting from a loss with things like the "Wings f-ing suck!" But honestly it's much better than it used to be, and there's plenty of hockey talk here that gets bashed and shut down just because it's not popular or it's critical of the Wings. Even if someone proposes a radical move, like trade Cleary, hell even trade Datsyuk, that's a legitimate hockey opinion and worth discussing, no matter how much the idea of trading those guys may offend Wings fans. Demoting someone, even Zetterberg to the 4th line is hockey talk. They may be outlandish and even foolish ideas, but they're legitimate opinions. People who are generating topics to discuss are the lifeblood of this site. They're not all going to be brilliant, but I'll take them any day over the members (who are not mods) who've made themselves judges of what is and is not acceptable to say about the Red Wings. The people here who spend most of their time shutting down the ideas of other members and mocking them for their suggestions with posts like "OMG WINGS SUCK TRADE EVERYONE!!!" If the Wings have only lost three games but someone wants to suggest radical changes, they should be able to do so without being bombarded by all the sarcastic, ******* responses from the Thought Police here.

+1 This team has some offensive kinks to work out for sure, but it's not like they're losing games 1-0 or 1-2. 7 goals to Washington, 4 goals to the lowly Bluejackets, and while 3 goals to the Sharks isn't terrible, Jimmy had to make some huge stops and the Thornton breakaway was a killer. If they get the defensive system sorted out, this team can be scary good again.

Nice try what? He never said Cleary sucks. how exactly am I being absurd? I'm not ripping on Cleary. He's just been injured a lot. Whether it's luck or how they play, some guys just have those kind of careers. And his style of play takes a lot of wear and tear on the body, especially as he gets older. 2011/02/02 Missed 14 games (broken left ankle). 2010/12/27 Broken left ankle, sidelined indefinitely. 2010/04/04 Missed 4 games (groin). 2010/03/27 Groin, day-to-day. 2010/03/24 Missed 2 games (groin). 2010/03/22 Groin, day-to-day. 2010/01/07 Missed 12 games (separated shoulder). 2009/12/10 Separated shoulder, mid-January. 2008/11/28 Missed 8 games (left eye injury). 2008/11/11 Left eye injury, day-to-day. 2008/03/25 Missed 19 games (broken jaw). 2008/03/11 Signed by the Detroit Red Wings to a five-year contract extension. 2008/02/09 Broken jaw, early April. 2007/03/22 Missed 11 games (knee injury). 2007/02/24 Knee injury, day-to-day. why don't you actually address what I said? I never stated the Wings get rid of old players so Cleary's time is almost up. Obviously they don't. The point was pretty clearly tied to his injury history and style of play. Yet again, you twist it into another argument to mock and condescend. I don't need to go back and re-read. I read it correctly the first time without overreacting like you did. You were going off about him saying "He sucks!!!" There's a big difference. Funny how you didn't respond to the point that every quality you listed about Cleary actually make him good trade bait. Do you ever actually talk about hockey instead of just mocking other people's posts?

He never said Cleary sucks. He said Cleary hasn't looked good in a while, but I guess it's easier to mock him when you put words in his mouth. And all the qualities you listed about Cleary are what would make him valuable trade material. Due to his fearless style of play, he is injury prone and at 32 years old probably doesn't have a lot of years left in him. I wouldn't want to get rid of him, but it's not outrageous to at least discuss trading him. In the past people would make ridiculous trade suggestions, trying to dump the Wings garbage in return for other team's quality players. Now he gets s*** for suggesting trading someone who might actually have value to another team?

The season is early, but Ericsson is 3rd in shorthanded TOI behind Kronwall and Stuart. If he's playing well overall (which I think he's been a solid pairing with Kindl), that's more valuable than Kindl. Though I guess Commodore could potentially pick up those PK minutes from E. Hmm, I may have just talked myself out of my own argument. Either way I think the Kindl-Ericsson pairing has looked surprisingly solid. The idea of that pairing scared the crap out of me at the beginning of the season. It'll be interesting to see how Commie works his way in.

Honestly when they're performing I think this team has a lineup that is capable of beating any team in the league, including San Jose. Obviously no team is going to win every game, but the last couple seasons it's been such a huge difference night to night as to which Red Wings team shows up. I don't know. Maybe I'm overvaluing the Wings and can't accept that San Jose is simply a better team. I can accept that maybe they won't have the goalscoring they once did, but the Wings haven't been excelling in areas where they should, like team defense. With a coach like Babcock and forwards like Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Flip, and Helm playing with defenseman like Lidstrom, Kronwall, White, and Stuart, along with Jimmy in net, they should be able to get it pretty locked down defensively throughout the season. And as we know, they were awful in GAA last season. The Kings are my second favorite team, and they had great team defense last season, with a much less talented lineup than Detroit. They're a much more physical, grinding, dump and chase team though. I wonder if the puck possession system just doesn't work because the Wings don't have as much top end talent. So they're adjusting to a new style.

