haroldsnepsts

Those are the only two that I think are really valid knocks against him. His puck handling is actually pretty good. He just gets into a spot where he doesn't know what to do, panics, and dumps it back to the defenseman, often leaving them to make a difficult play on the puck. And of course, shot selection. Ovechkin takes the most shots in the league, but he actually gets them on net. I understand throwing the puck at the net, he's just not very good at actually getting there. There's also times where you need to fire it wide to make sure it gets in deep instead of hitting a defenseman in the shinpads and leading to a break the other way. I've always said about Sammy that he doesn't really hurt us, but he rarely helps us. He's mostly keeping the jersey warm. Of course I had to eat those words in the Finals and was happy to be wrong, but most of the time it's accurate.

Franzen had plenty of time to get his gloves off in that fight. He was just awful. And yeah, we don't want Hossa standing up for himself other than in the occasional scrum. That's not why he's here. And Cleary is extremely gritty, but not really a fighter either. Ahh, another enforcer topic. This should be fun.

I agree. Which begs the question, if everyone pretty much knew Favre would want to come back, why didn't he? the whole thing (including the media coverage) is just getting a little old, that's all.

He had more than two bad line changes. He looked slow and lost out there against Dallas, especially at the end. The big question is if that was injury or he just had nothing left in the tank. His PK is one of the few things he still does bring to this team. But now that's less of a factor since we've got Stuart. Chelios is not the nasty defenseman he used to be. He runs his mouth and may irritate guys, but he's not physical like he used to be. And I don't see how you could possibly know that refs listen to him. I'm not trying to run him out of town. I just think he has diminished value to this team, even at bargain basement prices.

That's pretty much how I feel. I'm sure Yzerman wanted to keep playing too, but he saw the writing on the wall. Chelios has diminishing value, especially with so many kids that could be playing. No matter how little he's paid, it's become less and less worth it for the Wings to have him taking up a roster spot and only playing a portion of the season as a bottom pairing guy. And before anyone mentions mentoring, we're talking about a top 4 defense with Lidstrom, Rafalski, Stuart, and Kronwall. There's a lot of experience and mentoring already there.

It is bad that he's going to a division rival. I have to think that his son is a HUGE factor in this, especially if he is battling cancer. It's good for the Hawks because it's another major hope for them turning that franchise around. That's also good for the NHL. Just not that good for the Wings.

Are you sure? I don't think I've ever seen the "USA" part. Not on the website, not on the championship DVD, not anywhere. If that's the actual trademark name, they might as well just have it be an asterisk, since they never actually print it.

I'm not talking about the whole country, I'm talking about Detroit. Detroit is not selling out games (yes, the economy. I know). When the team sucked they could barely get anyone to come to games. For the last time, Detroit is a good hockey market. But to call yourself Hocketown™ is a little obnoxious. There's other great hockey cities out there that are at least as good as Detroit.

Mainly I'm just talking about support for teams over the years. The Lions suck. people keep coming. The Red Wings sucked. People didn't. As I said earlier, Detroit is a good hockeytown. I just think it's a little silly to trademark it and declare yourself Hockeytown.

Football is obviously more popular in the U.S. than hockey, but we're specifically talking about Detroit here. For years the fans in Detroit have supported the Lions in spite of they're routinely stinking up the joint. Year after year after year. When the Red Wings stunk, no one came to games. The Wings are good now and they're still not selling out. Yes, the economy is a factor for sure, but not the only one. I've always thought Detroit calling itself Hockeytown and trademarking it was a little cheesy, obnoxious, and inaccurate.

I'm just looking for you to cite a legit source to back up your claiim. The first one you linked to just talked about the raising cap. I didn't see anything about the average salary being the highest it's ever been.

We lost a half of a season in 95 as well under Bettman. Two lockouts. A season and a half. What was so bad about losing a season worth of hockey? Do I really need to explain that? As I said, other pro sports have managed to settle labor disputes without it costing a full season. Ok, so you say hockey was at an all time low during the latest lockout, at which point Bettman had been commissioner for ten years. So isn't that his fault that the league was in such bad shape? He doesn't take any of the blame for the NHL getting to that point?

