haroldsnepsts

Many argue that adding a little bit of clean water opens up the aroma of the scotch. Now, adding ice to a single malt, that's just plain wrong. As for Nick, honestly I think his chances are slim, not that I don't think he's capable of Norris level of play. But he'd have to be head and shoulders ahead of the pack, because there seems to be Lidstrom-Norris fatigue among voters. I mean, these are the same knuckleheads who think Green is Norris worthy. It'd be awesome if it happened, but I don't hold out hope. Nick probably should have his seventh already (I'm looking at you Rob Blake). If he were born in Canada, there's a decent chance he'd have more than seven.

Again, that's one game. It's a larger problem I noticed a lot last season. Of course they don't have to destroy them. And it's harder to do in the new NHL. But that doesn't mean they should be able to just plant themselves by the far post untouched, which happened often last season.I think Salei will play more than 10 minutes a night. Lebda averaged 13 to 14 minutes a night, and that was Lebda. Lilja averaged between 14 and 17 the last couple seasons. Plus as Babs pointed out, he thinks Salei can handle 20 minutes (not that we'd want him to). It's obviously not a solution, but if he plays that way 14 minutes a night, some of it on the PK, that's an improvement. I honestly am not sure what to say to this. It's certainly been notched back in the new NHL, but it still goes on. Think of what Homer has to deal with every game. And when he does have the puck on his stick it's for less than a second. There's a lot of battling that still goes on and is not called a penalty. What he said.

He's made a great career for himself having fairly limited skills. So he worked really hard and developed an incredibly specific skill set. Redirecting the puck while keeping your ass in the goalies face and getting hacked at by a defenseman. He's been a great Wing, but not a HOF'er.

One 40+ save game means they clear the crease? All I can say is I noticed it a lot last season. Opposing players hanging around our net for easy chip ins or at the very least great scoring chances because no one was making them pay a price for standing there.

I disagree. honestly I'd say they were the victim of exactly that pretty often last season. There were a lot of times the Wings were outnumbered around their own net, and opponents had several good whacks at a loose puck without even being touched. They're taught to do it, but you need a player of size and with some edge to do it well. And honestly I think it is something the Wings are lacking. Lidstrom has compensated for his lack of size with smarts and skill and tying up the stick. No one on the Wings really clears the crease that well except maybe Stuart. Ericsson has the size but doesn't use it well yet. Raf and Kronwall just get overpowered or aren't the one battling in front of the net.

There's definitely an element of people rejecting any other physical defenseman that's been suggested here. Then Kenny does it and he's a genius. Just wait until Salei makes a few turnovers. People here will be lighting their torches. That's not to say Salei is any worse than a bottom pairing guy, but the standard here for D men is often Nick Lidstrom. Which means 99.9% of the dmen in the league must be turnover prone and useless.

I can understand not being overly excited about Salei. But I don't really get wanting Janik, who has barely cracked an NHL lineup, to get time over a guy who is an established NHL defenseman. Janik didn't look awful in the 13 games he was here, but he was still behind Lebda, Ericsson, Lilja and Meech. That must mean something about this guys level of play.

Exactly. While many of these contracts are questionable, and Franzen and Z's are certainly pushing the limit, I don't see how they can go back that far to question these contracts if they didn't at the time. Even if this in no way affected the Wings, I still think it's ridiculous that they would approve them and then essentially change their mind.

I don't know that he's prolific, but it seems he's not bad. In 2009 he had 107 hits and 143 blocked shots in 70 games. Lilja that season had 95 hits and 92 blocked shots in 60 games. Of course, not all hits and blocked shots are equated equal so it's hard to tell from that alone. But it gives hope.

I hear ya. There's definitely nothing more serious than a brain injury, but hockey takes so much core strength that back problems can ruin a guys game too.

