haroldsnepsts

Honestly I don't think his pk value is that high on the wings just because we have so many forwards who can do it. Helm, Eaves, Abby, Cleary, Dats, Flip, Zetterberg. And Nystrom plays the pk too. Not that I think they absolutely should pick up Nystrom, but I think there's validity to having someone who could do a lot of what Miller does but also provides some more toughness "to keep the flies off" as Babcock puts it. I think Miller was a very redundant signing when they locked up Eaves. Plus when the enforcer debate rears it's ugly head, people opposed to it always ask who is out there that Holland could've signed. This is a good example.

Apparently Martin had agreed to donate his brain to research like Probert had. They found brain damage similar to the other former nhl players brains they've studied. His only known concussion was in 1977 when his head hit the ice while not wearing a helmet. I don't want to turn this thread into a concussion debate. I just thought this was relevant to the thread and surprising. http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/7065080/ex-buffalo-sabres-great-rick-martin-had-damage-consistent-cte

Dude. With this thread, you might as well have put out a bat signal for Eva.

Great video. That's the thing, it's not about removing hitting from the game. In the past players would almost always let up in those situations highlighted in the video. But over the years there's been a new breed of player. Guys like the Matt Cooke's, Raffi Torres, Tootoo's, who make their living running guys in vulnerable positions. Over time it became an acceptable part of the game. You can get the headhunting out of the game and still leave plenty of opportunities for crushing hits.

There isn't any. McSorley was giving more than a tap, but I do believe it was intended for Brashear's shoulder. He clipped him in the head, knocking him unconscious, then Brashear fell to the ice. McSorley still deserved a stiff suspension, but because Brashear hit his head on the ice when his helmet came off and I think may have had a seizure, I can't remember for sure, it looked even worse than the Bert's suckerpunch on Moore. And honestly McSorley was at the end of his career, so the lifetime ban is worse than it sounds. It would have likely been more like a year or so, but that was about all he had left in his playing career. Between the two, Bert's is clearly worse. Even if you don't think he was swinging at the head, this was McSorley trying to goad Brashear into the fight at that moment. Bertuzzi's suckerpunch was calculated revenge that had been brewing for days, with threats being made in the media.

Have some links to back up this claim? Three years after the incident he still suffered from symptoms and couldn't train fully. http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=2791699 That put him at 28 years old. So we're talking about a 3rd or 4th liner who didn't get much NHL experience before the injury, is now 28, and has a medical history of a broken neck and severe concussion. Not exactly an attractive candidate for most teams, even if he was healthy. Burke offered him a minor league contract, but Moore was apparently still medically unfit to play. And that was more of Burke being an ******* and positioning himself for lawsuits than any actual offer. There's no way of knowing how long Moore's NHL career could have been. But what's clear is that Bertuzzi is the one who erased that opportunity.

Yup. But apparently Vancouver wasn't satisfied because Cooke didn't lay much of a beatdown on Moore, so when they were getting blownout late in the game Todd was sent out for more revenge. Many people also don't know or forget that the two teams had played each other once already after the Naslund hit. But it was a tight game late in the season, in Colorado, and Bettman and Campbell were in attendance. Strange how there was not retribution from Vancouver that game.

Shanny said in the ruling (and in my opinion the replay confirms) that the toe drag didn't significantly change the head position or direction he was skating. Agreed. Right now it may seem like the sky is falling, but hockey is an evolving thing. There'll be a rough adjustment period but I think they'll figure out a level that keeps players safer without ruining hitting.

It's not about whether or not he could've stayed on his feet, it's that he didn't even try to keep playing. He stopped playing hockey as he fell to the ice, making no attempt to keep his balance or get back up or see where the play was going, and had his arms out already pleading to the ref. The fact that he has the presence of mind to plead to the ref as he falls tells me all I need to know about where his head was at and how bad this "headshot" actually was. It's not like he fell to the ice, saw the ref wasn't calling a penalty, then got up with his arms out in disbelief. He threw his arms over his head before he could've possible known if it was called a penalty or not, so he was trying to make it look much worse than it actually was. That's a dive. And that's what every one of those clips in the video was.

Which is what's so disappointing about it. Hockey for the most part has been free of most the crap that I don't like about other pro sports. Diving. Massive egos. unbelievable (and sometimes illegal) activities by players outside of the game.

Wasn't the final one from taking a slapshot to the head?

Actually there is a way I can think he dove. You can state your opinion as fact, but it doesn't make it one and it doesn't negate my opinion either. You may call it embellishment. Like I said, then it becomes a semantics argument. I would call most of these dives, even though many do start with contact from an opposing player. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urIlWcdT6i4 Players should play the game and let the refs worry about the penalty. If it were an actual hard hit to the head, the last thing Abby would think to do is turn and plead to the ref as he's falling. To me, diving implies he didn't make any effort to continue playing. Instead letting himself fall and throwing his arms in the air for even more drama.

