haroldsnepsts

Franzen has said a fair amount of stupid things in interviews, so I'm trying not to read too much into it even though it is irritating. My bigger concern is Playoff Johan hasn't been seen since 2010. The last three playoffs he's been below a .43 Point Per Game pace. Mule had three explosive playoff years, but those may have been an aberration, not anything close to what could turn out to be his normal production. It used to be people would excuse his taking shifts off by saying "wait til he goes beast mode in the playoffs!" Now it's turned into "for the cap hit he's still not bad." I'm pretty sure the Wings were hoping they gave an 11 year extension to a guy who's a lot closer to a point per game playoff scoring than what Mule's been scoring the last few postseasons. Yes, I know for the cap hit he's not terrible. But given his streakiness and lack of compete level as a 33 year old I have to wonder how that $4 million a year will look in a couple seasons.

He certainly hasn't the last couple seasons.

The problem is that Mule often bails out from in front of the goalie before the shot arrives. He's got the size and hands but I don't know if he has the fortitude to face an oncoming shot like Homer and Cleary did.

Generally I agree, but I'm sure someone on the team has told Franzen more than once that they want goals from him. He may not consider himself a goal scorer, but the Wings need him to be one. When the Wings look up and down their roster for who they need goals from, Mule is at the top of the list. The Wings have needed a sniper for several seasons now and Franzen is the closest thing to it. Franzen's mentality should be rip a shot on net and use that big body to go after it if it doesn't go in. And as others have mentioned, he didn't get an 11 year contract extension due to his hustle. I don't want to read too much into one quote from him but if that's truly his mentality then it's no surprise he seems to be especially streaky and score in bunches. It's seemed like when one goes in for him, Mule remembers how fun it is to score and tries to do it more, but then that fades. True goal scorers have that desire all the time.

It's not just the jerseys that are awful. Who the heck is in charge of marketing for Team USA?? The team photos from orientation camp are worse than school pictures. http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/10-most-spectacularly-awkward-u-olympic-glamour-shots-190110715.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

I came into the thread thinking people often overreact to things like jersey changes. But holy schnikey those things are ugly. It's strange that Nike would go with that, since it's so reminiscent of the K-swiss logo.

Back to Alfredsson practicing with the Senators, Brendan Savage mentioned this in an article about Helm: http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2013/08/detroit_red_wings_darren_helm_1.html I know it's a different situation with Alfredsson, but in general I don't think it's as big of deal to the players having former teammates work out together. Wonder what jersey Flip wore?

Exactly. I think there's still room to shrink pads and keep goalies safe. And as you point out, the catching glove is insanely large. I'm all for taking further attempts to reduce the size of goalie pads. Better that than some other rule they come up with to try and artificially increase scoring. Or worse, increasing net size.

Link? Because the last thing I saw from Khan regarding Cleary's contract was the exact opposite. Has he changed his tune? http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2013/07/red_wings_questions_readers_wo.html Cleary had a somewhat down regular season though a very good playoffs, but with a glut of forwards to sign and the cap going down, I find it hard to believe that Holland offered a 34 year old, injury prone Dan Cleary the top end of what he's ever been paid as a Wing. If that were true Holland is as big of fool as Cleary would be for turning it down because Cleary's role and production certainly wouldn't be going up the next three years on the Wings. Being over the roster limit and neck deep in forwards, you can rest easy. Cleary isn't coming back. Unless Holland swings some big trade and that better be to bring in a big name player, not make room for Cleary.

Care to make a suggestion of your own that meets the OP's requirements?

Cleary. No one could replace Homer's skills in screening and deflecting pucks but Cleary picked up a lot of the slack left by him. Fearless in front of the net, retrieving pucks from the corners, not afraid to go to any part of the ice. And Cleary gave a lot more to this team than veteran leadership. To be clear I'm not saying the Wings should re-sign him. They're neck deep in forwards and I have doubts about Cleary's health going forward. But the vitriol for him here was ridiculous. People acted like it was Cleary's fault he was getting PP time and not a shortcoming of the roster. He's a warrior and was second on the team in scoring behind only Zetterberg. And those points weren't luck. You make your own luck through hard work, which Cleary did every shift. What he did wasn't pretty, but it was effective. My point was in terms of how people talk about Cleary, it's reminiscent of how they talked about Homer near the end, only worse. It's always interesting to see what players become almost like a mascot here who can do no wrong, and how people start to sour on other players and it quickly snowballs.

An aging vet who falls down a lot but plays fearless, does the dirty work, and is all heart, yet in spite of that people act like he's total garbage and can't wait to kick him off the team? hmm... that sounds strangely familiar.

Definitely. He's always been inconsistent, but he seems to have fallen apart.

