haroldsnepsts

I'm so confused. But Sammy and Bert are signed with NTC's and 35+ contracts. He'd have to get rid of someone more like Tootoo and Eaves. And he'd likely lose them and get nothing in return.

Somewhat old news but I figured people may be interested. http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Winnipeg/2013/09/10/21112876.html

Who exactly do you think decides ice time on the team? You think Cleary hops over the boards on his own? If he was as bad as you make him sound he'd be watching from the press box. Instead he's getting big minutes because he's a dependable utility guy and Babcock had few options. That's where Kenny "NTC" Holland deserves some blame. The Wings have needed a top 6 guy for a while and Holland's solution was Bert and Sammy. But nah, you're right. I'm sure it's some personal bias with Babcock and not about trying to give the team the best chance at winning. He seems like a pretty soft guy who's overly sentimental with players.

The lionshare of the criticisms of Mule come back to one point: his lack of consistent effort from shift to shift and game to game. It's been pretty clearly stated in every thread where his name comes up. And Flip avoided most criticism due to his consistent effort. People just wished he'd scored more. So your argument as to why Babcock played Cleary in clutch situations in spite of all his obvious flaws is: 1) personal reasons 2) baseball? I think I'm done here. Cleary did everything that was asked of him. People should be angry with Babcock and Holland, not Cleary.

Just came here to post this. what the heck is going on? Let him go Kenny.

I think because the poll asks two different questions. I would say him being the biggest x factor makes sense. But most crucial to success? that's the top pairing.

That's a bummer. Now he won't get to test out his back during camp.

It's not a cop out argument. If Cleary is as awful as people here claim, constantly falling down and turning the puck over, why does Mike Babcock, who is a great coach, play him in crucial game situations? I'm not talking about occasional mistakes. Of course as a coach he's going to make those. But he consistently used Cleary in clutch situations. That says something about Cleary's ability and the faith Babcock has in him as a player. When you're getting empty net goals because you're on the ice at the end of close playoff games, that means something. Which is why I've said it's time he moves on. But that doesn't erase what he did here. I wouldn't say I'm worked up. Maybe cranky in my old age? Just surprised and disappointed how Wings fans get so much joy from bashing a heart and soul guy like Cleary instead of just saying thanks and moving on. It's become sport here.

Ahh yes, Cleary's points were inflated because they weren't "legitimate." If only Flip had gotten so "lucky" he probably would still be a Wing. An empty netter in a one goal playoff game isn't legit? Cleary's empty netter against Chicago came when he was the only one on the forecheck and disrupted the outlet pass from Duncan Keith, leading to the turnover. Then the puck comes back up ice to him and he gets it past two guys from the faceoff circle. Not to mention, your discounting his empty netters overlooks the fact that Cleary was so often on the ice at the end of important games. If he is as awful as you say and constantly turning the puck over, why would one of the best coaches in the NHL have him on the ice in such a clutch situation against the President's trophy winning team (and eventual Cup champion)? The goals that were deflections off his body are from going hard to the net and screening the goalie. On one Abby threw a weak shot from along the side boards that deflected off Cleary and went in. Are you saying Abby should get the credit for blindly throwing the puck at the net from a bad angle, while Cleary shouldn't get any for screening the goalie? The whole reason the puck got by the goalie was Dan Cleary standing right in front of him. I guess when Homer did it you didn't count those either? Because Lidstrom would probably have 50 more goals in his career without Homer getting "lucky" and having the puck hit him. But rather than nit pick all his points, the heart of it is this. If he is anywhere near as bad as everyone says, why did Babcock use him so much? Why did he keep putting an old broken, turnover machine on the ice at the end of so many important games? Why did he push for Holland to get Cleary re-signed? I guess he's an idiot because there can't be any other simpler, more logical reason. Yet somehow in spite of Babcock's idiocy, most fans agree the Red Wings overachieved last playoffs. Strange. I guess he got lucky. Him and Cleary. It's definitely time for Cleary to move on and let the kids play but it's unfortunate he became the whipping boy here in his final season from a fan base that largely considers itself superior to much of the NHL's. Maybe he's going to Philly because the fickle nature of the fans there seemed strangely familiar to him.

And Smith.

