haroldsnepsts

As someone else pointed out, why are we talking about Legace? He's in St. Louis now. He's their problem now. The best thing for his career would be for him to put up good numbers in the regular season (until he wears down late in the season) but still have them not make the playoffs.

yeah, why would the Wings want a big forward with great playmaking skills who's a beast in the playoffs?? Of course they're interested. Like Holland pointed out though, cost and term are the big question marks. If he's healthy, I'd be okay with them signing him at the trade deadline. They signed Bertuzzi last year for chrissakes, and people have a problem with Floppa? He fits a lot of what this team needs. exactly. Put any combination of Zetterberg, Forsberg, Datsyuk and Holmstrom on the ice and you'll have opposing goaltenders drenching their fancy new Reebok jerseys with cold sweat.

It does make sense if they can't put together some decent second line, which remains to be seen. Right now there's a massive hole there. The option of having two viable lines, while still being able to put Z and Dats together if Babcock wants to, is better than only having one great line. Hopefully they'll sign someone or a couple players will step up and the Wings will have an actual scoring threat on the second line, so they can keep ZDH together. Otherwise it'll be a lot of fun to watch them in the regular season, but they'll get matched up against in the playoffs, particularly on the road, and the Wings will be exposed as a one line team.

it's like you're practically wishing Z to get hurt. Nice. Dats will be fine. It's early in the season still, and who cares about his shooting %. I'd rather he shoot more and have that be lower, because ultimately it will lead to more goals and assists.

Holy crap I can't believe they got him for so cheap. Wow. Nice job by the Flames. It's hard not to wonder if the Wings would've had a another Cup or two if they had a true franchise guy. New Jersey has Brodeur, Colorado had Roy. If the Wings would've had an equivalent, who knows what they would've done... I long for the day they have a true franchise goaltender so the carousel in net will finally spin to a stop.

so the real reason this line is hot is because of the guy with 13 points (2 goals and 11 assists), not the guy with 21 (9 goals and 12 assists), or that other guy with 8 goals and 6 assists?

I brought up malice in comparison to the hits like Boulerice. And it wasn't a headshot, it was a hit from behind. The blow to the head was from Bergeron falling into the dasher. Still a penalty, still worthy of suspension, but it's not like Jones delivered a blow to his head.

I don't think two games is that bad really. I would've preferred 3 or 4, but there was no malice in this hit. It was a bad play by Jones, but it's nowhere near what Boulerice did.

there's a lot of season left, but it would make me smile if Burke's man-love for Bertuzzi ended up biting him in the ass $4 million times for 2 years.

All I know is he has to shoot more, not less. There's already been several times this year where he was in a great scoring position but opted to try and make a pass for a spectacular play. He's got a great wrist shot. He needs to use it.

true, but that's not what happened in this case. Bergeron was going in to play the puck and was facing it the whole time. It's not like he suddenly turned his back. Jones clearly hit him on the numbers. EDIT: not sure if this has been posted yet. Jones gets two games per TSN

That pic was from last year. Stevie missed playing, so he snuck into the lineup and was signalling to the bench not to tell Babcock.

Read my post again. can you show me the part where I said he had never gotten retribution? I'll wait. take your time. read slowly... hmm, can't find it? Probably because I never said it. I actually said the exact opposite of what you just claimed I did. Probert exacted retribution countless times against opponents he felt had wronged him or one of his teammates. That was his role. I can't believe I need to try to explain this again. I was saying the I didn't remember Probert ever trolling the ice starting a fight out of the blue, as in unprovoked, as in it's not a chippy game already. Like a circumstance where the Wings were clearly going to lose, the game is winding to an end without incident, then Probert skates around chasing guys trying to get them to fight with him. The clip of the boston game shows only that the game was already nasty and out of control. like the multiple fights going on at the same time. That has nothing to do with what I said, and is extremely different than what went on with Thornton. Remember how you asked how the San Jose game was any different than the Boston clip? do you still not see the difference??? Probert lashed all the time, but it was provoked. There's probably a youtube clip of a toughguy getting in a fight with Stevie, and Probert popping the guy as a ref held him down. Not exactly honorable, which was never my claim. But he did follow the code. an enforcer squared off with a non heavyweight, and the star of the team no less, and Probert made him pay. But that's a world of difference form Probert going out at the end of the game and crosschecking guys in the back, chasing them across the rink. To make it simple, here's my original post on the subject of Probert: Isn't it pretty obvious that the Boston clip you provided falls under the distinction of a chippy game?

