haroldsnepsts

You're glossing over a fairly relevant portion of the rule.

From the NHL rulebook: If, in the opinion of the Referee, a player makes contact with the puck first and subsequently trips the opponent in so doing, no penalty shall be assessed. You can't even see the possibility of how someone could think it was a legal play under that criteria? Because of the end result, it probably warranted a penalty, but there's clearly some case to be made for how it wouldn't be.

No myth. From the 2007/08 rulebook: Also, here's why it wasn't a penalty shot.

wow. There's so dirtbag moves by Jackman in that clip before the fight.

Yeah, if you watch the youtube clip, Gaborik takes about three good strides with his head down. That's an eternity in the NHL. It was somewhat of a dangerous play. But Hasek came skating and committed to the poke check. Once he's headed out like that, there's no turning back. Then Gaborik kept his head down. I'm obviously not blaming Gaborik, but it's not like Dom went out with the intent of sending the guy head over heels.

This is hardly a puck missing a guys throat. Gaborik flipped ass over teakettle and was close to landing on his head which mighthave resulted in an injury that possibly could've ended his career. By that criteria, that happens about every other shift in a hockey game. I could honestly go either way about it being a penalty. I've seen goalies slide out before and take a guy out, cover the puck, and not get called for anything. Still, I can't believe there's so much debate about it being dirty. Over on hfboards, most people think it was a spectacular play. There's a lot of debate about whether it was a penalty or not, but few are calling it a dirty play. How odd that so many people here are on a Red Wings forum. And like I said earlier, I'm glad no one was hurt, especially Hasek. But I love that he did. It's a crazy ass move. The more unpredictable Dom is, typically the more successfully he is. It's the key to his style.

You could just as reasonably argue that it was an accidental trip that occurred simultaneously with the completed play. The puck was on Gaborik's sick right in front of him. Dom threw his body at the puck. If Hasek misses Gaborik and still gets the puck, no goal. Again, I'm a little surprised at this thread. Hasn't anyone seen a goalie come out and make a play like this before?

almost ended a guys career???? He wasn't even hurt on the play. I can't believe there's this much controversy over it being a "dirty" play. I've seen several other goalies make a similar move on a breakaway over the years. Usually the guy has his head up so it doesn't result in such a spectacular hit, but this isn't the first time a goaltender has ever come out like that. And honestly I don't think it should've been a penalty. Gaborik was carrying the puck when it happened, Dom came out and made a play, hit the puck, Gaborik went flying. Isn't that hockey? If he actually made some unnecessary move to trip Gaborik, I could see it. But he slid right at the puck. If Gaborik doesn't go flying, the ref probably doesn't call a penalty. My only problem with is that I'm glad Dom didn't get hurt on the play (and yes Gaborik too). He also didn't manage to hang onto the puck. Luckily it slid right to a Wings player. Otherwise it's a wide open net.

Just wondering now that Lang is gone, who will be the object of all the hyperbolic hate on LGW. A player who went from being mostly considered a decent addition to the team, to just okay, to the worst player to ever lace up skates and the root of all problems on the Wings.

I was just thinking that. lol though honestly if we played with the goalie pulled an had an extra attacker, they probably wouldn't even have 5 shots.

Wow. Talk about domination.

the Wild have 5 shots on goal, and we're halfway through the game?

Yup. The Wings have been playing great, but I still think a big, legit 2nd line goalscorer will make this team scary good come playoff time.

Whether he had a heads up from Scotty about coming back or not, Burke pretty much had to say something like that in the press. What's he going to say "well, it's a mere formality while Scotty takes a nice break so we don't have to pay him." And I don't think Burke concocted this from the start to gain some advantage. If anything, when he got Schneider and was weighing his options, this probably seemed like best possible one if Scott wasn't coming back right away. Of course he'd rather have Niedermayer back, but there was the upside of getting out of paying him and saving some space under the cap. And I'm sure it's no coincidence that he came our recently about teams being able to have dead salary in order to trade players. It'd probably be easier to move a player like Schneider in order to make contractual room for Scott's return if they could eat some of his paycheck in a trade. More than anything, I'm just surprised Niedermayer would put his team in this position. He was the captain and the Conn Smythe winner. It was hard enough knowing what was going on while Stevie was deciding. Imagine if that happened after the 2002 season, and he didn't make up his mind until December.

If Lewis did write that, the major difference being that hitting players is legal. Even at the NHL level, coaches go over elements of the game that the players should know. But they do it to reinforce the point.

That's the point I was trying to get at. There were really two possibilities here. 1) Niedermayer thought about retiring, Burke went and got Schneider. then sometime over the summer they had conversations about him coming back, and Burke "suspended" Scott to save himself some cash while Scott took a nice long break. I'm not saying Burke was happy about this, but Im' sure it lessened the sting when he figured out he could free up some space, and a GM will do what he has to in order to get a player the caliber of Niedermayer back in the lineup. Then surprise surprise, Scott comes back right on schedule. If that's the case, it's nice that Niedermayer gave his family and team some heads up of his plan, but I think it's a manipulation of the CBA. 2) Niedermayer truly didn't know whether he was coming back of not until very recently. This was not planned out. Burke really had no idea if he was coming back. This makes Niedermayer an even bigger tool. Yes, retirement has to be a very difficult decision when hockey has been all you've done since you were a kid. Still, as a professional athlete, a teammate, and a captain, and just a stand up guy, he should've made his decision at the start of the season. I'm sure his indecision has been a distraction for the team. I know it must've made planning harder for Burke. And it's made even worse because the Ducks are struggling. There's no sour grapes here. The Ducks will be a better team with Scott. In my opinion though, Scotty should've handled this much differently than he did. If Burke knew about this all along, we'll never be sure. But right from when he suspended Niedermayer, it was pretty obvious something is rotten in Denmark.

