haroldsnepsts

I didn't say he shouldn't be blamed for his failures on the ice. What I actually said is he shouldn't be blamed for Detroit's defensive aging core and Holland not making bigger moves to replace it. He's just one player and is only responsible for his performance. Though I have no idea why you'd think it, even from that Bleacher Report article (which is basically a blog by a Wings fan, isn't it?), but if you seriously thought Ericsson was going to be a cross between Lidstrom and Kronwall, I can understand why you'd be disappointed. I've stated my case. If you've actually read my posts, I think I've given a fair assessment of Ericsson and am not pinning it on some grand hopes he'll improve one day. But you've misrepresented so many of my points here it's not really worth continuing. You hate Ericsson to an irrational degree. You're in good company here.

I'll probably try to focus on Clowe and Kesler and pretend many of the other players don't exist. It'll be interesting to see if the top stars on both teams remain invisible this series, or if they start earning their paychecks. (yes I know they don't technically get paid for the playoffs)

That's what I wonder, because after the craptacular season he had last year, I can't see Holland offering him that much. If anything his value went up this season because he stabilized his game. So I'm guessing the Wings made the offer sometime this season? But even then, $2 mill sounds like too much. Agreed. I'd be shocked if he got more than $2 mill on the open market. As for Draper, I've been a big fan over the years, and he had a pretty good season. But it's time. Yes he still does things that have value, but not enough to set himself apart from guys who are younger and have more upside.

Your logic is flawed. Detroit relies on their defenseman greatly to move the puck up ice more than most teams. It's why they have guys like Lids, Rafalksi, Kronner, and yes, Ericsson. They may not be holding on to the puck as long, but they're making a lot of passes out of their own end under high pressure situations. Having to make a tough breakout pass that often is going to lead to turnovers. In the regular season, 4 of the 5 players with the most turnovers were Rafalski, Ericsson, Stuart, and Kronwall. The fact that Lids is so far down the list is just another reason why he's so damn good. Ericsson was brought up to be like Pronger? Where did you get that idea? That may have been your expectation of him, but I never heard any coach or scout thinking he could be Pronger. As I said in my other post, a knock against him has always been not using his size well enough and not having mean streak. And did you really just compare Rafalski to Ericsson? If you expect E to come anywhere close to Rafalski in points, it's no wonder you hate him.

By who? Who said that he would be the next Lidstrom who hits like Kronwall? I never heard anyone say anything even close to that about him. Babcock called him a stud in one quote, but that's about it. Even in Grand Rapids they were saying he needed to bulk up and play with a mean streak. Eeven among his supporters I don't remember anyone here ever saying he'd be a Lidstrom with Kronner's hitting. Actually, anyone comparing any d-man on the Wings to Lids AND Kronner would get laughed at, for starters. I couldn't find the Red Wings prospect review, but on hockeys future they said he could develop into a #4-6 D-man, which still sounds about right. http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/jonathan_ericsson Exactly what point of yours does his being drafted last prove? My point was it should give some indication of expectations for him, or how the fact he's in the lineup at all is a win for the Wings. Emotional needs for him to play well? I'm not sure what you're referring to. You seem to be the one who has a lot more emotions involved when it comes to Ericsson. I have talked about Ericsson's upsides in several posts. His biggest asset to the team is probably his puck moving ability. Ericsson has a very good first pass. Better than Stuart and Salei. It leads to some brutal turnovers because he doesn't seem to have it between the ears yet. But it's his second full season. I'm guessing Detroit is hoping his decision making will continue to improve and there will inevitably be growing pains as he tries to stretch his role on the team. His size is also an asset. He's not as physical as he should be, but the Wings blueline is undersized and he provides some. He'd be a greater asset if he played nastier. And to be clear, I'm not saying Ericsson is some awesome defenseman. But he's big, somewhat physical, will drop the gloves on occasion, good passer, cheap, relatively young, and could still improve. Put that all together and he's a decent bottom pairing guy. And now you're saying $2 mill to replace him. If we're talking about re-signing E for that, then that does add to potential other D-men out there. I was saying around 1.25 mill. No short memory here. Again, you seem to be angry because Ericsson didn't turn out to be a savior for the Wings defensive corps. I don't think anyone realistically thought he would be that. Everything I saw he was projected to be a #4-6 d'man. If he turns out to be that, it's a win for the Wings. And either way I don't see why Ericsson should take all the blame for not replacing the Wings aging defensive corps. Isn't that Holland's job?

