haroldsnepsts

That's my main point. I'm not sure he meant to shoot it at Niedermayer. Obviously the puck hit him, but that doesn't mean that's where he was aiming. I couldn't even tell if it was deflected of the Ducks players stick in front of him (who did have the blade in the lane) A lot of people are looking at it like it's plain as day, but I'm not seeing clear intent. That's not to say he didn't intend to either. I just can't tell. If he intentionally fired the puck at Niedermayer, yes it was a stupid play and kind of a cheapshot. But honestly not that big a deal to me. I still think that if Cheliios had done it, there'd be a thread here about good old Cheli mixing it up again. I had never seen that before. that is a seriously funny clip. I love it when crap like that happens to fans that talk sh*t. Boo opposing players or whatever, that's fine. It's the fans who act all tough that I get sick of. Like they could survive for one moment in a brawl with the players they're jawing at.

First off, if you're honest calling slava Kozlov a goon, it's hard to take anything else you say seriously. Or even believe you've seen the Wings over the years, especially that you were at the game in question (which if you were, makes me think you're also a closet Avs fan). I don't think all your points are irrelevant. I was specifically referring to using a youtube clip of Kozlov to try and refute people saying the Ducks now are a disgrace. The two have nothing to do with each other. I agree that there are a lot of disappointed Wings fans here who need to get over it. It's disappointing they lost to a team I think they could've beat, but overall the Wings had a great season. as I pointed out in my last post, the Wings are far from angels. Bertuzzi, Cheli, Maltby, back to Cicarelli, Ulfie, Probert, Kocur, Vladdy... and even the great Harold Snepsts. They've all had their cheapshot moments.

Is it time for one of these threads already? Matt should install a counter on the top of this page that reads: "It has been __ days since we've had a Fedorov thread."

Could you show me where I said that?? If you look earlier in another thread about the Ducks, I've said they found a way to win and beat Detroit, whether or not they were outplayed. They were the better team. I didn't really notice it as much against Detroit, but I've been really surprised by how much interference they've been running (and getting away with) in the Finals. that's my only beef with them. Oh, and Pronger is a d*ck. those two things. Otherwise there's a lot I like about their team. Here's one of my posts: http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/index.ph...t&p=1091994

I see Grapes wore a conservative suit for American tv.

wow, another enlightening post. How about making a point or refuting an argument instead of trolling? And I think Pronger needs to hang on to the tissue, with all the crying he does. my favorites (paraphrased): "I got suspended because of the canadian media." "I have to leave Edmonton because it's my wife's fault."

crap! totally forgot the link! I'm not worried so much about being accused of plagiarism. Usually I provide the link so people don't think I'm making this stuff up! http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/playoffs2007...tory?id=2891998 http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app/?service=page&a...rticleid=314904 I guess the idiotmobile did too?

me too. If Chelios had done this, people would think it was funny. If Maltby had done it, it would just be "agitating."

That's a totally irrelevant argument. You use one hit by the Wings from years ago to refute the argument that the most penalized team in the league (who have also mastered obstruction) being in the SCF is bad for hockey? This thread isn't about the Wings being better than anyone else. It's about the Ducks brand hockey, which for the record I'm okay with a lot of their players. And Pronger is a dirty player. Look to the other thread where I listed all his suspensions over the years. I don't think anyone who's been watching the Wings can seriously believe they're a bunch of angels. We have Maltby and Chelios and now Bertuzzi for chrissakes. And we used to have Hatcher, and Cicarelli, and Ulfie. But it has nothing to do with this thread. Here you go: 1994 - Pronger suspended 4 games for hitting Capitals forward Pat Peake in the throat with his stick. (funny thing is Burke was the one who suspended him) 1998 - Pronger suspended 4 games for slashing Phoenix's Jeremy Roenick in the helmet. 2001 - Pronger suspended 1 game for leaving the bench and instigating a fight with Kelly Buchberger. 2002 - Pronger suspended 2 games for cross checking Brenden Morrow. The cross check left Morrow bleeding near one of his eyes. 2004 - Pronger suspended 1 game for kicking Ville Nieminen. (kicking? How wussy can you get?) 2007 - Pronger suspended 1 playoff game for his double elbow to the back of Holmstrom's head. 2007 - Pronger suspended 1 playoff game for his elbow to the head of McAmmond. So that compares to one cheapshot by a Wings player? Who was that anyway, Kozlov? Overall he's not exactly someone you would characterize as a dirty player. Personally I would've gone with Fedorov's crosscheck to the head, but your point still would've been irrelevant.

I don't see how you can get that definitively from any clip. He absolutely thought about shooting it from the blueline, then changed his mind and took another stride or two before firing the puck. But I'm not seeing any clear change of direction towards Niedermayer. He's still pretty much facing towards the net. Could've been intentional, but I can't say for sure. But I think it's getting waaay overblown. As we all know with Lidstrom in '02, it can't hurt to throw the puck at the net, even from center ice.

Finally saw the clip on youtube. Sorry, but I don't see what the big deal was. Kind of a d*ck move if he intentionally shot it at Niedermayer, but it's not even really clear from the clip if that's what he was doing. watch this Youtube clip with more obective commentating. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH9jvHxHWIY&NR=1

No. Any rule about suspensions having an impact on a players name on the Cup, or kissing it, or whatever they want to do with it, would only make the already spineless Colin Campbell even less likely to hand out punishment in the postseason.

