haroldsnepsts

Pens player standing untouched in front of Osgood. That is sooooo last season...

Which was exactly my point.

Jeez, the Wings are playing almost as if this game doesn't mean anything.

I see the new whipping boy has been selected for this regular season. I didn't get to see much of the preseason, but Kindl looked good. and last night it was nice to see Ericsson crosschecking Phaneuf. It was a glimmer of how he should be playing. But the lineups are so jumbled up with regular season and AHL guys on both teams, I don't put much stock in anything until the games count.

Agreed. Campbell's not bad, he's just ridiculously overpaid. That's not his fault.

Agreed. It's like with Shanny. He was far from an enforcer, but he wouldn't hesitate to drop the gloves to stick up for his teammates. As a 39 year old, he fought Brashear after the goon elbowed Jagr and was taking other cheapshots at the Rangers. It was mostly a hugfest and Shanny pretty much lost the fight, but the crowd and his teammates were on their feet applauding. people don't see how that means something? Like when Lappy nailed Lidstrom and then Downey fought him. Same thing. People still talk about it. And it's not just something for the fans. It helps the team. Your captain just got rocked. Imagine if nothing happened and they let the power play be their enforcer. Your team leader had to get helped off the ice and injured his knee. It's demoralizing as a player just like it is as a fan to watch that happen and just take it. While it doesn't prevent it, laying a beating absolutely means something for team morale and chemistry.

The enforcer threads would probably be shorter if you guys didn't chime in with trolling crap like this. And no, I don't want Hordichuk on the Wings.

Kid? He's 28 years old. Which actually makes it worse. He's been in the league long enough and should know better. Taken separately they might let this slide, but considering the pokes to the neck area and then the BC two-hander to the leg, a suspension wouldn't be surprising. It wouldn't be a bad idea for the league to send a message early for that kind of crap.

good hit by Abby. He got there a tad late (not a late hit, but it would've been cleaner had he got to the boards and not got Schenn in the leg). Still a good hip check though, and good to see him sticking up for himself. It just shows what's exciting about Abby, but also how the Wings won't be relying on him for fighting.

I'm not gonna argue that you need an enforcer to win a Cup, but your reasoning doesn't prove anything. Because in your opinion the Wings had a team capable of winning the Cup and they didn't have an enforcer, that somehow proves that you don't need an enforcer to win the Cup?? They didn't win the cup, so it proves nothing. It's all just speculation on your part. Abby is definitely not an enforcer. He's not afraid to muck it up if someone gets after him when he throws a hit, but he can barely handle himself at the NHL level. He's young, so maybe he'll improve, but even then he's not an enforcer. He'll hopefully be a good player who isn't afraid to drop the gloves, which is good. And if you're going back 15 years, there were a number of guys who could fight well. McCarty, Lapointe, Grimson, Shanahan, Kocur, Pushor, Fischer. There's guys on the team from that era who would beat the snot out of anyone on the current Wings roster. And plenty of other guys who would fight on occasion and could handle themselves. So if you're comparing the two eras, it's pretty different now than it was then. The current roster has a few guys who are willing to drop the gloves, but none who are particularly good at it. Bert has probably had his one fight for the season already. Ericsson rag dolling a gutless puke like Perry does not make him a good fighter. Then there's Abby, Eaves, Cleary. Last season the Wings had 19 fights. 10 of which were from Brad May. If Holland knows what he's doing and apparently doesn't believe in enforcers, it's odd how he keeps trying to add guys like May and Downey to the lineup. And as I said before, it's ridiculous to measure adding an enforcer against whether that one element will win us the Cup. Hockey is obviously a more complex game than that. And this is pretty much the only debate that the standard for adding that kind of player is there has to be definitive proof it will lead the Wings to the Cup. It's absurd. He absolutely was. It's not a coincidence that his level of agitating dropped off as those guys were no longer on the team.

Ouch. It is a tough break for Campbell. The collar bone last season, now this to start off the new season. I guess he can take some consolation in the fact he's grossly overpaid. He'll be well paid for rehabbing that knee.