I don't think he was even overpaid at the time of his signing. Sure the term was a little longer than I'd want, but it's likely what Holland had to do to bring him here. He was not in a strong negotiating position. At the end of the 07 season Schneider jumped ship for $5.6 million with Anaheim, leaving a major hole in the Wings defense. Holland was scrambling for a #2 D-man and found Rafalski who similar to Schneider was a puck-moving defenseman good for 40-50 points (which is what Schneider was until he was paired with Nick and had two career seasons), who fit into the defense puck-moving system in Detroit, was younger than Schneider, a two-time Cup winner, and a local boy to boot. Everyone wants to kill Rafalski when he makes a bad turnover, but for every one of those there's the tremendous outlet passes and quarterbacking the power play. More than even Lidstrom, Rafalski stretches the Wings offense and keeps the other teams defense honest. Because skating in front of his own net he's capable of rocketing a pass to a forward headed towards the offensive blueline. Yes the contract looks less good now that we're in the last two years and his play has tapered a bit. But it's unfair to just look at him now and call him overpaid. At the time it was a good signing, and considering how 2008 worked out (and even 2009), it was worth it.

Ericsson still isn't as physical as I'd like, but if we're going to quote hits stat, let's take a more complete look. Ericsson had 107 hits in 74 regular season games, averaging less than 19 min TOI. Kronwall had 113 hits in 3 more games, averaging almost 4 more minutes per game. Salei had 117 and Stuart led the Wings with 131. Lids and Raf both had 49. In the postseason he was second to Kronwall with 23 hits (Kronner had 26). And honestly hits is a pretty suspect stat anyway. Like I said Ericsson needs to play more physical, but using that stat as some negative of his is just looking for things to rip on him about. Because given his ice time, those numbers actually make him look more aggressive than he is.

Who's rationale was that?? He was drafted dead last and is a converted forward just finishing his second full season in the NHL. As I said, he's a serviceable bottom pairing guy. If the Wings can find someone better and cheaper, great. But it's not as easy as people think. It's ridiculous how much hate he gets here as the #5 D-man. There were much bigger issues with the team.

Agreed. I like Zeus, but he's not the type of player the Wings need the most. He's got good size, but is 34, isn't particularly fast and is mostly a good defensive forward who will maybe get you 30-40 points. Tenacious puck pursuer. Good on the PK. He's kind of like a bigger, older Flip.

Wow. Definitely sad. I wonder what happened? IF it turns out to be suicide, I'd bet money post-concussion issues had something to do with it.

Agreed. I try not to get into the debates because he's clearly the whipping boy here at LGW. But he's a fine #5 D man. The Wings paid $1.1 mill for Salei this season, and E ended up playing more minutes than him, and for a while Salei was competing with Kindl for the number 6 spot. I don't know what people expect for a bottom pairing guy. Ericsson was dead last in the draft and is a converted forward. If he makes it as a solid #5 guy, that's a win for the Wings. If he developed into a #4 guy, I'd be ecstatic. If the Wings can sign someone better, so be it. But if they do sign him for $1.25 mill, that's going to be hard to beat. He knows the system and he's a known quantity to the coaches. I don't know how much more upside he has, but he did play a little more physical. He needs to improve there, and figure out how to get his slapshot off much, much quicker.

Honestly I think he just got old and injury prone to play that style anymore. Too bad because I was hoping he would bring some sandpaper to this team.

Exactly. The Sharks have over a third of their payroll tied up in three guys. And in a 7 game series they produce 2 goals and 9 assists. And I'm crazy because I think that's grossly underperforming?

How is it sour grapes? Because I'm not saying everyone on your team is awesome? I haven't said anything about how the wings would've won the series or anything of that sort. I don't know why you keep implying that I'm saying the Wings should've won or that it's sour grapes Of course you could take Heatley and Marleau off the team and the Sharks would still probably win, because those guys weren't a big reason why San Jose won! My point, for the third friggin time, is that the Sharks three star players underperformed, while Clowe and the like were absolute studs. And yes, that includes Jumbo Joe underperforming. Have you guys really lowered your standards that much for him because of his past playoff performances? Of the three, he was the best. But still, in a hard fought fought series against a good team, I would want more points out of him. He's one of if not the franchise player. And the best things you can say about him is he backchecks and he didn't turn the puck over much? As I said in another thread, if at the start of the series someone had told me Thornton, Marleau and Heatley would be kept off the scoresheet in the way that they were, I'd like the Wings chances. But the secondary scoring came through for San Jose in a huge way. Those guys and Niemi were by far the biggest reasons the Sharks won.

Well he's signed through next season, so barring Holland pulling off some great trade or waiving his ass, looks like it's another year of Hudler.

