haroldsnepsts

I'm not usually one to root for guys getting injured, no matter how much I hate them. But if I was watching a game and saw someone like Derian Hatcher remove a couple of Pronger's teeth with a crosscheck, or send him to the ice with a BC two-hander, my honest first reaction would be "How do you like that, b*tch!" Because he's been on the giving side of so many dirty plays over the years, there honestly would be some satisfaction in watching him get a taste of his own medicine. Hell, if Hatcher or another player did do that to Pronger, the sales of that players jersey would probably skyrocket around the league.

Good for him, I guess. I've never liked Rick Nash, though honestly I can't say it's based on anything specific he's done. I just don't like his big fat face or something.

It really was on TSN? hopefully it'll make it's way to youtube soon. I want to see this if this is an overblown incident, or warranted outrage.

Agreed. I'm in no way saying it's right. That's just how the league seems to operate. Even though he's probably the most suspended player in the league (number of times, not number of games), he's a star. I don't see him getting anywhere near 15 games. If he does get even a game for this, it'll be what, his 8th suspension?

The league unfortunately has shown over and over again that it only finds its spine regarding suspensions when it involves a marginal player. In spite of being a repeat offender, Pronger is a golden boy in this league.

Two things: I'd have to see the video, but if he did stomp on Kesler's calf, that's worse than Simon stomping on a boot. Secondly, there's no way he comes close to a 30 game suspension, if he gets one at all. Simon's was in part because he was just coming back from the stick swinging incident. Add to that Pronger is a star player in this league. Without having seen it (hopefully someone will have a youtube clip soon) I'd bet 5 games max, if he gets any at all.

Color me blind then. But I'm guessing that was a shot at me when you said it anyway. Madden is a much more qualified candidate for the Selke than Dats. Tons of time on the PK, blocks shots, hits, great on faceoffs and takes a lot for his team, takeaways, and in general plays a more defensive role than Pavel.

Why isn't someone like Madden having a selke-worthy season?

He missed games due to the hip flexor problem in November and February, and now the sore back. When you're talking about a 43 year old goaltender, I think you have to factor in the potential benefits of playing him more than half time versus him wearing down before the playoffs. If it were me, I'd go 50/50 for sure. Hasek's been in a few playoff games in his career, I don't think he needs to start a lot of games running up to the postseason to get momentum or anything.

Maybe this was the plan all along, but I think they need to go back to a more 50/50 split between Hasek and Ozzy, so Osgood will be more ready to go if Hasek goes down in the playoffs.

hip flexor, now a sore back?

Yeah, you should really verify who's in net before you start goalie bashing and trying to start a goaltender war.

This is great for Cleary, and great for the Wings. What a find the Wings made when they invited Cleary to training camp.

I definitely think he could be if that was his number one job. He does have a physical disadvantage, as you mentioned, but I think he could compensate for that with skill.

Then why wouldn't Babcock put the best defensive forward on the team out on the PK more? Why would Babcock put Z out more on the PK if Dats is better defensively? As I said earlier, he's behind 6 other players in PK time per game. And a lot of the minutes he has been getting are due in part to guys like Maltby and Cleary being out of the lineup. And takeaways are a highly unreliable stat. I don't know if I can still find the link, but there was a blog that showed it basically came down to what building you played in that had the greatest influence on that stat. Still, Dats being so far in the lead and more importantly, having watched him play, I bet he does lead in takeaways. The guy is a thief. But that doesn't make him the best defensive forward in the league. To me that's a guy who spends a lot of time on the PK, who shadows the other teams star, keeps him from even touching the puck, yes takes the puck away when he does get it, pressures him to make the bad pass or take the bad shot, puts the body on him any chance he can, and generally frustrates the hell out of him. Your argument that Z looks like he's working harder because he's not as talented is a pretty creative one. By that reasoning, Lang must've been the most talented guy on the ice, because it usually looked like he wasn't working very hard at all. Why did we trade him?! Sorry Gordie, but I gotta disagree with this one. Dats is one of the best forwards in the league and has become a great two-way forward, but to me he's not the best defensive forward in the league. I'm gonna have to play the homer card on this one. (and before you jump down my throat, I realize you didn't say he should win the selke. I was joking.)