This is what drives me nuts about the enforcer arguments. Where has anyone ever said something close to that in a serious fashion? It's a straw man that only exacerbates the arguing. you can say you're kidding, but that argument constitutes half your post. Seems a bit much if you're being sarcastic. There is a legitimate issue and difference of opinion here that you would think would be possible to debate. Aside from the things you mention, like providing energy by hitting, enforcers can also provide energy and improve team morale by laying a well timed beat down. Or even just sticking up for a teammate who got cheapshotted. That means something to players. It's been said over and over again by players throughout the league over the years. They like when someone has their back or helps keep the flies off. Another benefit is that guys often will play bigger if there's guys on the team who will drop the gloves and stick up for them. Non-fighters become more willing to muck it up and throw the extra hit. You can see it at even the more casual levels of sports. If the game is getting physical, you're more likely to get into it if there's someone on your team who can help handle things when it gets heated. The big question is if that's worth a roster spot for a guy like Downey who can't do much else. In Downey's specific case, I don't think it is worth it. But the enforcer debate is not about whether or not they're the missing piece to the team winning the Cup. or at least it shouldn't be since most issues here aren't weighed in that context. Will pairing Ericsson with Lidstrom win us the Cup? Will keeping Miller or Ritola win us the Cup?

The enforcer debates get ridiculous because it gets so overstated by both sides. Of course an enforcer is not going to somehow guarantee you'll go further in the playoffs, or clearly prevent injuries. But the thing is, players and coaches sure seem to like having guys in the lineup who will stick up for teammates and help prevent crap that happens after the whistle "to keep the flies off" as Babcock puts it. It's silly to pretend that's not a facet of the game, and a legitimate one. The ideal is someone who can play and fight, which Downey sure isn't. As I've said before, Holland makes a token gesture to pick a player up off the scrap heap who will fight. those guys are never going to be particularly talented, and likely not even great fighters.

They also had 20 fights last season, so...

What does Datsyuk have to do with this? Of those players taking a significant number of faceoffs, Dats led the team at 55.1% Drapes was good at 52% but only took 319 faceoffs, one more than Abdelkader. Compared to Zetterberg with 1098, Datsyuk with 1070, Helm with 875, and Flip with 573. He's still good at them, but he's not really a key faceoff guy anymore. I honestly don't have much problem with Draper's game. He's still a good 3rd/4th line guy. It's just his contract that's painful. As for penalties, Bert is still king with 80 PIMs and 35 minor penalties. I'm afraid to know how many of those were in the offensive zone.

The only explanation from last week is that the Lions have apparently offended the football gods, and when they almost manage a clutch victory, the gods intervened to crush that hope. I'm not sure what they did to offend them. Maybe hiring Millen? Made a deal with the devil for Barry Sanders that they're still paying for?

All I have to say about the Notre Dame game is: HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!!! I have no ties to Michigan State other than being from the state of Michigan but man it brings me joy watching Notre Dame lose, especially in OT in such heartbreaking fashion. What a ballsy call wow. They were going to make Leinart give back his too, but no one can seem to find him.

Looks good. The only thing that gives pause is Stuart moving to his off side on Defense. As for the Babcock quote, I just took it to mean he wanted the younger defenseman to become better puck movers too and not just rely on the Lids and Raf for the first pass.

I love that they signed Huet and Campbell on the same day a few seasons ago. Really a banner day for Chicago management.

That's what I always assumed it was. For every Wings fan who goes to another site to troll, it probably brings them tenfold to this site. of course Matt can't control what people do on other websites. But I completely understand him wanting to get rid of people here who basically bring a bunch of trolls to his website through their actions.

Luongo being captain was a bad idea whose time had come. I'm hoping there's quotes somewhere that he talks about the good of the team, or even mentions it, in regards to his captaincy. And not just how much fun it was as the reason why it was hard to give up.

I think this is a good assessment. I would add Rafalski, because he has the nerve not to be Nick Lidstrom.

Agreed. I don't think they were overachieving last season. They played about as expected. Johnson is a little overrated in terms of potential I think, but can still be a solid D man if he learns to pick his spots better. and Mitchell is a nice addition if he stays healthy. Them not adding some scoring depth this offseason is a little baffling to me. As for Quick, I think he's a good young goaltender. He got burned out at the end of last season, but they played the kid for 72 games in his second season in the NHL. The year before he got 44 starts. If they can notch back his games some, I think he can be a good solid goaltender for the Kings.

I forget how big Modano is. I always sort of think of him as similar size to Yzerman or Z. hopefully he's got some gas left in the tank and can do something special this season.

Wings vs. Leafs. Granted it would require hell freezing over first, but I can dream. It'd sure be good for the NHL.