haroldsnepsts

His goals are definitely down. That is a concern. His faceoff percentage is fine. His shooting percentage is down because he's taking more shots which should lead to goals. That alone is in no way an indication of something really wrong. Its just math. He definitely needs to start potting some goals. If the situation was reversed and Datsyuk was tearing up the league but Z was struggling to score on the wing, would you want to switch them? I just don't think it's something to mess with right now. Datsyuk is an extremely talented player. I'm sure he'll be able to score from the Wing. If halfway through the season his goals are still surprisingly low, then maybe it's time to move him because he can't seem to sort it out himself.

You're right that Datsyuk is bettter at center than he is at wing. But so is Zetterberg, and he's leading the league right now so as you say, why mess with a good thing? As for the faceoffs, that's conjecture. You could just as easily look at the numbers and say maybe he's not taking as many faceoffs because he hasn't been winning them like he used to. Besides, he's still above 50%. That's not exactly slumping. And once the play is going in the offensive zone, I don't think they behave like a traditional center and winger anyways. I just don't see the sense in moving the hottest player in the league right now out of that position, especially to try and get Dats more goals by moving him from a goalscoring to a setup position.

Yeah, that's really the only caveat. If they were to stay here for the bulk of their careers, it's a pretty easy decision. Zetterberg is an awesome player and probably my favorite on the Wings, but we're talking about a 20 year old who won the Art Ross, the Lester B. Pearson, and the Hart trophy in his second year in the league. And as good as Datsyuk is, I'd give him up for a 6'4" 225 lb center in Lecavelier who can score, pass, hit, and fight and is coming off a 108 point season.

If anyone's interested, the NHL used to have the home team wear the dark jerseys (sweaters) until a rule change in 1970, which switched the home team to white. The idea being to introduce more color to the game with the visiting teams wearing their colored dark jerseys (sweaters) each night. http://proicehockey.about.com/cs/businesso...erseycolors.htm I personally prefer red at home just because I think it's a better looking jersey (sweater). Since I don't live in Detroit and don't go to games anymore though, I probably should be voting for the dark jerseys (sweaters) when they're away. EDITED to include old school translation.

Thank you. I'm pretty sure that red was the "traditional" home color long before it switched to white.

I know. It actually makes me laugh because people falling all over themselves to praise Downey here only goes to show how desperate we are to have a Red Wings player who will muck it up.

Exactly. Despite how invaluable to the team many here seem to think he is (for the record I like seeing Downey play 3-5 minutes and drop the gloves to stick up for teammates, but the praise here is a bit over the top), he is least likely to get picked up by another team. Funny how that works.

Yes and yes.

Very well put. It's why the whole thing stinks to high heaven.

I think maybe you misunderstood me when I talked about the cap space with the Lidstrom example. I didn't mean using that cap space to bring in someone during Lidstrom's "retirement." I meant you do without Nick for half the season, then bring him back but only have to pay half of his salary because he was suspended, so now you have more cap room to sign a better player at the trade deadline. The second half of the season you get your star defenseman back AND you can afford to rent a big name player at the deadline. In a situation for someone like Niedermayer, and to a lesser degree Lidstrom, it's not unreasonable. They've played for years. They've made tons of money. They've won Cups. But they also have families. It'd be nice to only play half a season and still gear up for the playoffs, even if it means you only make a measly $3 million instead of 6.75. This is not a conspiracy. I'm sure it started innocently enough, but come on. This stinks to high heaven. Of course I don't think approached Niedermayer and told him to fake retiring (like in my Lidstrom example) but if the guy wants a break from hockey after a long year, has made a ton of money in the past and is willing to go without for half a season, then it's a win-win. Scott gets a vacation, Burke gets cap relief. I think this opportunity presented itself and Burke figured out how to make the most of it. Even if no other GM did this, it's an abuse of the suspension rules. Those are for some non-cooperative player, not for a captain who can't make up his mind. And I don't think it's out of the question to see it happen in the future with another star veteran. They still want to play, but the season is a grind. And their team will probably be okay without them. Plust they've made enough money over the years that the loss of salary is worth the time off to rest and recuperate. Niedermayer will come back and play the second half of the season, and Burke will have saved himself a big chunk of his highest paid-player's salary. Just as several people predicted it when this season started.

I'm amazed how many people think Zetterberg will re-sign for less than $7 million. I thought I was already lowballing it at that amount. He doesn't sign for another season, and with the cap likely going up, or at least staying the same, him signing for less than 7 is a dream. the guy has been massively underpaid until now. He's gonna get his payday. that or he needs to fire his agent and hire Datsyuk's.