Do I really need to explain how those two games are different? For starters, did I miss a bunch of fights at the end of the San Jose game? Because the Boston game ended with multiple fights, so in my book, that's pretty different. but you seriously stand by saying that youtube clip proves me wrong somehow? Watch the video again. There were several fights before Probie even stirred things back up. Clearly this was a very chippy game before he got involved at the end. Then read my post again. In other words, it wasn't out of the blue just because they were losing. His teammates had been involved in several fights minutes earlier. And I bet Probert was on the bench just waiting for his chance to get at these guys who were fighting his teammates. If you seriously think that little youtube clip somehow disproves me saying I don't remember probert just picking fights out of the blue because the Wings were losing, then me thinks you have a tenouous grasp on reality or extremely limited critical thinking skills. Edited for clarity, since apparently things weren't clear enough.

people try to use Youtube as evidence way too much. How is this probert starting something out of the blue? Are you taking the homer announcers word for it? clearly they were already into it and several guys had already fought, including the captain. Boston and the Red Wings had some total team throwdowns around this time. This in no way disproves what I said. this is also the game where Stevie got punched in the face by a fan as he was leaving the ice. I agree people are overblowing the Thorton thing. As for Iginla, that's kinda might point. He's a legit middleweight fighter in my book, and usually squares up with guys. But to go after Schneider? a couple different times in the playoffs when the Flames are about to lose a game, Iginla skates around trying to pick a fight with anybody. To me it's sort of pathetic and I'm embarrassed for him, because he's an otherwise great player. I have. plenty of times. That's why I was saying there's a difference between retaliating when someone goes after you, and trolling for cheapshots. I've not seen Yzerman go cheapshot someone, but I've sure seen him turn around and try to lay a two-hander on a guy when he did something that pissed Stevie off. That's a lot different than just losing a game and acting like a 4 year old, cheapshotting guys because you can't handle losing. it's gotta be somewhere else or some famous quote then. I've never seen dodgeball.

I can't really take credit for it. I just can't remember where I plagiarized it. You make it sound like this happens all the time around the league. It doesn't. If a game is already chippy, things can get ugly when the score is out of reach, but I RARELY see players from the losing team trollling for cheapshots at the end of a game. The Wings hardly ever fight, but they aren't the exception here. I've been watching the Wings since the early 80s, and Probert was as tough as they come. But I can't think of an instance where he chased a guy across the rink for basically no reason, just to start something at the end of the game. Particularly a guy who didn't fight (like Iginla with Schneider). Probert was all about the code. And if someone got a beatdown or even a cheapshot from him, it was because they did something to one of his teammates. There's a big difference between chippy games that get nasty and the end, and just cheapshotting a guy because you can't handle losing. Sorry, a 6'1" 200+ guy who fights going after a 5'10" 190 lber who doesn't to "get something started" is pathetic. Especially from the captain. I know it's not the first time Iginla has done it, which is why I've lost respect for him. Let the enforcer on the team do that stuff. He needs to lead with goals, hits, guts. Not chasing a non-fighter across the rink at the end of his game. I can't see how that would fire his team up. It merely showed how desperate they were. As for Mickey's comments, I guess it depends on what kind of incidents we're talking about. Of course a game is more likely to get chippy when it's blown out. That I do agree with. More scrums after the whistle. More little hacks and whacks. I took this thread to be more about the bigger cheapshots. Pronger's elbows, and Iginla's actions. Which, while Iginla's goonery didn't really result in any injury, it just seemed so sad really. so desperate.