I never said the better team didn't win. "Cute stats?" Scoring points isn't contributing? So a slam dunk goal and a few good defensive plays late in game 7 is worth $6.9 mill? And I see you're starting the revisionist history about Thornton already. He got better as the series went along. Either way when you're the star player and make $7.2 million, contributing usually also involves putting up points. And you have awfully low expectations for Heatley too. There are a lot of guys who are responsible with the puck in their end and can help contain the neutral zone, and they sure don't get paid $7.5 million. I never said the Sharks as a team were bad. It's just that they have guys like Couture, Setoguchi, Clowe and Boyle to thank for winning that series. Because their three star players were busy contributing with "intangibles" instead of on the scoresheet, which last time I checked is how you win games.

I'm guessing that's why Babcock had mixed up the pairings this year. Stuart and Lids never really played particularly well together this season, but it mixes up some size and physicality on the pairings. It's not like the early years when Murphy and Nick could handle the Legion of Doom line by playing the puck and not the body. It's been a continuing strategy for the Wings with having guys like Schneider and now Raf on the top pairing, but the reality is that Lids and Rafalski are getting up there in years and have lost a step, so against a team like San Jose it would be too hard to battle around the net. Stuart and Kronwall can hold their own fairly well. Assuming we keep Ericsson he still needs to play more physical. More like he did in the first round. And Salei has apparently stopped playing with an edge. Kindl's got good size, but it'd be nice to have someone big that will really make guys pay around the Wings net.

I used to be a fan, but I'm so over Joe Thornton. Especially after hearing the post game interviews of him. Hearing him say how they don't care what people are saying, they knew they could do it. blah blah blah. Thornton, Heatley, and Marleau account for almost $22 million of cap space. Marleau had one point. (Who cares if it's the series winner. Had he showed up earlier there wouldn't have been a game 7) Heatley had a goal and three assists. Thornton had zero goals and 6 assists. 4 of which came on the power play. Those guys were carried by players like Couture, Setoguchi and Clowe. (Guys who really stepped up their game in the postseason (If you're keeping score those guys together eat up less than $7 mill cap space). So it was a little hilarious to here Joe going on about how he believed. I guess the part he wasn't saying was he believed "that my teammates would save my ass." How about throwing some more love to the guys who carried you Joe?

Mostly this. The media is probably already writing the revisionist history about how good Thornton was most of this series, but the big guns on San Jose - Thornton, Marleau and Heatley didn't do much. Pavelski too, who I feel is often a Wings killer, was pretty quiet. At the beginning of the series if you had told me those guys were limited to as few points as they were, I would definitely have liked the Wings chances. But Clowe, Setoguchi, and Couture stepped up big time. Boyle too. Other than Thornton's faceoffs, those other guys were the heart of that team against Detroit. Franzen, Bert, Cleary, Hudler were too injured and/or could not compete at that level. Datsyuk and Zetterberg can only do so much. It also shows that regular season wins do matter when they give away what should be easy points. If the Wings had picked up one more win in the regular season, they would've had home ice against the Sharks. Not sure how much of a difference it would've made, but it wouldn't have hurt. Especially in game 7 when early on they were getting dominated in the faceoff circle.

I'm too tired and drunk to think about who I'd want to acquire, but as for who should go I mostly agree, though honestly I'd keep Flip. I don't know that he'll have a breakout year like everyone hopes, but he's got a lot of great qualities that fit this team. When he's healthy and physical, he's effective. But let's bring an end to the Hudler experiment please. Joey Mac was fine. I could see bringing in some other serviceable backup though too. I'd re-sign Eaves. Miller I could take or leave. And only on LGW could the #5 D-man take most of the abuse in a series. Ericsson's a serviceable bottom pairing guy and they could probably re-sign him cheap. Then it's just a matter of whether Kindl can stop the brainfarts or if they need to get another bottom pairing veteran D-man (not Lilja) and pay to have Kindl watch from the pressbox. But assuming the top 4 stays, the Wings need size on the blueline. If Lidstrom retires, all bets are off and I wouldn't be surprised if Holland tries some crazy s*** in the offseason.

Flyers must love having Boucher in net because it gives them another opportunity to boo something.

And another game 7. Wow.

And the wheels are coming off. I don't really know why they pulled Miller, unless he wanted to come out. It's not like you're saving him for something. Though now 5-0 it's over. I hate Carcillo too. I'm glad that d-bag is in the East.

Hmm. Well there's Vanek. And... Yeah, that's pretty much it.

Carcillo headfaking like he's going to do something to Miller. What is he, 12?