haroldsnepsts

It may be blasphemy to say, but honestly watching that come from behind win as a kid probably ranks higher for me than a couple of Detroit's Stanley cup wins. All those guys from that era hold a special place in my heart. Klima, Gallant, Burr, Probert, Kocur... all the way down to guys like Zombo, Norwood, Delorme, Chabot, O'Connell... and on and on...

I watched a few games now and then as a kid, but then I heard how the Dead Wings had this good young player Stevie Yzerman. I'd have to say Stevie Y and Jacques Demers, because the year he became coach is the year I really started following the Wings closely.

And for those who would rather have all spots filled with skill guys, that's a great quote from Holland that illuminates the point I and few others were trying to make in the ongoing enforcer debate. That ability to have options when a team "tries to play a certain style" justifies carrying guys like them in the lineup even if they play limited games, limited minutes, in an extremely limited role.

Money aside (of course making more is nice), I can totally understand him wanting to find a permanent spot on an NHL roster, instead of being sent down to the AHL. Not just for pride, but just the grind of going back and forth and not knowing if you'll be playing with the big club. It makes total sense to look for a job in the NHL before settling for a two-way deal, even if is the Wings.

I wouldn't say it there was a lot of anti-Downey talk specifically. But there was much discussion about whether it was worth carrying a player who only plays a portion of the season, very few minutes a game, and has little to contribute other than fighting. Many thought it was not worth it. And that's Downey in a nutshell.

There's no way those girls were 16. It's a joke. But what is the IOC going to do about it? It's just one more reason why China doesn't deserve to host the games.

No kidding! That's the part that baffles me. It's as if Downey didn't exist now that we won the Cup. And people go so far as to use Detroit winning the Cup as proof we don't need an enforcer, when we had one last season! Babcock is an elite coach. And he saw fit to play Downey (who has little other use than fighting, hitting, and stirring things up) in 56 games this past year. Before anyone points out he didn't play in the playoffs, no kidding. That doesn't mean an enforcer doesn't have a purpose in the long grind that is the regular season. And let's not kid ourselves, at the NHL level Downey's skill set is about as limited as they come. If Babcock had a legit enforcer in the lineup that could occasionally skate with the puck and make a pass, he'd likely have played them even more than he did Downey.

Maltby is a role player. Kronwall is a second pairing dman who plays 21 minutes a night, has great offensive skills that are valuable in a puck possession system, and throws devastating checks. We don't have talent in the minors that can fill Kronwall's shoes right now.

I posted the youtube clip of it on the previous page. I didn't remember it that well, but honestly when you watch it, it was a total fluke play. He was slapping it to the corner like you're supposed to do and like he has thousands of times, it happened to catch a skate and went top corner. It's just one of those unlucky bounces.

Exactly. Thornton is much bigger than Feds (2 inches and 30 lbs), and is a better stickhandler than Sundin. At least, I've never seen Mats pull off some of the crazy sh*t that Thornton manages. But as you said, it's more that even though they're close in size, Thornton plays more like a big man and is someone you generally wouldn't expect to have such moves.

I actually think Thornton has impressive stickhandling for a big man. He's made Datsyukian-like moves through guys around the net.

not when he draws false conclusions from statistics. I just picked ovechkin because I think he had the most shots in the league. My point was about Sammy's sometimes totally telegraphed wrist shots that end up getting blocked, or his ill timed low percentage shots with no one around the net. Again, the bolded section is another example of faulty logic. But I don't want to get bogged down in another statistical argument with or about Eva. For the third or fourth time, I think the reason Sammy frustrates people is because of unfulfilled potential, or maybe a better description is he has a couple boneheaded habits. Whatever you want to call it. I know many people here take it to the extreme and he is a whipping boy, but it's not like we all voted and agreed upon the reason to bash him is is his shot selection. It's something that's there and can be seen watching the games.

where have I said he wasn't worth the money? where have I said that he costs us defensively? or that I don't want him on the team? Eva's stats weren't talking about cash per point. It was drawing unfounded conclusions from several stats by making bad assumptions. Sure the stats are facts, but the conclusions drawn from them aren't. I agree that for salary he is totally worth it. And he absolutely doesn't cost us defensively. He's a responsible two way player. I don't think I've ever said anything otherwise regarding those issues with Sammy. This all started as an explanation as to why Sammy gets so much hate. I've been trying to explain that it's not because he's bad. He isn't. I think it's the opposite actually. It's frustrating sometimes to watch him because a player with a lot of talent makes some boneheaded plays that seem like would be relatively easy to correct or improve. He makes some poor decisions for a seasoned veteran. EDIT: his most productive season with the Wings was when he was playing the fewest minutes at around 13:30 per game. hopefully with the addition of Hossa, Sammy's minutes will be cut back and this will be one of those cases where a player actually makes better use of the minutes they get because they're not being overextended.