That's where I'm at with it. He's basically another Lilja, but for cheaper. so I guess that's good. But instead of Lilja's noggin we've got Salei's wonky back, and he fights just as poorly. I'm also curious if he'll play with as much of an edge on a Wings team that doesn't have as much sandpaper as a team like the Ducks did (which is where he was playing the last time I really saw him play much). Thinking positive, hopefully he'll stay healthy, play with a mean streak, clear the crease and teach Ericsson to do the same. I can't say I'm that excited, but I'm glad Holland made a move so we can cut ties with Meech.

Are people seriously trying to say Forsberg didn't dive? Man how this place has changed. There's a reason we called him Floppa. Granted because he was strong as a bull and it was the clutch and grab era, he often had two players water-skiing off the back of him. Great player. It's a shame he's had all these foot problems bringing the premature end to his career. Minus the nutshot, I don't think he was particularly dirty (Fedorov, Fischer and a handful of other Wings have rearranged guys faces with a crosscheck). Just hated because he was on the Avs. But he absolutely dove.

Good point. I was thinking Miller was a UFA not an RFA. that makes sense. It seemed out of character for Holland to do a sign and trade.

If he gets rid of Miller, it would mean Holland did a sign and trade, which is fairly out of character for the Wings, even for a guy lower on the roster.

While I agree that Raf gets much more grief than he deserves, age is absolutely relevant. Aside from the decline in play, there's the basic fact that they will have to be replaced very soon. Lidstrom signed a one year contract. Clearly he is at or extremely near retirement, and Rafalski isn't too far behind. So in the next couple seasons our top pairing will be gone. Pointing out our top pairing has a combined age of 77 years old is relevant. How exactly am I exaggerating it? Did you read the link? It's not completely clear exactly what Modano's cap hit is, but it sounds like it could be $1.75 mill in addition to bonuses they could slide into next year's cap. That's according to capgeek.com. They have yet to post official and confirmed details. Actually there's a handful of people who've been wanting Mitchell here, back from the last time he was a free agent. I'm not saying he's the be all end all. Actually, I said that in my previous posts if you read them. But people act as if the Modano signing occurred in a vacuum and wouldn't impact anything else. Mitchell is a good example of how signing Modano impacted their potential to sign him. It looks like it's also going to cost us either Ritola or Miller, though I'm less worried about that than our blueline. Stay classy.

Neither. Probie was arguably the greatest enforcer the game has seen and Chelios was a great defenseman, but the Wings have an exceptionally high standard, having only officially retired six numbers in 70+ seasons.

Actually I'm not exaggerating his cap hit to make point. But thanks for assuming you know what I'm thinking. I'm stating his probable cap hit. http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2010/08/even_more_about_mike_modanos_c.html how is adding their age juvenile? We have a 37 year old and a 40 year old on the top line. They are old. That's a fact. Lids is still one of the best of the game, but he's obviously nearing the end of his career and on the decline. Age is absolutely a factor. Sure, if you want to pin it on Lebda, then who's taking his place that's so much better? If you're just going to agree with Babs and Kenny all the time, then why bother coming to a forum where these issues are discussed? I don't think it's the same because they almost certainly were going to be in the lineup headed into this season. Modano was the unexpected addition to the lineup. And Holland wasn't waiting around for them to decide like he was Modano.

I think the combination of being in a holding pattern and the potentially $1.75 million Modano will cost absolutely is a factor in signing someone like Mitchell. The Wings wouldn't be shaping their long term defense around Mitchell. He's 33 years old already which isn't young for a guy who plays the physical game he does. And as you point out, he's got the concussion issue. But like I said, he's a pretty good example of a player out on the market that could help the Wings D, and unless Holland pulls some shrewd moves quick, they have zero shot at him because of the Modano signing. More than specifically Mitchell, it comes back to that a higher priority for the Wings should be shoring up their blueline than signing a Modano. He's a nice addition, but to me our questionable bottom pairing and aging top pairing (with a combined age of 77 years old when the season starts) is more of a priority for the Wings continued success. I know I'm fixated on this issue, but when you talk about team defense with the Wings, the problem isn't the forwards. Zetterberg, Dats, Helm, Cleary, Flip, Eaves, Miller, Draper. That's a lot of defensively responsible forwards. Last season a lot of the problem was the actual defense, particularly around their own net.