Well, he did score an own goal (was it the first Wings SCF goal?) off his butt. That's the thing with Fleury. He'll make an incredibly athletic save, but then in the same period let in a backbreakingly bad goal. Unfortunately the athletic Fleury made an appearance there.

Still a heartbreaker but he didn't shoot it into his chest. MAF made an athletic save. There wasn't much net to look at.

That's how I remember it as well. He got more money and ended up with more icetime there too. He took a lot of flack his first stint in Detroit but he was a great value for his contract and a key part of the offense. I don't fault Sammy at all for coming back on this contract. I fault Holland for having such a fixation on former Wings and throwing in a NTC to what was already a good contract. Sammy's production is unlikely to go up at this point in his career, even if he stays healthy. The upside is he shoots the puck (all shinpad assassin jokes aside), he's a righthanded shot, and he's irritating to play against. My guess is he won't produce/stay healthy enough to earn his contract, but for better or worse the Wings are stuck with him. Hopefully he contributes.

Agreed. 2009 was a heartbreaker for sure, but they'd won 4 Cups in ten years. Their run in '95 seemed like it was finally going to be the Wings year after such a long drought. When they got demolished by Jersey, it felt like they were condemned to never to win it again.

He didn't sucker anyone while on the Wings. He did dive and had a couple questionable hits, but really it's only the diving that bothered me. My point was he can hold his own in fights, which is impressive for a little guy, but I don't think many guys who drop the gloves fear squaring up with him. And to clarify, I don't think he's useless, but in the way he fit on the Wings, he essentially was. I think Tootoo has often been a defensive liability when he's out there hitting, and with Babcock that means a lot of sitting on the bench. I also think people overstate his offensive potential here. He gets the occasional garbage goal around the net, but otherwise his only move is breaking down the right side and ripping a shot from near the faceoff dot. I wouldn't take 100 players like Tootoo over Miller and Eaves, both those guys are big penalty killers, which is something Tootoo doesn't provide. That frees up Dats and Zetterberg from being on the PK as much. But I've always thought Eaves and Miller are so similar it would be nice to have someone who brought a more physical game in one of their spots. And Emmerton at this point is really just a plug. I didn't hate him here on the Wings, but it was a bad signing. Overpayment for what he brings. And it's pretty obvious he's not the kind of player Babcock was looking for. And it's not like Babs shies away from guys who play gritty.

Regarding the inevitable fighting discussion, I think there's a distinction to be made between preventing all out cheapshots a la Matt Cooke, and being a deterrent to guys running around and agitating all game without having to answer for it. One example that comes to mind is when Bertuzzi fought Shane O'Brien twice in the same game against the Predators a couple seasons ago. They were running the Wings all game. After that, not so much. Having a guy that plays 6 minutes a night to fight isn't as much of a deterrent anymore, but if you have someone playing fairly regularly who's also willing to drop the gloves, I think that absolutely can be a deterrent. Many times I've seen an agitator throttle back a little bit after the prospect of getting punched in the face becomes a real threat. It shows you won't be pushed around, and no one likes getting punched in the face. Some thoughts from Wings players and coach after that Predators game, which I think explains the concept well. http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2011/04/todd_bertuzzis_fights_with_sha.html I think staged fights are mostly garbage. A side spectacle by enforcers who usually don't have much else to offer. But players sticking up for themselves and keeping from getting run, or the "keeping the flies off" as Babcock puts it, yes please. That being said, I don't think Tootoo provides a ton of deterrent. He plays such a limited role on the team, I'm guessing because when he's most effective hitting and agitating is also when he's least effective defensively. And while he's a good fighter given his size, I don't think he puts the fear into many people, other than being afraid he'll suckerpunch you.

It's not so much that no one wants them then it is they both have a NTC. Re-signing Bert with a NTC, signing Sammy with a NTC, overpaying for Tootoo given his term. Holland is now paying for his mistakes in 2012. It'll be interesting to see how the forward situation shakes out.

I'm guessing even if Alfredsson had his Wings jersey, he wouldn't wear it to a practice skate in the Sensplex with his old teammates. That would likely be seen as rubbing everyone's nose in it. No matter what jersey he wore, it was going to get attention.

per Khan: http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2013/08/detroit_red_wings_agree_to_two.html

It doesn't sound like it's even that specific. The policy is for anyone buying tickets to any game against the Hawks, so they're punishing their own fan base as well.

Unless there's more injuries, it doesn't sound like it. http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2013/08/red_wings_center_darren_helm_s.html I'd be surprised if Helm's back isn't at least a question mark for the first half of the season though, so I could see them trying to hang on to Emmerton as a plug.

Holland did well this offseason, but he's also handcuffed himself with the NTC's he was handing out like candy in previous years.