Wow. I'm as shocked to hear this as I was when I found out Niedermayer is coming back.

True. One of my biggest problems with Bettman is that he's basically a slappy for whatever the BOG wants to do. And many of them have proven themselves to be idiots when it comes to running an NHL franchise. Ideally a real commissioner would have a passion and understanding of the game (which Bettman doesn't) along with the diplomacy skills (which Bettman doesn't) to get the owners to agree to ideas that are ultimately good for the NHL even if it doesn't help them in the short term. Instead he seems to do pretty much whatever the hell most of them want, even if it ultimately ends up hurting the game, and the most irritating part his bald face lies about what the fans think. As for the low numbers being his fault, all you really have to do is look at the popularity of the game when Bettman took over the reigns (basically the 94 season), and where the popularity of the game is now, 13 years and two work stoppages later. And I think you bring up a great point about the lockout. People here were all over the players, calling them greedy, and mostly siding with the owners. Now that the game is back, I think more people are realizing that maybe it wasn't all the players fault. And that there are some bad owners out there.

Exactly. Everyone saw this coming. People were even guessing it would be around December 1st. Scott wanted a long vacation, and Burke and the Ducks saved themselves some cash.

Gee, no one saw this coming.

Niedermayer has never done anything close to this, that's why I'm surprised that he's behaving this way. Like I said, even if it is all above board, even if he hasn't given advance word to Burke where they've planned on him coming back, then I'm still extremely disapointed in Niedermayer. Like I said, I really liked the guy. And of course it's a difficult decision, but by dragging it out this long, he has put his team in a tough position. You don't think this uncertainty has been a distraction and a handicap for the Ducks? For the management in planning for their future? It's almost worse if Niedermayer really was this wishy washy and was keeping everyone waiting on his decision, his family, his team. It's why I could only guess he's already given word to all parties involved. That makes the situation easier on his family and team, but it's still a manipulation of the situation and dishonest to the NHL in my opinion. And it also is worse to me because he is the captain of the team. His indecision has hurt this team. That's even worse when you're supposed to be the leader. And honestly I'm fine with all of this really, except that I think the Ducks should have to pay his full salary for the year. He is under contract to the Ducks. He is medically cleared to play. He's not holding out for a new contract, he's not a player with some substance abuse problem. He's the former captain of the team who just doesn't feel like playing right now. Fine. But when he does come back, the Ducks should still have to pay that contract they signed with him. If he didn't feel like playing for half the year, that's their problem with Scotty, not the league's. we'll have to agree to disagree I guess. But I think it's incredibly naive to think he didn't give Burke a heads up on this one. Or that this whole situation hasn't been a distraction for the team, at the very least. Plus the financial ramifications of whether or not they bring Scotty back. Honestly I'm beginning to feel like I'm discussing this with a Ducks homer.

I just hope he stays healthy for a full season...

If Datsyuk did this, I would be extremely disappointed in him, and surprised that Holland would put up with that kind of b.s. and pull such a stunt. How's that? Where it is not in good faith is in his "suspension." We're not talking about a rogue player who refuses to show up for camp. This is the captain of the team who can't seem to make up his mind. Though if he really hadn't made up his mind, then why has he been skating? It's almost as if he decided a while ago, but is keeping himself in game shape until his actual return date. Almost as if it were planned. Hmmm.... It's not the situation a suspension was really meant for. And even if nothing below board is going on here (which I highly doubt and think is incredibly naive) then I still am disappointed in Niedermayer, especially as captain. He's let down his team by either not being there with them the first half of the season, or not making a final decision so they could move on. I don't know how many different ways I can say it Gordie. This is not sour grapes because I don't like the Ducks. But believe what you want to believe.

Of course they would've liked to have Niedermayer's services. But Burke didn't know that his team would be hovering around .500. Plus he picked up Scheider to fill Scott's role. Before the season started, it seemed pretty reasonable they could get along without him for half the season. I'm guessing when he was thinking of retiring, Burke figured out how he could make this work for both of them, in spite of Scott being under contract. I don't know how I'd feel if a Wings player did this. I can't see Yzerman or Lidstrom doing something like this. Ultimately I just think it's Scott and Burke having an arrangement, which is not in good faith with the CBA. And no matter how this plays out or what did or did not happen, I think all of this is very much beneath Niedermayer, especially as captain. I really did like the guy. Great player. A clear champion. Seemed like a standup guy. But whatever the circumstances, this is a joke. Scotty was under contract. He should've either retired, or played the whole season. You don't abandon your team like that so you can get a break. I'm sure Yzerman would've loved to take some time off each year towards the end of his career.

This is hardly the same thing. We've had this discussion before, and if memory serves you seemed to lump me in with the folks who just hate the Ducks and everything they do. I don't. Niedermayer likely never intended to retire. I think he originally considered it, but then he just needed a break. we all knew he was coming back. All those other cases the players retired, they really thought they were done. And all or most of them didn't come back mid-season. I'm fine with him "changing his mind." My problem is that the Ducks should be on the hook for his whole years contract. His being suspended is a joke. Burke found a loophole in the CBA and is using it to his advantage. Niedermayer is under contract, if he plays this season, they should have to pay his whole salary and have it count against the cap.