I don't know a lot about the Flyers situation but aren't they over the cap and roster limit? I would've guessed Cleary was going somewhere with both roster and cap space. Then a 3 year contract makes a lot more sense. If that report on Holland's offer is accurate, he made a much more serious bid for Cleary than I would've guessed. And honestly I won't fully believe this deal is true until it's confirmed by someone other than just St. James.

Given that it's too long of a term for a guy Cleary's age and injury history AND has a NTC, I'm kind of surprised Holland wouldn't match it. That's his kind of deal! Seriously though, he took too much crap around here for doing what was asked of him, but with the Wings already having old injured goats with NTC's, Cleary on a crowded roster just didn't make sense anymore. The young guys need to get ice time, even if there's gonna be growing pains. The downside is the Wings lost one of their only players who went to the tough areas of the ice and drove to the net every shift. That's how he got those "lucky" points. I don't know what Philly is thinking but good on Cleary. Hopefully his body holds up and he can keep contributing.

Does that mean the Canucks will finally pay him the money they owe him?

No significant damage, but still terrible news. Is this guy ever going to play in the NHL again?

One of the upsides of playing for the Wings. The past players who may drop by the locker room. Though I guess in Florida he could've run into hockey legends like Scott Mellanby?

It's hard to say because frankly them all playing well is crucial to the Wings success this season. There's somewhat of an x factor up and down the blueline, though less so with Kronner and E. I voted Dekeyser though because if he stepped up and played great it could have the biggest change on the defensive corps. as dobbles said, it could really solidify the second pairing. Smith is a close second for me.

He's not doing a good job for the fans, as they just want to watch quality hockey. For owners though it's mostly about the money. Bettman can say publicly to the fans about how the league is in dire financial straits due to players salaries, but the guys who actually know the full financial condition of the NHL just gave him a raise. And I'm guessing it's not because they're losing millions of dollars.

Honestly I am shocked too. Last I heard the NFL is approximately a $30 billion industry.

1995 lockout ended before the season started. 1997 lockout ended before the season started 1999 lockout resulted in 50 game season 2011 lockout resulted in 66 game season By that measure Stern is already doing a better job than Bettman, nevermind that basketball players have much more leverage in negotiations than hockey players due to the popularity of the sport. Either way though it's pretty much pick your poison. Stern and Bettman used to work at the same law firm, Proskauer Rose. That law firm represents management in labor negotiations for the NBA, NHL, NFL, and MLB, so get used to more lockouts. It's not a coincidence the NBA and NHL have been using similar strategies and tactics.

Regular season - Weiss Playoffs - Franzen

There's a modern-era precedent where someone who's been with the Wings for 8 seasons and won a Cup with them has had his jersey number taken by someone on a one-year deal at the end of his career? It's all a moot point anyway. Cleary isn't coming back. This.

This is in no way true. Even assuming Franzen's standard deviation was much lower and his point production during the regular season is more consistent (I'd have to see the math to see if that's actually true), that has little predictive value in what kind of points he will put up as a 40 year old. Not to mention, I'm assuming we're talking about regular season because it can't possibly be true of Franzen's playoff performance.

Here's a pretty good read on why this seemed kinda nutty for Chicago to do given Crawford had another year on his contract. In short, they signed him to a new one right after winning the Cup when his value is at its absolute highest. http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2013/09/03/corey-crawford-gets-a-six-year-36-million-contract-from-the-blackhawks-but-is-anyone-really-sure-why/#more-85637

That's kinda my point. His paycheck or his cap hit? Last season his paycheck was $5.25 million.

True. But the Wings did not hand out an 11-year extension based on how he was when he entered the league. They did it during his beast mode playoff years. And while he earns his cap hit now, will he in 3 or 4 years? That's the problem I have with people referring only to his cap hit and saying he's a value for the money while ignoring term. If it were a 5 year contract it would be more true, but his contract is a cheat. His cap hit is artificially low because of the length and backdiving. So right now I agree $4 mill a year isn't so bad for his production, but it comes at a cost because short of him retiring early to Sweden, the Wings are paying $4 mill a year until 2020. What will the 38 year old $4 mill a year Franzen look like? I don't really know, but based on his effort as a 33 year old, I'm not optimistic.