Heaton

It's more than last year.

I don't doubt that for a second but these are big boys and can carry that lead without a Dallas Drake being around. I'm sure Kopecky and Helm learned some things watching and playing with him too, they don't need to see him as an every day lead dog to continue the trend. I'm guessing we'll go through the season with McCary and/or Downey and then at the trade deadline pick up a veteran grinding forward for the cup run. Well no kidding, which is why I'm a little baffled as to why people are still talking like this isn't the case.

You saw what you wanted to see in that series, but whatever, we've had this conversation before about the reasons. The Wings wore down Calgary and San Jose last year, we imposed our will onto them. Drake was a huge contributer in the playoffs this year but we still win the cup without him. Big bad Anahiem got rolled by Dallas and we inturn rolled them up like we always do. You don't get the WCF within 1 minute of taking a commanding 3-2 series lead by being soft, that's a fact. There's no debating that we lost to the eventual Stanley Cup Chmpions, but come on harold, the Wings get no credit for that? The Wings aren't contenders now that Drake retired? They can't win without him? That's basically what you're saying. Of course the Wings were tougher last year and they'll be tougher this year with a full year of Stuart. But they're also better, better offensively, better defensively, better all-around. The Wings know how to win in the playoffs and have all the tools to do so, and that's all that matters.

That may as well be ancient history, we may as well have a thread about needing secondary scoring to go along with this one. The past two playoff and regular seasons have dispelled any questions about whether or not the most effective way to beat the Wings is to hit them hard and watch them not give up. The opposite has been happening, the other teams have been withering. Staying the course is something to talk about, but acting like the last two years didn't happen in the playoffs is another. I'm not saying you in particular are acting this way, but good lord who's system is working better than the Wings as it stands? Nobody. People are so worried that the Wings are going to be so vulnerable this year for whatever reason, someone that guys want WILL be there, but it won't be a McGrattan or someone of that ilk but the person there will do the job as needed by THIS team. Not every team philosophy is the same and not every system would work for every team. People thought the way Anaheim played would make every team copy them, well that's impossible you need so many things to go right to win like they did. Same with the Wings, no other team can pull off what the Wings do in their system.

They're waiting until Filppula is signed to see how much $$ is left for him. Locked.

The point was, considering the hatred and fights in the regular season, during the playoffs the fighting was almost non-existant.

Godard, Parker and Shelley were routinely scratched the past few seasons usually when Downey wasn't in the lineup. Not always, but pro-actively scratched on more than a few occasions.

Heh not to mention go back and look at how many fighting majors there were in all the playoff wars between the Wings and Avs.

You said the "physical" role, both those guys will do what Drake did during the regular season. Drake stepped up his game big time in the playoffs, but during the regular season he was nothing to write home about. McCarty is all but signed, as he said today. I don't see any room for another guy like him especially at the expense of one our younger players. If Downey AND McCarty are signed I can't see any situation where they both play in the same game, there just isn't that many expendable players on this team.

That's Kopecky or Helm.

That I'm fine with, hell, teach Kronwall a lesson by trying to hit him or a different Red Wing. Personally I don't think anything will be taught to Kronwall by someone trying to fight him.

I meant up in the 30 range where people feel the entertainment would be.

Doggy, he was talking about players in the game who throw tantrums after clean hits, not message board posters.

Kronwall has been laying people for as long as I can remember and there's only been one instance where someone actually went after him and all that resulted in was some pushing. If Kronwall does leave his feet and someone feels slighted I'd expect Stuart to step in before Kronwall as he's a more experienced fighter and that's more in his job description. I've had the same opinion about clean hits as NN for a while now, seems like every single above average hit is expected to be answered these days, for people that want "old time" hockey a clean hit was respected back then, not overreacted. The Wings answered the bell almost everytime last year, just as much as would be expected. If Downey were a regular enforcer the fight total would be up but he's smarter than the regular enforcer and picks his spots unlike a guy like Parros or McGrattan who fight just to fight. McCarty just said today that he's going to be back, so there's your 1.

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2008/07/mc...rn_to_wing.html Bob Wojnowski: I think Stoney asked you, but I'm curious, is there anything new, because Ken Holland has worked his way through a lot of the deals he's had to do, and stuff, anything new on your situation? I know you're still hopeful to return to the Wings, anything new? Darren McCarty: Yeah, I believe that both sides are hopeful, and we're trying to work out, really, the, just the, a couple of little things on it, but I'm sure something will get done, and hopefully somewhere pretty soon. There's really not a, you know, big thing to negotiate on back and forth, so it's nothing that I'm really worried about.

I don't like seeing the Wings have to kill off a 5min penalty. 10. For fighters of all sizes: Learn where competitiveness ends and chaos begins. I didn't set out to have 324 penalty minutes. There were too many major penalties and game misconducts in there. I crossed that fine line too often, and I guess I'm still learning where it is. In Nashville, I lost the fight to Hordichuk -- my first loss all year -- and I got really pissed off and pretty much just lost it. I pushed a linesman, got a 10-minute misconduct and a game misconduct. Wayne got ticked off at me and sent me down to the minors for a week. You talk about a wakeup call. Why would anyone want to mess with his own career like that?

He was sent down because he shoved a ref.

Then you'll be waiting for a long time. We won the cup with our discipline, not running around like idiots and starting fights for no reason, it serves no purpose for us. You probably love Dan Cacillo right? And we all know Wayne Gretzky loves his tough guys, then why was it that he was sent down near the end of the year and when he came back he was wearing a choke chain? If Carcillo had any discipline he could be a very, very effective player and I'd love him on our team.

Because you're not absorbing what people are saying. The majority of people are agreeing with you that Downey can do some good, but you are off in the deep end believing that we need to add a bunch of enforcers for pure enjoyment and to change the mind of message board posters.

Why do we need that? It wasn't a problem last year or the year before. I'm almost shocked that you still buy into the myth that if the other team gets physical with the Wings the Wings will just cower and back down, but that doesn't ever happen. If every tough guy thought they could just run around like idiots doing whatever they want, they'd do it every night. Any idea why they don't? Because they can't and the Wings players don't allow it. Did the last two playoffs prove nothing to you?

No one believes that. Ken Holland does. Mike Babcock does. Our biggest strength is our depth, dumping Samuelsson or Hudler for a couple 4-6 minute guys hurts in the regular and post-season.

And they still dread playing us, every. single. time.

Yet you feel the need to argue against how the Wings do business eh? Interesting. True or false, you want the Wings to change their style of play merely for your enjoyment and not because it will make the Wings more successful. And by change, I don't mean stay exactly the same from last year, I mean trading away players like Samuelsson, Hudler ect... for people who will drop the gloves even though the people who matter view them as vital cogs in our present success.

^^ This is the type of insight that I can buy into, some good substance. I'm not sure what people are worried about there's going to be a Downey type on the team one way or another.

The Wings just won the cup and there's no other team close to Detroit as it stands right now. Morale victories are for losers. Those fans and announcers have a very narrow minded view of the Wings and at the end of the day it's irrelevant as long as the Wings continue to be as consistent as they are. After all of that, what does it say about those supposed "tougher" teams who get routinely beat and battered by the Wings?