Early on, I'm sure he didn't know what Niedermayer's intentions were. But in spite of his ridiculous indecision, I'm sure Niedermayer felt some obligation to his team. It may not prove it in a court of a law, but it seems pretty friggin obvious to me. This is a different situation than Clemens. Niedermayer hasn't said he's retired and then come back. He's still "deciding." What information does he have now that he didn't two weeks into the season? Burke definitely turned lemons into lemonade by running this scam, and it wouldn't surprised me if there was a rule change to prevent other players from doing it after this season. Why not have Lidstrom think about "retiring" for a while this season. The Wings are on a tear so they could probably afford to do without him and still be in decent playoff position. Then once he's taken a few months being suspended without pay, he miraculously decides to come back for the second half of the season. I bet Holland would love to have that cap space it'd save come the trade deadline. But he's not a free agent. Not even an RFA. He's under contract with the Ducks for this season and next season. If he comes back to play for them this year, the Ducks should be on the hook for the whole season. It's an abuse of the CBA.

I'd be surprised if he made it into the hall, but bust??? Are you people serious? Yes there was a ton of hype around him, but I could only consider a guy a bust if he never showed near the amount of talent he supposedly had. Someone has already posted Lindros's numbers. how could you look at those and call the guy a bust? He was a monster when healthy and everything people hyped him to be. The guy obviously has tons of health issues, which is a major disappointment for a player of his abilities. But that doesn't make him a bust. Lindros did nothing he was supposed to do?? How long have you been watching hockey? Did you ever see him play? wtf else was he supposed to do? The biggest and only real detriment to his game his how fragile his health was. in 1996 he had 47 goals and 68 assists for 115 points in 73 games. 1.5 points per game isn't dominant enough for you? As I said, his constant health issues make him a disappoinment, but he's nowhere near a bust. You must have some beef with the guy because I can't see a hockey fan in their right mind calling Lindros a bust with a straight face.

At first maybe, but then I think Burke saw a golden opportunity. Niedermayer, in spite of being under contract, gets a nice long vacation while Burke gets much needed cap relief. Sure they have to keep that space open until he returns, but when he returns, they're only on the hook for the remainder of the season. It's almost like they're getting a top defenseman at the trade deadline, PLUS they've saved all this cap space to throw at other players. No one is saying it isn't legal. Or at least I haven't been. But it doesn't come anywhere close to passing the smell test. I can see him not knowing earlier on so Burke grabs Schneider, but still delaying his answer this long into the season with the Ducks "suspending" him while not having to pay his salary, then whaddayaknow, he's skating again and thinking about returning. As I said in another thread, we're not talking about some ill-behaved player not showing up for camp, or holding out for a contract. This is a seasoned veteran, an otherwise stand-up player, and the captain of the team. It's naive to think Burke didn't know Scott's intentions around the start of the season when he "suspended" him. While within the rules, it is still a total manipulation of the supsension and against the spirit of those rules. And just to be clear, I am not among those here who hate everything Ducks. I hate Pronger, but I like their style of play and I like a lot of guys on that team. And I don't think the Wings were somehow robbed of the Cup because of a few lucky bounces Anaheim got. But this whole Niedermayer thing is a bad joke.

That's my gut on it. The key is for these idiots not to pay players so much that it makes them untradeable. This kind of out will only encourage the behavior. Jeez, the lockout was only a few years ago and already the owners are trying to find ways to inflate players salaries. NIce work Burke. First the Niedermayer scam, now this.

Agreed. I can't believe anyone is surprised he's coming back. Once they started the season and he was "suspended" it was pretty clear he was just taking a long rest and he and Burke had it all worked out. I think several people here predicted a December return. What a joke.

It's a little early to be saying this is among the best he's ever played, but I think this is definitely the best Ozzy has played since he's returned to the Wings. It'd be a great problem to have if he keeps it up.

why, so he can focus on cheapshots?

