haroldsnepsts

I'm not ignoring facts and I suggest you choose your words carefully if you'd like to continue this discussion. We can disagree without the smartass comments.

6 more points? sure he probably could have, which would put him at 41 points for the season. That's pretty close to the 35-40 points I've been saying. But really who knows what he would have done? Maybe he goes on a hot streak and scores 2 goals a game for 27 games. Maybe he fails to register a point for the entire rest of the season. I'm talking about the points a player has regularly put up, not extrapolations. Health factors into that.

I was going by the number listed at the top of TSN stats. So call it a 7 year career. He's scored 66 points once. Otherwise he comes in around 35-40 points per year.

I'm not arguing his PPG. But that doesn't make him a 50 point per season guy. In terms of points actually produced in games that were actually played, in his career Flip has generally put up 35 to 40 points. I'm not wrong about that.

I'm talking about real numbers. Not extrapolations from ppg.

Coyotes needed scoring but that's a surprising dollar amount. Wings need scoring too but i'm glad it won't be coming from Ribiero.

So Franzen, who has outproduced Flip virtually every year they've been on the team, is barely a top 6 guy? Franzen is lazy at times but that's a gross exaggeration of his abilities otherwise. He can and does absolutely make plays, cycle well, and score goals.

He scored 66 points, not almost 70. And if you're asking for the kind of money he allegedly is, you need to produce near that for more than one season. For most of his 8 year career, Flip has mostly been a 35-40 point guy.

From a player's perspective I can understand wanting the 4 years, but that's a long term for someone who plays the game the way Cleary does.

Agreed. But doesn't Jersey have a lot of money to throw around? At least in terms of cap space. There's always the question of whether they can actually pay their bills.

Don't forget the No Trade Clauses.

Age. Brunner has a potential future with the Wings. Alfie gives Detroit a season or two and then it's time to find yet another replacement for the offense with Dats and Z even older.

Alfie still is a good player. Looking just at him coming to the Wings, there's a lot to like. For me if he's a one of a few moves, then this could be great. If this is Holland's only move, then not so much. Potentially losing Flip and Brunner and signing a 40 year old Alfredsson and relying on Sammy and Bertuzzi going forward. We'll see how it all shakes out though.

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 6m Multiple sources suggesting Daniel Alfredsson not likely to return OTT. DET appears to be frontrunner. Stay tuned to see where this one goes I can't say this was among the top moves I'd hoped Holland would make. Will be interesting to see if it really happens.

My theory is he was asked to play a bigger role than he probably should have at this point in his career so he struggled at times. Combined with his type of game being not being very pretty. Then once you become the whipping boy here it doesn't really matter what actually happens on the ice. Cleary was 2nd on the team in playoff scoring and people try to dismiss all his points. If it's so easy why couldn't Franzen, who's much bigger than Cleary and wasn't playing with a separated shoulder, manage to get to the front of the net "and have pucks hit him?" Or Flip for that matter? A big part of the answer is because Cleary is willing to do what Homer did. Pay the price to earn his spot in front of the net and stand there as someone rockets a slapshot at him. If you watch Mule, he often spins out of the way before the puck gets to him. As I said before, if Cleary is re-signed and he ends up playing a lot of minutes on the top 6 and PP, that's not his fault. That's Hollands. Cleary's larger role on the offense is a symptom of a bigger problem, but it doesn't make him a bad player.

In case it hasn't been posted already, it's official. http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2013/07/carlo_colaiacovo_clears_waiver.html Colaiacovo cleared waivers and was bought out. It gives the Wings $2.5 million of cap space and the Wings pay two-thirds of his salary $1.9 million. So he made whatever his pro-rated $2.15 mill for last season was, plus another $1.9 for playing a total of 6 regular season and 9 playoff games as a Red Wing.

yup. seconded. Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun 1h Briere informed the Habs 15 min ago. Two years, $8 M deal

If the Kings were going to lose Scuderi I'd be happy for him to go to the Wings. He doesn't get enough credit for what he provides on their blueline. It'd be interesting because he's a defensive #2 guy, similar to Ericsson but more experienced. So you could have Kronwall Scuderi, Ericsson-Smith, Kindl-Dekeyser? Plus Quincey and Lashoff somewhere in there. Even buying out Cola and letting White go, there's a logjam on defense. But hopefully they'd move someone in a deal for a forward.

Good point. Apologies for letting my hate for Torres derail the thread. back on topic!

Again, I'd be interested but I can't see the Wings and Bruins making a deal when they'll be in the same division next season.

The link is working for me. Not sure why it isn't for you. hmm. http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/story/2012/04/18/sp-nhl-torres-hit-history.html I'm not sure how to post it and not have it get shortened. You can google "CBC Torres hit history" and it should be the top result. Or "Raffi on the rampage" which is the name of the article. Regardless, seizures are a strange scary thing. Stoll is a good player and extremely important to the Kings. Hope he's okay.

Not really. Torres has a long sordid history. These aren't mere accidents and reputation calls. Does he get a few of those reputation calls? Sure. But he's more than earned his reputation as a dirty player. Now that San Jose has signed that dirtbag I hope they continue to win nothing in the postseason. And with the Wings in the East they'll be less exposed to his headhunting. Here's a pretty good list that doesn't even include this seasons. http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/story/2012/04/18/sp-nhl-torres-hit-history.html

Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun 40m Wowsers. Van trades Cory Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick. Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun 37m Word is Canucks and Devils agreed to Schneider deal Saturday night Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger 15m Gillis said he did not speak with Luongo before agreeing to Schneider trade. I'm kinda stunned. I can't believe how Vancouver has handled their goaltender situation.

Kronwall has definitely had a few questionable hits. For guys that hit a lot sometimes things happen in a fast game. Torres, however, has gone far beyond that. The guy's a serial headhunter and a dirty player.

I agree. I think Cleary is a symptom, not the problem. He plays on the top lines because Holland hasn't supplied that younger, healthier, legit top 6 forward. And I don't know that any of the young guys are there yet. That's why Cleary being re-signed or not isn't a big deal to me in and of itself. It's about what Holland does with that top 6. If he re-signs Cleary thinking he should be a regular in the top 6 and on the PP, then I have a problem.