haroldsnepsts

Honestly, I'm disappointed. Holland has pretty clearly run out of ideas these last few seasons, so I don't have a lot of hope for significant changes to rebuild the franchise over the next 4 years. Who knows though. Maybe he'll finally realize the crap he's done lately isn't working? Maybe?? If I were Babcock I'd start looking to other teams.

Since it's the offseason and also because of what's been going on since the free agent signings, it's a good time to remind everyone of some of the forum rules. I've posted a few warnings in threads but wanted to put a reminder where everyone will see it. From the forum rules: · DO post a link reference (or cite the TV/radio source) when reporting breaking news, reports, etc. Threads started without this information may be deleted or moved. When posting a trade or signing, please provide a link to a reputable source as confirmation. This time of year people often make fake twitter accounts so make sure the tweet you're linking to is a verified account from a reputable source. · DO post constructively. If you can't add anything meaningful to a discussion, don't bother. Before hitting reply, just take a second to think about what impact your post will have on the discussion. Is it making it better or worse? · DON'T post duplicate topics. Before posting your new thread be sure to check the first two pages of the forum to make sure the topic isn't already being discussed. Multiple violations of this rule by a single member is punishable by temporary suspension from the forums. · DON'T post false and/or misleading topics. Members caught doing so will be banned IMMEDIATELY with NO chance of reinstatement. The punishment may seem severe but if people start posting fake trade threads, the forum becomes total chaos. LGW should be a resource for solid hockey talk and information. · DO refrain from using vulgar language. There is a curse/bad word filter currently on the forum and members that purposely attempt to circumvent this filter will be subject to a suspension of account privileges. No alternate spellings. No blanking some of the letters. Let the profanity filter do its job. · DON'T personally attack other members. This includes name-calling, flame-baiting, etc.. If you can't discuss your point with maturity then don't discuss it. People that violate this rule will be dealt with swiftly. In short, debate the content of someone's argument, not the person themselves. This includes broad insults against people on this forum and their level of fandom. Like it or not, complaining about the Red Wings can be on topic. If you don't like it, don't read it. If they've clearly violated forum rules, report it to bring it to a moderators attention. If you really don't like anything a person here has to say, you can put that member on your ignore list. As I've said before, this forum relies entirely on content generated from its members. You are all the authors of this forum, so it will only be as good or bad as you make it. The ultimate goal of all of these rules is not to punish people, but to make LGW a source of lively, respectful, informed discussion. Thanks! (link to the full forum rules for reference) http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=boardrules

Yes, yes, I know. The Wings lost the Cup because of Stuart. Or was it because of not suspending Malkin? I can never remember which. It surely couldn't have been that they got outplayed by a hungrier team. By pinning the Cup loss on Stuart, you're kinda making my point. He's definitely an underappreciated Wings player.

Brad Stuart The guy was a key piece of the 2008 Cup win.

Agreed. Doughty is very much the same way. I wouldn't want the NHL to start looking like the NFL where every minor play is celebrated like they just won the Super Bowl, but these are young guys playing a sport they love. It's okay to have fun and show some emotion. I also like that he admits that he likes to throw hard hits so he regretted going after OV for a clean hard hit. Lucic's nut spearing and butthurt antics in the handshake line are much worse than anything I've ever seen Subban do.

Here's Subban with his NBA attitude, putting himself above his teammates, putting himself above the league, and generally making it all about himself. (I was being sarcastic) In interviews and what I saw on CH24 he comes across as one of the more well spoken and humble players in the league.

How has he acted like he is above the team? What over the top celebrations? I've seen him be incredibly excited for a goal but I've never seen him do a dance over a flaming stick or anything. It sounds like their relationship is actually fine now but Therrien is as much to blame with his handling of Subban and any friction there. If they thought the arbitrator would have awarded less, they would've done that. They just locked Subban up for his prime years and he's likely only going to get better. Like I said, I'm not even particularly a huge fan of the guy. I just don't really understand why he gets as much criticism as he does for what are usually very minor things. I don't lump him in with the guys who are sliding down on one knee and pointing their stick at the goalie like a rifle. Or flopping all over the ice to draw penalties. Guys like Ryan Clowe can interfere with the play from the bench and it's somehow no big deal. Shawn Thornton squirts water in Subban's face during play and it's somehow just gamesmanship. Can you imagine the reaction if Subban had done that to someone?

A link I posted earlier in the thread makes the important point that Doughty signed his contract right after his entry level contract expired. So he was making a couple million more than Subban since then. The Habs went the bridge year route and Subban was essentially underpaid until now. As for Weber, his contract only looks cheaper than Subban's because it's a cap circumventing 14 year deal that is no longer allowed under the current CBA. He gets paid $1 million for the last three years of his contract in 2024, 25, and 26. It's not, for the reasons I listed above. It's a cap cheater. Then factor in that Weber gets almost all his salary paid in one huge chunk, and it's less than ideal from a business perspective.