I guess it comes down to semantics at some point. He was contacted in the head, yes, but he also stopped skating and fell down, arms spread, already pleading to the refs for a penalty. In my book that's a dive, and it's disappointing to see a Wings player doing that. Watching the replay a few times, you can clearly see the delay between when Abby gets hit, and when he throws his arms up over his head. Not sure why you'd do that when you get in the head, unless it was to make it look worse than it was. The natural reaction is to grab your head, or at least try and keep skating, if you're interested in playing hockey and not diving.

Semin is a disgrace. It looked like his elbow might have grazed him in the neck or shoulder area, but that hardly looked like a headshot. It's not more of a problem than head hits, but it definitely makes me worry for things to come, given Abby's flop and now this.

Since it's another thread on lines, I thought I'd at least try and make it relevant. Homer to play on 4th line Holmstrom will be on the 4th line and a PP specialist.

No kidding. It's the best thing I've seen from him in that department. Laying the crosschecks on when guys stake their territory in front of the crease, keeping them away from Howard after the play so they don't pull any crap. It's exactly what the Wings have been lacking from their blueline. Making guys pay a price for standing in front of the net. If he keeps that up and keeps playing more like he did tonight, he may have a chance at earning this contract. He was a little too aggressive with the stretch pass, but better he tests the waters in the preseason. And Nyquist looked friggin awesome for a rookie. Is there really a chance he won't make the lineup? The only memorable mistake was the backhander at the end of the game, but that's something he'll learn from. Kindl looked good out there on the power play. As he gets more comfortable I could see him picking up a lot of PP minutes. It'd be nice to have another option out there. Hudler started slow but had some good shifts out there with Flip. He still needs to shoot the puck more instead of passing though, even in the preseason. Start getting those goals Hudlum. EDIT: Just read the update on Nyquist going to the minors. I can see letting him develop some more, but on a lot of teams he'd be in the lineup. He certainly earned a chance with his preseason play.

The same could be said for Brendan on his hit. He threw a shoulder that only contacted the head. And I can say 100 times that Brendan intended to hit Ben in the head. It doesn't make it true. To be clear I don't think Brendan intended to hit Ben Smith's head. And with MacArthur if anything he showed a lot of intent of hitting Abby late, but I can't see much that shows he clearly intended to hit Abdelkader in the head. Like I said, he could've pulled a Matt Cooke on him. It looks like he let up. Abby had his back to the play and was turning up ice with his head low, which is when MacArthur hit him. There seems to be a lot of hypocrisy regarding these hits, depending on what sweater the player is wearing. I didn't see any ref with his hand up for the hit. And in the box score they have Abby with two for cross checking and MacArthur with two for high sticking. That was the altercation after the play.

So apparently when you're wearing a Red Wings sweater, you have no responsibility for keeping your head up. But if you're in an opposing team's sweater, it's just unfortunate contact and you should have your head up? Abby's head was much lower than Ben Smiths was, he turned with his back to MacArthur and skated for the puck, putting himself in that low of a position. Then on top of it, he dove. MacArthur could've brained Abby if he wanted to. Yes he contacted the head, but it looked to me like he let up. There wasn't even a penalty called on the play. It should've been maybe been 2 for a late hit, then 2 on Abby for diving.

Wow. Great move by Nyquist. And they hit what, two friggin posts before the goal on that series?? What a shift.

It's a little worrisome that Dats has a stiff back headed into the season. Groin pulls and things like that seem more common when they start playing, but not so much the back.

The answer is likely yes, but Babcock needs to watch some replays before he starts to sound like Quennville out there, calling every hit the worst he's seen.

I'm disappointed in Abby. Honestly MacArthur was acting like a ******, but he actually could've cranked Abby in the head but seemed to let up. Abdelkader's flop only justifies the fears of people criticizing Shanny's suspensions. They need to eliminate headhunting from the game. But they don't need to add guys exaggerating blows to the head to draw a penalty.

Exactly. It sounded to me like they could've signed Doughty a few weeks ago if they agreed to the shorter term he wanted. The sticking point was coughing up the extra money to get him for a few more years.

If they're going to take a serious look at fighting in the NHL, I'm glad a guy with 90+ NHL fights in his career will be heading it up.

Agreed. People can talk about the toe drag, but the video pretty clearly shows that move mostly only changed the position of the puck and Smith's feet. His head, speed, and body were mostly traveling the same route. Yes, Ben should've had his head up, but that still doesn't make it legal to hit him only in the head. People can lament the days of hard hitting being gone, but checking is about hitting the body. That's still legal. Over the years some players have just forgotten how to do it properly (or never learned) and have been getting away with flying shoulders and elbows and leaving their feet.