technically that's what the award is for, though they often give it to two-way forwards (too often, IMO) And Fedorov was head and shoulders a better defensive player than Dats. (oooo, I mentioned Fedorov again). so now that the stat no longer works in his favor, it's because Detroit is so deep on faceoffs? No. He's out there to score goals and make plays, and then also to backcheck and help keep the puck out of his own net. That's different than being the guy assigned to shut down Sidney Crosby. Well it's good we agree on something. And no one has really answered this point. If he's the best defensive forward in the league, why isn't he out there more on the PK? He's not even top 5 on his own team in PK minutes per game. Look, it's beating a dead horse and I know it's unpopular to think Dats doesn't deserve this award. I just don't think he's the number one defensive forward in the league.

Is there a point in my throwing out any names? It seems clear your mind is made up that Datsyuk is the best defensive forward in the league. Again, it's just not his role. A true defensive forward would have a lot more time on the PK than Dats is. That is not a knock on Dats, it's just not what he's asked to do. He is one of the best forwards in the league for sure, just not the best defensive one in my book. And my opinion is based mostly watching him play, not the stats.

You mean besides be a defensive forward? And I have to question two things in your post. First, where did you find the stat on him being top 10 in faceoff %? Dats is really good on faceoffs, but honestly I'd be surprised if he was top 10 in the league. So many guys will be bunched together on that stat. And he only takes 17% of the teams faceoffs. So any top ten list would have to have some sort of criteria for how many total faceoffs taken and how much of the teams faceoffs a player should take to even qualify for the list. Otherwise the top ten list would be full of guys who've taken one faceoff and won it. Second, is him being the number one center matched against the opponents #1 line. Yes he may be out there against the other teams top line, but that's a different thing than being matched against the top line with the primary objective being to shut down their star player. The team leading stats could work for or against Dats. he's obviously a big part of those numbers, but also his numbers benefit from Detroit being a strong defensive team. it's the chicken/egg argument. I don't know what to tell you. Dats is a great player. And like I said he's a total pickpocket and very responsible defensively. But to me that doesn't make him the best defensive forward in the league. It's not that he couldn't become one, it's just not his job. Among forwards, he averages less PK time per game than Draper, Cleary, Z, Maltby, Franzen, and even Drake. The bottom line though is it comes down to more than stats. Great plus minus and huge takeaways doesn't mean he's the best defensive forward in the league.

Exactly what I was going to say. Dats is a total pickpocket and sound defensively, but honestly I don't think he's top 3 for the Selke. Mainly because he isn't asked to be a shutdown forward most of the time. When everyone is healthy, Dats doesn't even log a lot of ice time on the PK, which you'd expect a true defensive forward to do. And while +/- plays some role, I think that stat in particular needs to be looked at in context. You can't just go by the guy with the highest number because a true defensive forward is typically going to play a lot of time against a team's top lines.

If you call for a stick to be checked and it turns out to be legal, your team does end up with the 2-minute penalty. From the NHL rulebook: (NOTE 1) When a formal complaint is made by the Captain or Alternate Captain of a Team, against the dimensions of any stick, the Referee shall take the stick to the Timekeeper's bench where the necessary measurement shall be made immediately. The result shall be reported to the Penalty Timekeeper who shall record it on the back of the penalty record. If the complaint is not sustained, a bench minor penalty shall be imposed against the complaining club in addition to a fine of one hundred dollars ($100). http://www.nhl.com/hockeyu/rulebook/rule19.html

I had watched the Wings on and off before, but the year I really became a Red Wings fan was in 83-84, also Stevie's first year in the league.

I'm actually not really superstitious, but I believe saying shutout just shouldn't be done until the game is over. Though I seriously have never seen it backfire quite so quickly and spectacularly as it did after you said it! Hell, I think I am superstitious after that.

That Tootoo goal was garbage. so you're aloud to stand in the crease and just hammer away at the puck when it's under a goalie? Someone needs to tell Homer that's now allowed when he gets back.

The W is the most important. And GAA is more of a team stat than goalie stat anyway.

Are you superstitious now?