- If you had to replace one Russian Five player for Pavel Datsyuk to play on that line, who would it be? Larionov. Dats fulfills a similar role. - If Chris Chelios retired before he went to Detroit, would he still be deserving of the HOF (You know that's where he'll be)? yup. - Is Sergei Fedorov a definite top 5 for all time TWO WAY PLAYER? He's deteriorated so much since leaving Detroit, it's hard to say top 5. But when he was on his game, he was one of the best. - Number 9 is probably the most legendary number in NHL history, therefore who is more responsible for this, Maurice Richard or Gordie Howe? Gordie - If... sorry... WHEN the Wings win the cup in '08, who should Lidstrom hand it to first? Chelios for sure. With the Cup win, you could pretty much bet it would be Grandpa Nasty's last season. - Henrik Zetterberg is on pace for 137 points, how close will he be from actually accomplishing this feat? 108 - If Igor Larionov and Pavel Datsyuk played together, who would be the goal scorer and who would be the playmaker? Neither, they'd pass it around for hours on end an never take a shot. - Zetterberg re-signing with Detroit when he becomes UFA is highly likely... How much will he sign for? around $7 mill depending on the term. - Rafalski or Schneider? Raf. - Out of every player on the Red Wings roster, which one is likely to troll LGW from time to time? Flip

He was pretty great in college. Some highlights from Red Wings Central # 2002-02 Hockey East Rookie of the Year Award Winner # 2002-03 Hockey East All-Rookie Team # 2003-04 NCAA top goals-against average (1.19, 0.57 ahead of Matti Kaltiainen at 1.76) # 2003-04 NCAA top save percentage (.956) # 2003-04 Set NCAA record for goal-against average (1.19) # 2003-04 Set NCAA record for save percentage (.956) # 2003-04 Hockey East First-Team All-Star # 2003-04 NCAA East Second-Team All-American # 2003-04 Hockey East Championship Tournament MVP # Made 36 saves in 2-1 double-overtime loss to Boston College in Hockey East semifinals. # Made 37 saves in 1-0 overtime loss to Minnesota in opening round of NCAA tournament. # Finished seventh in country with 1.92 GAA and .924 save percentage, and second with six shutouts. From what I've seen, he looks promising. But goalies are always such a crapshoot when you bring them up to the NHL. Hopefully he'll get a chance soon to play with the Wings. I'd rather watch a young kid get experience even if he struggles sometimes, than an aging veteran do the same thing. And more importantly, hopefully fans will give him a chance before they run him out of town.

He's coming back. He's just giving himself a nice long vacation. I'm sure he's already got it worked out with Burke. His whole "retirement" is a joke, and abuse of the CBA.

Because legal proceedings move at a snails pace. And Bert did his time for an NHL suspension, that has nothing to do with the settlement. 1 million is ridiculously low. Bertuzzi ended the guys hockey career at any level, and caused Moore to go through a long rehabilitation. Moore has probably already lost that amount in NHL salary. He was likely never going to be a star, but he had a good chance of being a grinder in the NHL. For a point of reference, Matt Ellis is currently making $475,000 and will make the same next year. So missing two years of play for a guy of Ellis's abilities, and you're pretty much at 1 million. Then add to that the injury and future earnings even as a low level player. And the NHL and Bettman especially would love to have this behind them and move on. This latest insulting move by Bert and his lawyers will only prolong the case and stir back up the publicity (evidenced by this thread).

I agree that the code comes in to play. If three guys challenge you to a fight in that game, you sure as hell don't have to fight. In retrospect of course Moore should've turned around and just gotten it over with. But Vancouver was a joke. They waited until the game was out of hand, and I'm almost positive these two teams had played since the Naslund hit. They should've taken care of it the very next game. Instead the game got out of reach, and Bertuzzi saw an opportunity to try and square things up one more time. ahh, I was waiting until someone would bust out the Naslund hit as justification for Bert's actions. I'm a little surprised no one has chimed in saying Bert stepped on a stick and fell on Moore. Yes, I'm sure this has nothing to do with you being a Bertuzzi fan. It doesn't matter if it was the punch or not that caused the broken neck. The broken neck was entirely because of Bertuzzi. Honestly it doesn't even matter if his neck broke or not. Whether it was the punch, or Moore losing consciousness and hitting the ice, or any other reason, all those things come back to Bert knocking Moore's lights out on a suckerpunch from behind. That punch and that event ended Moore's playing career. $1 million is a joke. He broke the guys neck, gave him a concussion and ended his hockey career.

The low side of that sounds reasonable to me. Maybe you should arbitrate Eva. Let's get this deal done and behind us! Moore already fought that game. Just because Bertuzzi didn't like the outcome doesn't mean Moore has to take on every guy on the team to be "fair." People also forget that the teams had played since the Naslund hit.

actually it's pretty reasonable logic in a negotiation. If they're thinking in the ballpark of $15 million, and they get offered one million and turn it down. The next step is often for each side to try and find a middle ground. It's how most negotiations work. to call them together and offer $350,000 when they've already turned down a million (rightly or wrong) is a joke. It's a total waste of time and an intentional insult. Like I said, they should've just called and said F you.