But they're the same thing. It's just a matter of timing and sometimes pure fluke that ends up being the difference between a harmless cheapshot and one like the hit on Draper. If anything, Lemieux was throwing a hit, which is a legal play, he just did it from behind close to the boards. Where a slash is always illegal. Of course everyone who is competitive gets frustrated. But as adults and professionals you learn to contain it., otherwise you end up with a bunch of Bertuzzi incidents. I've always believed that sports don't build character, they reveal it.

Holy crap. Philly once again. It was a hit from behind as he hit him square on the numbers, but didn't look like an intended cheapshot. He wasn't even looking at Bergeron when he hit him. Still a penalty though.

I agree that Drake with a cage on makes him a lot less useful. And he hasn't been off to a great start this year, minus the fights. OVerall though it's not just name recognition, Drake isn't supertalented but is a better overall player than Downey, even at his age. It'd be nice to have them both out there mucking it up. you even mentioned yourself the two giveaways a night. They haven't hurt us yet, but will eventually. Anything over 5 minutes is too much for Downey in my opinion. Keep him 3-5 max. I don't see Downey playing these kind of minutes when Drake is healthy. and while I'm sure Downey has some part in it, I think you're giving him way too much credit for this physical team. As someone else mentioned, I think it has more to do with how they played in the playoffs last year. They picked up where they left off, instead of going back to the wilting flowers they were during the regular season last year.

Iginla used to be one of my favorite players. He can score, hit, fight, play nasty. but I did lose a lot of respect for him with his constant gooning it up at the end of games. watching him chase Schneider all the way across the rink trying to crosscheck him was just sad really. Maybe now that Sutter's gone he'll figure out that he can play a tough game without doing lame stuff like that. Pronger is one of the elite I've lost respect for. Honestly I've never liked the guy, but thought he was a great player. I hated him like I hated Chelios before he played in Detroit. But more and more he's becoming a joke. A great player who's whiny, likes to throw unprovoked elbows from behind, and rarely drops the gloves. For those who were citing past greats and all their cheapshots, I think one of the big differences is those guys were sticking up for themselves. That's different than chasing someone across the ice at the end of a game that's out of reach. Messier was known for throwing some nasty elbows after he'd be run at. If you're gonna hit him, you're gonna pay a price. Even Stevie would throw the two hander if someone pissed him off. I would mention Tootoo but he's about as far from elite as you can get, and I've never had any respect for the guy. I think the big difference though Gordie is you weren't playing in the NHL. (were you? ) The season is long and they want their careers to be too. So no, I wouldn't respect or like some player on the Wings just running around slashing someone on the foot and potentially breaking their ankle, any more than I liked Pronger trying to put his elbows through the back of Homer's head to take him out of the playoffs. Now if McLaren ran at Dats and Pavel swung around and laid a two-hander on him, that's a different story. But a pro hockey player who can't handle losing to the point where he's running around cheapshotting guys, that's pretty weak. It's a very thin line between the kind of stuff you're talking about and the likes of the Turtle, Beukeboom, Simon. They're all essentially a pissed off player who can't handle losing. It's just in those instances the outcomes happened to be worse. A head turned that way, a back turned, another step this way, mostly fluke circumstances and a split second lapse in judgement turned them into massive cheapshots instead of the minor ones you're talking about.

Wings win. I gotta say though, what a boring, boring game. ugh.

that should be a Homer hattrick. A goal, an assist, and a b.s. call that waves off a goal and results in him getting a penalty.

the Sharks should've taken more penalties. They looked better on the PK than they did even strength. great comments by the announcer about the Sharks suddenly acting like they care with a minute left.

It's sad when the hardest hit of the game is when two players on the same team run into each other. The Wings continue their non-sellout streak.

I know. It's doubly bad because they not only wave off a legit goal, but the Wings end up getting a penalty. It's really getting ridiculous. If a goalie comes out of the blue paint to play the puck, that is not goalie interference. ouch. that looked painful. Hope Grier's okay.