haroldsnepsts

As a preemptive warning, let's keep the conversation well away from any political discussion. This will likely go down the same road as the NFL. The central issues are really accepting risks to play versus understand exactly what those risks are. And if the NHL did anything to actively hide those risks. And on a side note, man Rick Vaive is a name I haven't heard in a long time. Brings back memories of the Leafs Wings rivalry in the 80s.

You called the statement one of the dumbest things you've read on the forums. Sure it's technically about the statement but obviously also insults the person who made it. If you disagree with the someone's post, you can argue against their point without the value judgement of its worthiness. Now let's please stick to the topic at hand. If people can't discuss the case without being civil towards one another, this thread will be locked.

Ericsson and Abby would absolutely get offers. Lashoff and Miller likely would too. You also have to remember that nearly half the league is jammed right up against the cap because of the new CBA. If Holland had left himself some room he might've had some leverage in deals for a change.

In terms of protecting players heads, the league has been wildly inconsistent (even more than their normal rulings) in how they deal with elbows to the head. I don't think this was like Chelios flying at Propp or anything, but it wasn't accidental either. Cowen clearly chicken-winged and clipped Dats in the head. Now one of the most entertaining players in the NHL is missing games with concussion-like symptoms and we're waiting to see if it means for a few games or if this will impact the rest of his career.

I missed the game but glad the Wings got the win. I did see the highlights. WEAK penalty shot call. I think that has actually surpassed goaltender interference for the most inconsistently called penalty in the NHL. Helm looks rust still. A couple brutal turnovers lately. Not ready for the pass back a couple times in good scoring position. And Z is an absolute beast. So wish he got that wraparound in.

I agree that the toughness is in part a reaction to last night, but I don't think it's a complete red herring. Part of the issue is the Wings simply don't have the talent to play the system they did 5 years ago or the draft picks to get those players. They need to adjust their playing style that's less dependent on the high skill level they had then.

Ott's a weasel but doesn't really scare me much. In terms of injuring a player I'm much more concerned about their John "Frankenstein on skates" Scott. Some stats on the Sabres: Goals Per Game: 30th Goals Against: 26th Power Play %: 23rd Penalty Kill %: 21st Please beat these guys tonight.

If you want to see a team that's truly bad, look no further than the Sabres. That being said, please don't let one of their few wins come against the Wings tonight.

You know Keczmer had to be crapping his pants when Kocur was going after him. Fun to see Yzerman getting his own retribution against a scrub player for taking a run at him.

Last night was incredibly frustrating and I know people think the Wings suck. But they don't. They're not going to dominate but they're in a lot of these games to the end. Painfully to the end. Like the Detroit Lions style of "you think they're going to pull it out but manage to screw it up" kind of games. The roster and cap situation is a mess but Babcock is a great coach and the season is long. A few small changes or improvements could get them on the other side of these games.

Agreed. To be clear, the problem is larger than signing some tougher players. That's really just one element. The key of what I meant is what I said in the last paragraph. It's not so much about last night, but the bottom six desperately needs to be something other than a junk drawer. It would do wonders to have a 4th line that put the opposing D-men's face in the glass all night, as Babcock says it. That chipped the puck behind them shift after shift saying "go get it, I'll be right behind you." That crashed the net and made someone try to move them. That kept the puck deep, cycling in the corners, hitting players whenever possible. The Wings have enough pieces to put together a decent top two lines, even with some struggling players. But there's far too much scrap metal sprinkled throughout the lineup.

I agree about Bert, but it also says a lot when the Wings rely on a 38 year-old with a bad back to be a deterrent of any kind. Like when he dropped the gloves to go with Weber after the head smash on Z. Good on Bert for doing it, but I also felt kind of bad for him. As I've mentioned before, it'd be nice to have someone like Jordan Nolan on the 4th line like the Kings do. He's 6'3" 227 lbs, will drop the gloves with anyone and is a pretty effective grinder who will score a few. You know when the Kings 4th line is out there. And Nolan is only 24 years old, drafted in the 7th round. Dwight King is another one, taken in the 4th round. He has more offensive upside than Nolan. It's not like the Kings got them because of high draft picks. There are guys out there. You occasionally have to pick them instead of a non-physical skill guy. To try and head off the inevitable enforcer argument, I'm not talking about the Wings getting a John Scott. But it would be nice if they at least had a 4th line with some size and grit, and would make people answer for playing against the Wings like the Sens did last night. Even before last night many of us have been saying how the bottom 6 are a collection of spare parts instead of one that has a mission and identity when they're out there.

Not that anyone necessarily would have done anything, but because of the position of Cowen when he elbowed Datsyuk, I don't think anyone could really see what happened.

Here's a clip of the elbow. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAh4bU1dnTE

Source: http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2013/11/red_wings_pavel_datsyuk_out_fo_2.html

Yeah, without LTIR I know it doesn't help cap wise, but I wasn't sure if they needed that with DD on LTIR and Tootoo and Eaves waived. I thought it was just roster spots. but honestly I get pretty confused about the roster/cap implications of all these moves.

More bad news: Ansar Khan ‏@AnsarKhanMLive 12m Wings said Pavel Datsyuk won't play Sunday at Buffalo after taking that elbow to the head from Jared Cowen. Ansar Khan ‏@AnsarKhanMLive 12m Wings are taking necessary precuation with Datsyuk, in case he has concussion. This too: Ansar Khan ‏@AnsarKhanMLive 12m Ken Holland said Daniel Alfredsson will replace Datsyuk in the lineup. Alfredsson missed five games with a groin pull. Weiss talked about he and Alfredsson lobbying to play tonight. Now that Dats is out Alfie is ready to go. It sure feels like there's an element of roster management with these injuries. I'm not saying the guys aren't injured. But when they get into the lineup sure seems to be a little shady.

Good point. I forgot that was a 5 on 3.

Did Lashoff just knock down two guys at once?

terrible hybrid icing call there. Macarthur was flying.

That's a nice 5 on 3 play by Ottawa. Good shot by Ryan. They capitalized on their 5 on 3 chance, Wings didn't.

Ah, I thought it was for emphasis. In my defense, earlier in the thread someone blamed Cleary for Datysuk's -3 the other night, when Cleary wasn't on the ice for any of the goals. So it's hard to know when someone is exaggerating for comedic effect.

huh? Cleary has played 10:58 Nyquist has played 10:27 Weiss has played 9:18 Helm has played 9:11 Tatar has played 8:50

I don't know. When you have a player like Neil there's really no reason for him not to. The Wings have smallish forwards and no one to really make him answer for it. So it's a pretty good strategy to run guys and get in the face of Zetterberg and Datsyuk whenever possible. As Mick mentioned earlier, they've factored in to 45% of the Wings goals. Taking them off their game gives you a great chance of winning. Maybe. Helm's didn't look like much either but like I said, I've not seen Helm dive like that. Franzen on the other hand... you could be right.

I don't usually agree with the penalty for knocking the stick out of a guy's hand, but when you take his glove off too it looks pretty bad.