haroldsnepsts

I wouldn't call it dirty but I think it should've been an interference penalty. When you're going to cut the timing that closely, if the player ends up not touching the puck and you deck him, that's on you. It still in no way justifies Thornton's reaction. I just think Orpik should've gotten a 2 minute penalty.

I'll give you faster, though Draper had wheels too. But stronger and more physical is definitely debatable. Honestly, no. When someone refers to a player as "puck moving" I typically think they're referring to passing, not carrying it up ice themselves. I don't mean to get into a semantics discussion, just saying that's generally how i feel like it's used, and is generally applied to defensemen.

The facts do matter, it's just that a reputable source would've fact checked, then gone back to Commodore with the discrepancy before finishing the article. Not to make him look bad but just to point out the actual facts so he could know and comment on them. Because I agree that if it's an off the cuff interview he shouldn't be expected to remember all the exact details.

Ok. Apologies for making assumptions. There's just been a fairly strong sentiment around these parts that Babcock is the ruiner of this team. Babcock is in the mold of Bowman. He doesn't seem very interested in being liked and there's a method to his madness.

I know this thread is basically fishing for ways to blame Babcock, but Commie isn't a very good source. He's an entertaining guy but seems to have a warped sense of his actual ability level his last few seasons in the NHL. And as has been pointed out, his grasp of events is less than reliable. The reality ultimately is that the game left him behind.

Agreed. He played hockey in college and in the minors. http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=77536 I think he breaks it down pretty well and is usually pretty funny too.

I've linked to this blog from time to time because I think Justin Bourne does a great breakdown on some of the finer points of defensive responsibility in hockey. Things that happen so fast they're often easy to miss watching realtime. He shows that it's usually not just because of the goalie or last D-man that the other team scored a goal. It often involves multiple breakdowns earlier in the play. Anyway, this one breaks down a couple Wings goals against the Senators, and basically mocks the Senators because they all started by making a line change when they shouldn't have. The second goal nicely highlights a bad turnover by Karlsson followed by Tatar pulling a nice drag move on Karlsson, who makes a half-assed effort at defense. http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2013/12/02/systems-analyst-the-ottawa-senators-line-changes-against-the-red-wings-were-hilarious/#more-87877

Ansar Khan ‏@AnsarKhanMLive 1h Ken Holland said Helm's MRI showed fluid, which he said means either sprain or strain in shoulder. Will be re-evaluated Monday.

I think it has more to do with the league's flawed policy of heavily weighting outcome when deciding punishment. This was a very dangerous hit from behind. Schenn saw numbers the whole way and hit Abby anyways, sending him headfirst into the boards. Luckily Abby mostly landed before he hit the boards. Add to it that Abdelkader is a bit of a diver and I'm not surprised it didn't get a major. But if the league wants to crack down on dangerous hits like this they should put more weight on the hit itself instead of waiting for a guy to get his neck broken. The simple fact is Schenn cannot make that hit. If he sat for 5 minutes I'm guessing he's a lot less likely to do it in the future because his coach will give him an earful. To the second issue of diving. I don't want to derail the whole thread into a discussion of diving, but hits from behind are definitely an area where I've noticed an increase in diving. A guy gives you a routine little crosscheck from behind, you jump into the boards, kick your legs up and throw your head back, then look to the ref. Call it the San Jose special. The game is fast and the refs aren't going to see everything, and they can't even reliably tell by the way the player reacted to the hit. So it's hard to know if a guy just got crushed or he's pulling a Couture.

Ansar Khan ‏@AnsarKhanMLive 31m Babcock said Helm is out Friday with shoulder injury. Doesn't know extent. having MRI today

Agreed. And he stops just short of saying as much. It's probably that implicating the line change made three goals fit neatly under one topic. But on that third goal the line change would've been fine had they pressured Helm at all instead of giving him the redline and a crazy amount of room to work. If Borowiecki steps up to doubleteam Helm with Neil, this goal never happens. If Corvo wasn't hypnotized by the puck and actually looked for trailers, this goal probably never happens. This is my favorite image from the breakdown. You'd think Helm was flying and pulled a crazy move to burn three guys in a row. Then you watch the replay and realize how lazy that coverage was. Helm wasn't even skating that hard.

I won't get to see the game tonight, but while it's on everyone put your collective heads together and try to will Wayne Simmonds into becoming a Red Wing. I've been a huge fan of the guy since he was a rookie with the Kings.

Anyone in particular you had in mind? Strombone ‏@strombone1 29m You sure about this @HLundqvist30 ???

Ludqvist is a great goalie but as has been mentioned, he's 31 years old. Given they maxed out the term, that doesn't look like a discount on amount. EDIT: I realized that since it's re-signing a player they could've gone to an 8 year term, but I think the point still stands.

I think that's overstating it a bit. He brings some defensive value and he's not the only person I've seen shy away from hits, but it is easy to forget just how big he is. The guy is 6'3" and 216 lbs, which makes him the second biggest Dman behind Ericsson, but he plays much smaller. If he gets caught with a big hit retrieving the puck in the corner it usually seems to get him off his game.

I had almost successfully forgotten (or blocked out) that the Red Wings have a $10 million fourth line.

Some of you guys are making it sound like Weiss started the season on the 4th line with Cleary and Sammy. I can never remember the stats site that shows linemates but he spent time with better linemates to start the season and earned his way down the lineup. This is a guy Babcock expected to put up 50 points. 28 games into the season he has 3.

At the time he was the first 1st round pick they've had since Kronwall, and as you mention the highest pick they've had since Marty Lapointe in 91. So I'm guessing they had much higher hopes than an inconsistent bottom pairing guy is all I meant. I realize that prospects are largely a crapshoot.

I wonder how that conversation goes: "Good new kid! They liked what they saw in your cap hit. You're getting called up to the big club!"

I disagree that he's been better this season. He's taken a bit of a step backwards. Kindl is coming up on 27 years old on his 4th season in the NHL yet is plagued with the same issues he had in the minors. He's not terrible but as a 1st round pick at 19th overall, he's a disappointment to say the least. He's a serviceable d-man who has never realized his potential. There's the off chance a change of scenery will allow him to take that step forward. If the Wings got rid of Smith but kept Kindl (unless Smith was part of a package for a major star) then they front office has definitely gone off the rails.

Kindl is going nowhere? Why exactly? He's pretty much the perfect spare part to throw in as a bonus on a trade. Agreed.

From Khan's article on Mlive: http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2013/12/red_wings_henrik_zetterberg_wi_2.html

Weber would be a fool to take himself off the ice for 5 minutes to go with any of those guys. Any star player who fights should basically be a spot picker, so they either take an equivalent guy with them, or it's a rare occasion to stick up for a teammate.

All right, let's get back on topic and stop the personal attacks. I'm hungry and don't want to have to spend time suspending people.

I'm sure he has respect for the game and while he's not exactly Raffi Torres, losing your cool and slamming another players head into the dasher isn't exactly showing a lot of respect for other players. You're going to have a hard time convincing people here otherwise, and understandably so.