Trademark aside, if we're talking about whether Detroit deserves the title of Hockeytown, my answer is no. I mean, it's a great hockey market, but there's plenty of other great ones in the U.S. and Canada. Having watched the Wings since the 80s, I've been there when they stunk and the arena was empty. It's no coincidence that the "Hockeytown" title came around when they were successful. If the Wings stunk again, lots of people would stop coming. And actually, as betterred joked, I think Footballtown is more warranted, because the Lions are terrible and have been a disappointment for years, yet the fans keep coming for more abuse season after season.

Exactly. For whatever reason, the players seem to get most of the blame for this, even though they were both lockouts by the owners, not strikes. If not the commissioner of the league, then ultimately who's fault is it that we lost a season and a half of hockey in ten years? Other leagues have managed caps and tough negotiations without it costing a season.

1) you still didn't say if it's adjusted for inflation over the years. 3) You cited the Red Wings ratings beating the pistons, the ratings for 4 Stanley Cup finals games on NBC, and the winter classic game. Yet your statement was that American local television ratings are at their highest ever. So you still haven't supported that claim. You only mentioned three isolated examples of ratings being up. 4) you claimed that players salaries are at their highest level ever. The article you cited just talks about the raising cap and revenues. Unless I'm missing something, you still haven't supported that claim. Yes the Winter Classic got good ratings. That hardly means Bettman is doing a great job.

Is this adjusted for inflation? Link? Source? Link? Source? Link? Source? Of course they did. He does whatever they tell him pretty much regardless of its long term impact on the game. Who'd have ever thought Chelios would be the voice of reason?? More teams does not = better His lack of passion for the game. His lack of understanding for the game. His incessant bold face lies about what the fans want, in spite of plenty of evidence to the contrary. Like for years when he denied clutching and grabbing was a problem. That he talked to the fans and players and they were content. Then the lockout and he's getting credit for the "new NHL." or the new schedule "to promote rivalries" when it's really just a ploy for the cheap ass owners to save on travel. And even though the fans made it pretty clear they miss playing teams in the other conferences, they miss seeing the old rivals play, Bettman said they're changing the schedule back "in spite of that the majority of fans like it the way it is." And in 94, the league may not have been exactly more popular than the NBA, but it was pretty close. Coming off the height of popularity for the sport and a great Stanley Cup finals, Bettman locked the players out in '95. Ten years later, another lockout. At the time the players took all the blame, but they're not the ones making the financial decisions here. It's the owners, and Bettman. Two lockouts in ten years, and a lost season and a half. That's a pretty bad record in my book. While the owners are responsible for many of the bad decisions made over the years, as commissioner Bettman should be a steward for the game. Leading the owners at times, not just being a patsy for their whims. Particularly when their decisions are motivated by short term or selfish business interests, and not the overall health of the league. He should have an eye on the long term health of the game, but shows little understanding or love of the sport.

Last word.

That's all I needed to know. I'm done.

which is why I asked specifically is he would prefer a Red Wings team without Drake, Mac and Downey, and no one filling their roles as hitters and fighters. To try and avoid semantics arguments.

That's the crux of it. Just because you think it's so doesn't make it a reality. It's a relevant part of hockey. And a relevant part of winning.

It's not a math equation. It's not statistics. It's hockey. And I'm not just talking about Downey. I'm talking about Drake, Downey, and McCarty. This team played more cohesively and tougher than it had those previous seasons. Those guys had something to do with that change in chemistry. Edited: response below.

oh goodie. Now Scotty can buy all the magic 8 balls his little heart desires so this time around he can make up his f-ing mind. *All Signs point to yes.* *Ask again.* *Sit out long enough so Burke can afford Teemu.*

I know. I hated all those years Parker was on the Wings... oh. wait. Were you not watching last season when Downey was on the team? The guy skates worse than I do, but knew his role and made the most of his minutes without being a liability. So you'd rather have a Wings team with no McCarty? No Downey? No Drake? And no one of those type of player to replace them?

If he was a Cup chaser, would he really have gone to the Rangers??

you're probably right. Stuart and a healthy Kronwall will definitely keep players heads on a swivel. It'll be fun to watch this season. And it is early. And I'm fairly sure Kenny will try and get some enforcer. Like I said, I'm just amazed that people seem to think we don't need it when to me last season proved the exact opposite.