I think that's the best and the simplest way to judge Bettman's effectiveness. Where the league was at in 1994 and where it is now. (R.I.P Kurt Cobain) :rockstar:

Exactly. It was a stupid cheap move by Alfredsson, but there's some hyperbole here in exactly how bad it was and what should happen to him.

1994 - Pronger suspended 4 games for hitting Capitals forward Pat Peake in the throat with his stick. (funny thing is Burke was the one who suspendded him) 1998 - Pronger suspended 4 games for slashing Phoenix's Jeremy Roenick in the helmet. 2001 - Pronger suspended 1 game for leaving the bench and instigating a fight with Kelly Buchberger. 2002 - Pronger suspended 2 games for cross checking Brenden Morrow. The cross check left Morrow bleeding near one of his eyes. 2004 - Pronger suspended 1 game for kicking Ville Nieminen. (kicking? How wussy can you get?) 2007 - Pronger suspended 1 playoff game for his double elbow to the back of Holmstrom's head. 2007 - Pronger suspended 1 playoff game for his elbow to the head of McAmmond. http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/playoffs2007...tory?id=2891998 Yeah, clearly Pronger wouldn't even stoop as low as to fire a puck at a guy's ankles. Edited: forgot to provide the link.

It's Bettman's job to oversee the owners and try to get them to act in the best interest of the league. Yes the owners couldn't control themselves, but a better commish probably could've avoided losing a season. Remember that Bettman was responsible for the deal that put the league so out of whack when he locked the players out half a season in 95. Much lke his inability to get the one vote needed for the two-thirds majority in changing the schedule. Instead it falls one short because of 11 greedy short sighted owners, and Bettman once again spouts to the press how fans love the current schedule. As for taking obstruction out of the game, Bettman denied for a decade that there was even a problem, saying crap how fans come up to him and say how much they love the game and quoting some fictional poll. It wasn't until he and the other idiot Goodenow caused the shutdown before they finally addressed the clutching and grabbing. And if you remember a lot of that was led by the players, Shanahan in particular. Not Bettman. You're excusing him and awful lot while at the same time crediting him with something he didn't start. With the instigator rule, the language you quoted is very different from how the rule is implemented. But that's just a minor point in my dislike for Bettman. I just don't understand people who give him a free pass. He is the commissioner of the NHL. Who else if not him is ultimately responsible for the state of the game? It's like saying Ken Lay and Skilling aren't at fault for running Enron into the ground because they're not accountants, it's a big company and there's a lot of people giving input.

The Ducks have clearly figured out the new NHL. If you take your hand off your stick to grab a guy, they'll call a penalty. If you reach out and hook a player with your stick, penalty. But if you run interference on faceoffs, on dump ins, behind the net, pretty much all over your defensive zone, BUT keep both hands on your stick, then 99 times out of 100, it won't get called. They're smart enough to take what the refs are giving em. And in the Cup finals, they're giving them a helluva lot.

Yes, if someone criticizes the game, it must be because they have a small penis. I've been a fan for over 20 years. I love the game. The article is correct in the downward trend of the sport's popularity from 1994 until the present day. Which not coincidentally pretty much coincides with Bettman's tenure as commissioner. And the major point you're ignoring is that Bettman is trying to make it a more popular sport, but the results of his actions have only marginalized it and relegated it to a niche sport, at best. Is that not a failure? His economic vision of the NHL has been a complete failure and cost me as a fan, a season and a half of my favorite sport. The only way I can see more than a few games is to buy DirecTV and get Center Ice. The more marginalized the sport is, the more obstacles there are to actually enjoying it because it takes so much damn effort and resources to follow it. I don't need everyone to love hockey. But I'm not gonna sit here and be all pollyanna about my favorite sport as I watch it get run into the ground by a Commissioner who knows nothing about and has no passion for the game.

The only reason it would be a disgrace if the Ducks won the Cup is because of the interference tactics they've been successfully employing, especially in the finals. so much for the new NHL. Even on Pronger's elbow, it's because he was trying to run interference on a guy when he didn't have good positioning on him.

That would be nice to have a closer team. I'm in favor of almost anything that cuts down on the Wings travel. Of course, it would also make it even more absurd for them to stay in the western conference than it already is for Detroit to be there.

True, but considering he elbowed a player to the back of the head in just the last series, and now is a repeat offender (in a very short span of time), he should've gotten two games. But alas he's a star canadian player in the NHL, so Campbell proved once again what a eunuch he is.

As others have said, it's a bad idea to have guys with razor sharp blades on their feet kicking at things. They changed the rule in the first place to allow it to redirect off your feet and still count as a desperate attempt to increase scoring. Probably, but it's the same reason they have the high stick rule. it's a bad idea to have players swinging their sticks at head level, just like it's a bad idea to have them trying to kick things with their skate blades.

Here's hoping the Sens do what the Wings couldn't. Make Pronger pay for his cheapshot, and use this as a turning point in the series.

Being suspended twice in the same playoffs for dirty hits tells me two things: Pronger always plays on the edge of being dirty (no surprise). The fact that neither hit he was suspended for was even penalized leads me to believe he's getting leeway from the refs. It's the Derian Hatcher strategy, which has proved effective. He does something that warrants a penalty practically every shift. Eventually the refs stop whistling him for every single thing and he starts getting away with it. Hatcher has removed players' teeth with a crosscheck to the face and not been whistled. Pronger now seems to move in that elite circle.

In general I agree that they've gotta keep hitting in the game. But there have been a ridiculous number of shots to the head this season. They need to crack down on all contact to player's heads, and not just because it was Pronger who was the culprit.