Care to explain exactly what an NBA attitude is? Putting yourself always over the team?? I was never really a fan, but on CH24 he just seemed like a young, goofy, outgoing, but humble guy. When he made stupid mistakes during games he was the first one to own up to it. He seemed immature when he came into the league but as you pointed out he is absolutely operating under a microscope so his every mistake is magnified a thousand times. He is only 25 years old after all. He's an extremely talented young player, a Norris winning defenseman, and their franchise. He got pretty much what people expected, especially given his bridge contract. The Canadiens just locked him up through all his prime years.

Some of this definitely has to do with the bridge deal. For the last two years he was underpaid compared to his peers who signed long term contracts when their entry level contracts expired. A good take on it, written before the signing: http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/546875

Agreed. Which side do you think had the most realistic estimate of his value for a one year contract? http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/547282

I love how Sammy doesn't hesitate to speak his mind. On what he's looking forward to playing in Sweden: http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/546200

That was to the AHL team, in January.

Penner is such a weird one. He was hot and cold in LA, but then seemed rejuvenated with the Ducks and was playing on the first line. So naturally they trade him to Washington for a 4th round pick? With the Ducks he had 32 points in 49 games and was a +22. I'm a little leery of him though too because of his hot and cold nature. I'd be afraid for whatever reason he'd be a bust in Detroit. When motivated he's still a good player though.

Agreed. All shin pad assassin jokes aside, Sammy was a bargain during his first stay here in Detroit. He had good size, was irritating to play against, and put up good numbers for his salary. It's just unfortunate that Holland keeps repeating the mistake of bringing back former players, but I hold no ill will for Sammy.

No matter how many times I watch that one, I still can't figure out a plausible theory on how the ref appears like that.

Never trust a gif. He was crosschecked in the back prior to running into the crossbar. Part of the reason he reacts the way he does is it looks like he hits his face on the crossbar. And he was going hard to the net to get open for a pass or rebound. It probably looks unfamiliar because he's one of the few Wings players who does it.

There is always going to be some grey area as to what constitutes a duplicate thread. In general we try to let threads live if there's good conversation going on in each of them and they aren't a clear duplicate, but obviously people may disagree with that judgment from time to time. However, if there is an existing thread on a topic, no matter how long, we will delete the newly created one. No one is asking or expecting you to read all 85 pages of a thread before you post. The conversation evolves and people are welcome to chime in about the topic at any point. For signings, there's the general thread for smaller signings but people are welcome to create threads to discuss a specific signing. The main thread is sort of a catch-all for updates regarding the minor signings.

Advanced stats in and of themselves aren't inherently bad. It's typically that people often draw conclusions from them that aren't supported by what the data is actually measuring.

Before he hooked up with the Hawks though, he made it out of the 2nd round of the playoffs once in 10 years as a head coach. Losing to the eventual cup winner in a first round series doesn't really count for much to me. Babcock took out the 2003 Red Wings in 4 games with a Ducks roster that wasn't exactly stacked with stars and got them to game 7 of the Finals. in 2007 he took the Wings to the Conference finals, losing to a great team and eventual Cup winner in the Ducks . In 2008 he won the Cup In 2009 he went through the Ducks, still a very good team, and beat Quenneville's Blackhawks (the next year's Cup winner), then took the Pens (who people here don't like to admit but were a great team) to 7 games. In 2013 he took the Blackhawks to game 7 OT with a lineup that had no business hanging with the Hawks. I think Quenneville is a good coach, but I still put Babcock a notch above him.

It's obviously opinion at this point but there's no way I'd want Quenneville over Babcock. Sutter maybe. I think Sutter outcoached and exposed the Hawks this playoffs, and Babcock almost did it the previous year with a helluva lot less talent. Here's part of the reason I think Babs is a great coach. http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/539181

Babcock is easily one of if not the best coach in the NHL. That's not exactly a bold statement. Any article you read about Babcock from sources around the league refer to him as the best or one of the best. Darryl Sutter is also a very good coach. He came on to a very good team at the right time and was a great fit.

Honestly I'd rather it be an outside trainer. I didn't listen to the interview so was going by what the article said (incorrectly, it sounds like), which referred to the team's trainer. I think that's better for Babcock, but I don't think it is for Holland. Given the team Holland has put together this season, if I were Babcock I'd prefer not be locked in to the Wings for another contract to keep open the possibility of coaching somewhere else. But if I'm Holland and want to keep the best coach in hockey on my team, I'd lock him up as soon as possible so it's not dependent on what could be a less than stellar year.

The Wing's front office obviously realizes that fans are upset, because this is pretty clearly Babcock doing damage control for Holland. Here's an article also referencing the interview. http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/538908 I guess we'll just wait and see what the future and Cleary's knee holds. I'm also not sure how much confidence I should give their trainer given the Wing's extensive injuries last season.

I stated it in the original post but it apparently needs repeating. If you want to guarantee your post will be deleted, be sure to include statements about other fans here whining and crying.