I'll take off my homer glasses if you put on some actual glasses and watch what really happened.

Did you even read my post? I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT HIS SHOOTING PERCENTAGE. I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT MISSED SHOTS. Once again Eva, not everything comes down to stats. Though while we're on the topic, I'm not even sure what constitutes a missed shot. If a player fires the puck in the zone, is that a missed shot? maybe they were aiming on net? I watch games. I have eyes. And I see plenty of times where he takes an ill-advised shot, totally telegraphing it so the defenseman gets a stick on it or gets in front of it for a very easy block. Or he makes some nice moves to get in deep, then panics and shovels it back to the defenseman. Or takes an extremely low percentage shot with no Wings player anywhere near the net for a potential rebound, and the goalie freezes the puck. As I tried to communicate in my last post, it's not that Sammy is bad. It's that there's a few relatively simple things he could do to improve his game, because he is a talented player. Just one with not so great decision-making.

I don't think you can extrapolate a lot from a sample of 6 games, but even so their ice time was pretty close to one another with the exception of one game, I think. My guess is at this point they may have a little more faith in a Meech as a less talented D-man who has better decision making. Keeping it simple, not trying anything fancy. Meech is the more experienced at the moment, but Ericsson has way more upside, hence Bowman's comment and Babcock bringing up his name in a press conference that had nothing to do with him. "We have a kid named Ericsson, and I can't believe we don't dress him. I think he's going to be a stud in the league." — Red Wings head coach Mike Babcock (May 2008, USA Today).

I think the difference is that when he retired, Yzerman was honestly a third player. Because of his injury and age, it was more a gradual handing off of his role with the team. If Lidstrom retires in a few years, he will likely still be the #1 guy. He's on the ice for nearly half of every game and plays all but one or two games a season. When he's gone, the Wings will have to fill 28+ minutes for 80 or games that have been played by one of the best defenseman in the history of the NHL. I'm not saying it will devastate the team or anything, but that's a massive hole in the lineup.

Datsyuk is absolutely one of the best. I'm not sure how you could really say anyone is the best, because it becomes so subjective.

It's unfortunate that because of his contract and the Wing's cap situation, he could very well spend the whole season in GR instead of getting some ice tme in the lineup. If all contract situations were equal, I have a hard time believing Ericsson would be behind Quincey and Meech.

Honestly I wouldn't compare him to Stevens, other than his uncanny ability to catch guys with their heads down. As vicious as Steven's hits were, very few were questionable, and then it was more a case of a headshot than leaving his feet. His skates were almost always glued to the ice. Kronwall's not a very big guy so a lot of times it's him exploding up into the hit, but it still tends to make him leave his feet at times.

Cheli had it coming. Hextall was retaliating for Chelios's cheapshot on Propp earlier in the series. Hextall was one of my favorites. 6'3" 205 lbs. He was the same size as Luongo. And that dude really was seriously crazy. Imagine how great he would've been if he was wearing Luongo sized pads?

I think in short, it's the potential he has to be even better. It's one thing when you're dealing with a player of extremely limited abilities like Downey. You want him to go out there, do his job, and get off the ice without costing your team. Sammy has good size, good hands, good stickhandling, a good shot. The biggest problem with him sometimes seems to be between the ears. Better shot selection would go a looooong way towards making him even more productive out there. I'm not even saying take fewer shots or aim for the corners. He just needs to get better at getting shots through. Not telegraphing it so much. aiming through legs instead of trying to hammer it through some guys shinpads. It's such a relatively small thing for a player at an elite level, but would make such a big difference. The second biggest thing is more complicated and honestly not an easy fix because it comes down to playmaking. At this point you either have it or you don't. But it's still irritating when he makes a nice move to gain the zone, is down by the faceoff circle, then in a panic throws it back to Kronwall on the blueline. I can't speak for everyone else, but those are the two things that drive me nuts. It's not that he's an awful player. It's that he's a fairly talented player who has some awful habits. EDITED to change "elite player" to "player at an elite level." big difference.

That's the genius of it.

Agreed. He could definitely keep his elbows in and his feet on the ice a bit more. He's turned into a great D-man though. Hopefully he'll continue to be healthy, because when he is, lookout. I liked your initial post better. Yes this is a pointless rub-your-nose-in-it thread created by Mr. Pollyanna* himself, complete with douchebag laugh, hehehe. *excluding of course, anything related to Robert Lang during his tenure with the Wings