Heaton

He was an RFA.

Anyone remember who was on Hossa's line in '06-'07 in Atlanta?

That's Todd McLellan.

Believe it or not you can say both without contradicting yourself. Studying for tests in school is important, but they're not completely necessary to pass a test if you know the material well enough. Enforcers can have importance if you decide to have one on your team, but if you decide not to invest the time and money into one, it doesn't mean it's that much harder.

Err, what exactly are you asking for in this instances then? After every shoving match after a whistle you want a fight? The Wings slash, cross check and face wash players after most whistles as well. Ask other fans around the league, the Wings are viewed as one of the dirtest teams in the league in terms of under the radar plays. This is why these debates always fail and are not worth the time. Do you actually read the posts or just skim and respond? Perhaps the point has gotten across now. There's no argument against it, but you're pigeon-holing the season by placing so many accolades to Aaron Downey. As for reasons the Wings won the cup, Aaron Downey is near the bottom. I'm not about to completely discredit Aaron Downey's role on the team, but other teams have won without an enforcer and last season the Wings would've won the cup with or without Downey playing in the regular season. One of the main reasons for your pro's of having an enforcer is limiting the amount of injuries going into the playoffs. I'll say it again, the two seasons prior to this one after the lockout any injuries going into the playoffs wouldn't have been prevented by having an Aaron Downey in the lineup. You're viewing my posts as if I'm anti-fighting. That's not the case. I just don't get embarased when the Wings don't have 30+ fights in a regular season like some fans do. That's not a reflection of how the team is looked at by other teams and players, that's a fans inferiority complex. Do you think after the Wings win 55 games and have the best PK and lowest GAA they give a s*** if they only have 15 fights? Ask Lidstrom how many fights the Wings last year, I bet you he has no clue. But you're right, it's a morale thing, it's a sense of security to a point. But this team has shown that when really needed, they have guys who will step in.

That's nice and all, but I asked for times when an actual cheapshot took place because I can't recall more than a couple instances and some of them were on guys like Kopecky. It's obviously a polarizing debate but I don't agree with you about having an enforcer reduces the amount of cheapshots, it doesn't do as much as some people let on. I've agreed that they have importance in the regular season but the amount of importance I still feel is very debatable. In '06 and '07 when we didn't have an enforcer, the injuries the Wings had going into the playoffs had nothing to do with the lack of an enforcer.

You miss it from when? Fighting has never been prevalent while the Wings were dominating the league. Another thing too, I really liked when Downey did last year and will be happy to have him or Mac back. I like the idea of sticking up for your teammates, having a guy like Downey to boost morale ect... They have qualities that are really beneficial. The thing that I don't agree on is when people bring up the need because of all the "runs" players have taken at our guys the last few years. When? What illegal plays have been made on our players? I know 'enforcers' don't just respond to the dirty or borderline dirty but for the most part the Wings respond just as well as any other team in the league. Osgood and Hasek got bumped and possibly run and no one really did anything every time, that's life. Last year Calgary fans were screaming at their team to stand up for Kipper when he was getting run, Godard was in the lineup and nothing happened. I think the whole retaliation thing has gotten out of control. I'm a hypocite and I'll say that even though I think it's lame for people to cry over every clean hit, I've cried over clean hits as well. Enforcers can be somewhat important for the regular season, I think we all agree on that, but for the most part, the want for an enforcer is for entertainment value and less about actual team importance.

Wait, how is Chelios taking away icetime from any of the young kids when he's not going to get any icetime for himself?

I don't think I implied that.

Nope. You're thinking of JP Dumont.

It was a lot more than just an arbitration case with Avery and Cammalleri. Afinogenov is still with the Sabres.

We saw what happend when Jason Williams asked for more than he was worth.

Red Wings general manager Ken Holland said Filppula did what was necessary to protect himself in negotiations, which will continue over the next couple of weeks. No date has been set yet for the arbitration hearing. “There are mechanisms in the CBA that protect the player and the club,” Holland said. “We now have to determine whether we want a one-year or two-year award. In the meantime, I’ve talked to Bill Zito, Filppula’s agent, a couple times today and yesterday. We’re going to continue to talk and hopefully we can find a solution. We do know he’s going to be under contract by late July or very early August.” Holland said he’s had plenty of players file for arbitration but has always found a way to get a deal done and he hopes to do the same with Filppula. Holland said he they were “in the ballpark” on a short-term agreement, but they have also been talking about a long-term deal. “I’m open to anything if it makes sense,” Holland said. “My feeling is I try to take the emotion out of the equation. It’s business. Fil and his agent have to get a deal they feel real comfortable with. I have to get a deal that’s real comfortable for the Red Wings.”

Are you familiar with the word negotiation?

Filppula's game will never be based around 'fantastic' numbers as much as you want to mock him for whatever reason. Seems like some Wings fans, no implying you I guess, act like if players don't take the first offer available they're disrespecting us for some reason. Has there been a report that Filppula is asking more than he's 'worth'? Has there been anything said that negotiations were going south? Do people forget how good he was in the Finals? I'm not saying to overpay to keep the guy, but all he's ever said was he wants to stay. In a week or two when he signs a 2m> contract, this'll all be forgotten anyway.

Or Holland could just sign him before the arbitration hearing.

http://proicehockey.about.com/od/nhlfreeag...arbitration.htm NHL salary arbitration is a tool available to settle some contract disputes. The player and team each propose a salary for the coming season, and argue their cases at a hearing. The arbitrator, a neutral third party, then sets the player's salary. Also, unless I'm mistaken, doesn't this mean Filppula isn't eligible to sign an offer sheet from another team now?

He's just as good as Cleary, younger and has more upside. He'll get at least 2.8 and is 'worth' as much as 3.5m. I think we all forget he's a 2nd year player and his role hasn't even been fully expanded yet. This was his first year any offense was expected from him.

Probably won't be signed for a few weeks still.

Kopecky was leading all forwards in hits before he blew out his knee.

And who did we lose from last year? Dallas Drake? Kopecky fills in just fine. We still have all the grit from last year and then some.

Eye openers in what sense? I agree that the Wings will carry some sort of enforcer whether it's Downey or McCarty, but outside of the Lidstrom thing which was clean I seriously can't think of any other instance where teams have 'run' our best players. For instance, Zetterberg getting hurt was a hockey play. Franzen's injuries were hockey plays. The role of an enforcer is definitely something good to have in the regular season but most of the times people get all bent out of shape for the Wings not 'sticking up' for each other its an overreaction. Besides, Babcock isn't the type of coach who'll put McCarty or Downey in for the fear of something happening. Babcock is going to ice the best team possible every night. Obviously McCarty, Downey or someone else will get games in just on a rotation basis but I highly doubt when we play the Ducks or Phoenix it'll be a conscious decision to dress Downey to fight McGrattan or Fedoruk.

There's one spot for Downey or McCarty, Drake will retire.

Cool.

No I don't think Quincey is better than Lilja or has the potential to be better than him this season. The thing is, there's no way in hell the Wings go with 3 or 4 rookie defensemen going into the season. Rafalski, Kronwall, Lidstrom, Chelios then Quincey, Meech and Ericsson? No chance that ever happens. The kids will get IT this season, but they won't just be handed a spot.