I don't think the Wings can afford him anymore. For those who were arguing that the Modano signing in no way affected signing a physical defenseman, Mitchell is a pretty good example of that not being true. They may be able to get a plug, but they sure can't get a guy who could potentially have been in the lineup for a few years and helped stabilize our D when Lids retires. http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2010/08/red_wings_among_teams_interest.html

I just wanted to chime in and say welcome to the boards (or welcome back? after seeing your join date). In the other thread I thought you might be a Hawks troll, but it's good to see fans of other teams making civil and well thought out posts here. Even the much hated Hawks. As I've said before, it's nice to have Chicago be a good enough team to properly despise once again. I've missed that.

If we're talking about 40 year old forwards, I'd take Selanne over Modano in a heartbeat. Wonder how much he's gonna cost the ducks. The guy's been a points machine for a long time now. 48 points in 54 games last season, and the last two times he stayed healthy and played a full season he scored 90+ points. I would've loved to have Teemu on the Wings. Not so much Kariya though.

Agreed. Maybe fun for video games, but bad for the NHL. Simpler is almost always better, and most of these ideas complicate things. Like instead of the stepped down version of OT, just make it 10 minutes of 4 on 4.

ok, here's the source of my misunderstanding. When you said he could handle 27 minutes, I thought you meant "per game." And at those kind of minutes, he would not only be first pairing, he'd be our #1 D-man. My bad. But in my defense, people have said crazier things here, even in this thread. As for handling 27 minutes, that one game doesn't mean as much to me as his overall play last season, which was mostly bad. And I'm an Ericsson fan. I still want to believe that he can live up to the potential he's shown. But after the Ericsson we saw last season, he is absolutely a question mark going into this one. If it were just one of the two guys on the bottom pairing that were unknowns, I'd feel better about it. But if you're talking about E and Kindl, that's two unknowns on our blueline. Could be fine if the Ericsson from before last season shows up and Kindl steps up his game, but it could also be a disaster. I don't think he can get Lilja signed for a cheap 2 way contract. He was making 1.25 mill before and probably wouldn't want a 2 way, unless no other team is interested because of his concussion. I also don't think Lids should be playing 25+ minutes a game. At least not in the regular season. He's Nick Lidstrom, but he's also 40. I think that was part of the drop off we saw the first half of the season. With all the injuries his minutes were actually up. I'd rather keep him under 25 for much of the regular season. edit: and for the record, I'm not the one who gave your post a negative rating. not sure why someone thought it deserved it.

No kidding. The guy played a whopping 13 games for the Wings, at 13:28 TOI. I thought he played respectably as a plug, but don't get all the Janik love here. As someone else mentioned, he's basically a 30 year old 7/8th defenseman. Last season he was in the lineup only because of injury and was behind Lilja, Ericsson, Lebda, and Meech. But now he could be 2nd pairing?? And Ericsson cannot handle 27 minutes a night. Maybe physically he could, but it would be a disaster. After how he played last season, suddenly he's ready to be the #1 D man? And Kindl's big weakness is brain farts that lead to brutal turnovers coming out of his own zone. And that's in the AHL. I'd be scared of him on the 2nd pairing unless something magical happens to his game. There is serious crack smoking going on in this thread. Assuming they don't sign Lilja or anyone else, and our bottom pairing is Ericsson-Meech/Kindl/Janik, then our defense is worse than last season. Unless someone steps up and is a major surprise. I'm hoping Ericsson rebounds this season, but that still leaves the other half of that pairing as a major question mark. And I know I'm beating this to death, but aside from experience,they need someone who can battle guys in front of the net.

I disagree. We need some on the blueline. Kronwall and Stuart hit, but that's not the same as punishing guys around your net. And in case someone was going to suggest it, Ericsson doesn't do that either. (I also can't help but wonder how long this thread will last, but so far so good)