haroldsnepsts

Well, if there's any silver lining, its that holy crap Franzen has been hot. He picked the right time of the year to find his game.

I'm not saying they don't have a reason to play hard. It's apparently not a compelling enough one for them though.

I'm sure she will be here for spin control as soon as she possible can. Ugh. Wings down 3-0. This is a team having trouble finding a reason to play hard.

That's the big difference. Simon was just back from suspension. But Pronger still should've gotten more than 8 games. As for the skate being caught on Kesler's sock, Colin Campbell, is that you?

Yeah, isn't it nice that Campbell, who's supposed to be disciplining players, is basically making excuses for Pronger? What a joke. Campbell's quote when Chris Simon stomped on Ruutu's boot. "While fortunate, Mr. Ruutu suffered no serious injury as a result of Chris Simon's actions, the deliberate act of kicking an opponent with a skate blade, especially when that opponent is in a vulnarable position, is and always has been a repugnant and totally unacceptable act in the game of hockey." Campbell's quote when Chris Pronger stomped on Kesler's calf. "In attempting to free himself, Pronger carelessly and recklessly brought his foot down." So when it's a marginal player, it's repugnant to use the skate as a weapon and unacceptable. When a star player does it, he just had a little whoopsy with where he put his footsie. Seriously, it's crap like this that makes it harder to explain and justify this sport to my friends who don't watch hockey. And it makes it harder to justify the expense and effort for me to follow the game each passing year when its reffing and executive leadership makes it more like pro wrestling.

I would definitely prefer more minutes of 4 on 4 prior to the shootout. If they keep the shootout, they're going to have to keep awarding the point for losing because it's such an illegitimate way to lose a game. I don't think teams will be happy playing 60+ minutes of hockey in a tie game, then coming away with no points do to the shootout. I agree though. If that were the worst thing about the league, it wouldn't be too bad.

I know. apparently my argument is weak, yet the underlying argument behind Dats winning the Selke seems to be "Datsyuk is awesome!" combined with his +/- and takeaway stats.

The second was definitely bad. Horrible communication between Ozzy and Kronwall there. Someone should've let them know that Peverly was bearing down on them. The first goal it would've been great to make a big save, but Hamhuis basically walked in untouched and made a nice move. Franzen couldn't catch him on the backcheck, and both are d-men were standing around staring, confused on their assignments. Actually that was Kronner and Sammy back there. Whoever else was out on D got caught up ice.

1) Bettman's lack of passion and understanding for the game (alternate answer is being a slappy for idiot owners instead of a steward of the game). 2) Campbell's lack of spine and consistency when doling out punishment. and I'm talking about way more than the latest Pronger slap on the wrist. 3) General deterioration in quality and consistency in officiating, in spite of having an extra ref. 4) Bad changes to the game like shootouts and the points awarded for losing.

I also forgot to add that Madden spends much more time on the PK than Dats. He's their number one penalty killer by a wide margin, whereas Dats is 7th on the team on avg pk time per game. All of these points are ones I've raised before in this thread, yet they apparently still don't support my argument?

okay, smart guy. So how do you back these arguments up other than with assertions. Stats? If you know anything about the Selke Trophy, it comes down to so much more than stats. So what it comes down to watching the games and having an opinion, which is kind of the basis of these fan forums. Opinions. The only reason you don't see any substantial arguments here is because you're ignoring them. I stated several reasons in this thread why Madden is a better choice for the Selke than Datsyuk. Just because you think they're invalid doesn't make it so. Madden plays a more defensive role on his team than Dats. He takes more faceoffs and wins a lot of them. He hits, he blocks shots, he takes the puck away. He is called upon to shut down the opposition's top players. Are none of those holding up my choice of Madden? And you've already wasted an awful lot of time in this thread so far. Don't let me keep you from leaving. Edited for grammar.

Not living in a hockey town anymore, I have a lot of friends who don't know much about the game. So I'll try and tell them how great the sport is, and explain how fighting fits in and everything. But basically I feel like i'm trying to explain Pro Wrestling as a legit sport when they ask me how a guy can get elbowed in the head, knocked unconscious, and the player that did it only gets three games of an 82 game season. Or a player stomps on a guy with basically a razor blade strapped to his foot, and he gets only 8 games, where in any other league it would've been a massive suspension. Edit: it just reinforces the outside perspective that hockey is a brutal bloodsport played mostly by goons.

Yup. Pronger gets rested for the playoffs, with what, one regular season game to get back into flow of things before the first round starts?? Colin Campbell is a friggin joke. The UFC does more to protect their athletes than the NHL.

I'm not sure what you mean by arguments versus assertions. Aren't arguments comprised in part by assertions? Anyway, Datsyuk is definitely a better overall player than Madden or Fisher. But Madden is more deserving of the Selke trophy than Pavel. It's not about who's the best overall player, it's about the forward who best exemplifies the defensive aspects of the game. When comparing the two players, Madden better represents that then Dats. That's not to say Dats isn't a good two way player though.

I'm really surprised that with the second angle, some people still think it was accidental. I'll give him the some leeway. He's trying to pull his leg free and kind of stumbles a bit, but it's clear as day to me that he then stomps down on Kesler's leg in a deliberate act. You free your leg by pulling up, not by stomping it down. Like I said, I think the absolute maximum will be ten games, but more likely 5. Which as someone mentioned on another board, is basically like resting him for the playoffs.

I think the most he'll get is the rest of the season and one playoff game, max.

I wouldn't hold your breath. That's just speculation by TSN. Frankly I'd be amazed if they admitted that they came out too early saying he wouldn't be suspended and now disciplined him based on this evidence.

Yeah, with the first footage, it looked like it was probably intentional, though I could understand some excuse for them not suspending based on that footage alone. With this second angle though, there's no excuse. There's also no excuse for them announcing so fast there would be no suspension. I'm not positive, but it seems like word was out Pronger would not be suspended much faster than they came out with the Laraque suspension.

Holy crap indeed! That second angle shows it was completely intentional. Odd how the NHL came out on this so early saying there would be no suspension at all.

5 shifts and 2:37 TOI. That's gotta be some weird error that he got a star.

That's what I was wondering. What happened with Downey that he got first star??? And it's nice to see the Wings still own Turco.

Yeah, I think all the early praise got to me, combined with his 41 goal season where he only had 16 assists. I still don't get how a top line forward who plays that many minutes a game only notches 16 assists. He was also worst on the team with a -35 that year. Tons of goals and won the Rocket Richard, but had to work on plenty of other aspects of his game. Still, I forget how young he is.

Yeah, that was pretty satisfying, but Stevie got out of the way and Pronger did that to himself. That was more like poetic justice. I'm looking for vengeance.

We have video. http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=231940&hubname=nhl There's a link there aptly named "Stomp!" do I get a golden ticket? Drat, got beat to it, though I provided the link.