This is worth repeating. It was bounces. It was the refs. It was that the other team was lucky enough to be healthy. Strange how those are never factors for the other team losing a playoff series to the Wings. This place has gotten ridiculous. Are we no longer allowed to be unhappy with the way the Wings are playing, unless they're dead last or something? Even when people here criticize the Wings, at least they are actually talking about hockey in a hockey forum, rather than making all the sarcastic and trolling posts that the "real" fans here do. It's three losses. People want to discuss it. The sky is not falling, but as I said in another thread, with this talented of a roster the Wings will almost certainly make the playoffs, so the prevailing question for the season is "what is different this year? have they improved enough to get past the Sharks?" It's early yet, but people are looking for a sign that this isn't the same team as last season that took nights off and isn't solid defensively. More talk about hockey. Less talk about what kind of fan people should be.

Hmm, I guess when you put it that way, I don't have anything that can compare to that. So it's probably a good thing I'm not making $3+ million a year in the NHL. And you left off a couple stats. 98 points in 347 NHL games and a career -22. Plus minus is a somewhat weak stat, but last year on the Hawks he was a -13 with the next closest player being Nick Leddy at -3, the net closest forward was Brower at -2. The top forward being Toews at +28. When your +/- is that far down the s***ter on your team, it probably does indicate something. For the record I don't hate Kopecky. I'm just baffled by the fortunate opportunities he keeps getting based on his career to date. Maybe he'll live up to that contract. Who knows.

All you have to do to get an A on your jersey is take a beatdown from Beauchemin?

I'd probably pick the same Stevie season as Eva did, but since that's been mentioned I'll go with Bob Probert of 1987-88 season. (See his stats below in my sig)

That's awesome. and probably true. Kopecky has done so little but been given so much. It's bizarre.

I seriously can't think of another hockey player who has had the good fortune that Kopecky has. Cleaning up scraps on the Hossa line in Chicago, then the ridiculous contract in Florida. Now alternate captain???

I don't know where you get that the entire premise of his post was based on the two losses. He clearly refers to the problem going back 2 to 3 years. These two losses just highlighted that problem. The most radical action he mentions in the post is scratching Bert and Z. For the record, I agree with you in that I don't think radical action is called for at this point. But how long did it take to actually say that instead of people just saying things about how he's a bad fan or pointing out that we're 5 and 2? People claim he's being reactionary to the losses, but at the same time they're being reactionary to his post (because he committed the sin of criticizing the Wings) without even actually addressing what I think is a legitimate point he raises, even if I don't agree with his proposed solution. And because the Wings are so successful, I think practically every point made in this forum during the season is with an eye looking to the postseason. Looking to see what has changed or what needs to change that will get them deeper into the playoffs. Of course as fans we're happy that they're not a s*** team. But we want them to beat those flopping fish in San Jose.

People can focus on this topic coming up after the two losses, as if people are freaking out because the Wings won't win every game this season, but they're overlooking or ignoring how pissed Babcock was at his team for their lack of effort the last two games. Seems to me that's worth talking about. It's not just a reaction to the 2 in the loss column. It was a piss poor effort and our star players haven't looked good. I'm not worried about a couple losses, but I don't think it's an outrageous concept to be looking at the team and the implications deeper into the season and things that need to change. This is a hockey forum after all. I guess we're supposed to wait until the Wings having a losing record or get knocked out of the playoffs before we can say anything critical? Like I said, a forum full of "it's okay guys! We'll get 'em next time!" is not only dull, it's not actually discussing hockey. It's just a pep rally. I think this has been quoted once already, but is worth repeating. http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2011/10/red_wings_mike_babcock_still_s.html

I don't know what they expect from Luongo. He's only making $6.7 million this year. He's not going to perform at the level of the $10 million goalie he was last season, especially in the playoffs.

At the same time, people seem to think questioning lack of effort means the OP is saying "being 5 and 2 sucks!" His original post was mostly about lack of effort. Yet most of the responses were essentially "we're 5-2. Shut the F up!" and basically ignoring what I think is a relevant point regardless of their record. Made even more relevant based on Babcock's reaction to last night's game. It seems like most people reacted to the post title (which was probably poorly chosen) and not the content of his actual post.

Me too. Those were the days before the thought police started patrolling.* The only players acceptable to rip on are Ericsson and sometimes Hudler. Osgood used to be fair game too but sadly he retired. I understand that no one wants a forum of mindfly's around here, but there's still constructive talk to be had when the team doesn't play well, even if it's critical. A forum full of "Holland is great! Babcock is great! The Wings are great! I'm sure it'll get better!" doesn't interest me much. I don't think a trade is necessarily a solution, but Babs was obviously pissed by the players lack of effort last night. We're not imagining it. The first couple seasons Babcock had guys working hard and doing all the little things right. Maybe the novelty of his message is wearing off. I certainly wouldn't want to get rid of a coach as great as Babs and am not suggesting that, but complacency has been a repeating theme with this team the last couple seasons. Franzen just about openly says he gets bored with the regular season. EDIT: and yes I know the team is 5-2. I'm not saying the Wings are doomed. It's obviously early in the season and on paper they're off to a great start. But doesn't "lack of effort" and phrases like it from the coach and players sound really familiar from last season? More than thinking it's a fatal flaw, it's a worry from me that things haven't changed. *I'm not referring to the moderators

Quiet you! Lidstrom will play forever!

Great signing. When Schneider left, Holland had to scramble and managed to bring in Rafalski, which was a big plus for the team. Now with Raf's surprise retirement, he manages to bring in White.