Heaton

He had a serious shoulder injury.

I really haven't had a problem with any of the new jersey's.

Wasn't it Lidstrom who made a bad pinch in the game 3 of the Calgary series which led to Iginla scoring the eventual game winning goal? The only difference is that the Wings ended up winning that series. Bad plays happen, that game shouldn't have even gone to overtime but Franzen's bad clear and a fluky flutter shot off of Lidstrom's stick made it possible. Placing the sole blame on Lilja is irresponsible. One bad play doesn't erase the facts, Lilja is better at defense than Schneider is. As long as it's a half ice game, Lilja is better, but the whole package? Schneider is better.

If that's the case, why was Lilja playing over 3mins of PK per game during the playoffs while Schneider was only playing like 40 seconds? Schneider is not known for his defense, Lilja is a far more steadier defensive defensemen and a defensive minded coach like Babcock knew that from day 1. Even during the regular season Schneider was playing 1:41 of PK per game, obviously when the stakes go up Schneider isn't used on the PK while Lilja is. Lilja is not the better overall defensemen, I'm not saying that, but in a defensive situation I'd rather have Lilja out there than Schneider.

If we're going by pure defense and not the whole package of offense and defense I'd rank it like this: Lidstrrom > Niedermayer Rafalski < Pronger Kronwall < Beauchemin Lilja = Schneider (remember, defense only) Chelios > O'Donnell Lebda/Quincey/Meech = Hnidy, I can't think of a plausible argument to really say that Hnidy is that much better than either 3. Sean O'Donnell was protected all year by Pronger and Niedermayer, his previous spots weren't nearly as rosey as his short stint in Anaheim.

Holland produces, the Lions don't.

Nothing really, all common knowledge stuff.

None of those stories are helping their respective sports in any way and I highly doubt anyone in the NHL wants that kind of publicity.

I'll take a stab at this, there's plenty of programming that ESPN has pushed over the years, the MLS is the latest, same goes with the WNBA. When ESPN had the NHL it was an after thought, a butt of jokes and when the NHL turned their back on ESPN it seems that ESPN turned it up a notch to try and undermine the NHL and turn people away from it with the snide comments on Around the Horn or those two morons on 1st and Ten. ESPN had the responsibility to try and promote a product on their station and they decided not to, they'd show a small window on some telecast about log rolling saying there would be hockey on Thursday nights, there was never a real attempt to try and help the sport like they've tried and succeed with other things. I'm not blaming ESPN for the NHL not being where it wants to be, far from it, but I'm not going to just accept the fact that ESPN has done almost everything they could to hurt the game of hockey after the NHL left because it wasn't a cash cow like poker is for them. My main problem with ESPN is just how they allow their employees to bash the NHL on a regular basis and now they're wanting the NHL back on ESPN? How is that going to work? Is Skip Bayless going to say "haha I was kidding, I love the NHL?" I mean s***, they're CRAMMING David Beckham down our throats, think they'd do the same with Sidney Crosby if they still were showing NHL games? Doubtful. ESPN has turned into what MTV turned into when they sold out and stopped actually playing music, it's a joke and I'm a hypocrite because I watch it every day. Instead of posting about truly legit, factual criticism, how about we see some legit, factual positives that ESPN has given the NHL? Convenience is about the only thing I can think of.

Are you sure you're looking at the 2007-2008 Detroit Red Wings roster? There's more worries about skill players and goal scorers than almost anything else this year.

Hudler is there even with Samuelsson in the top 6, the guy who will be trying to take his spot is Grigorenko and I'd guess he'd have it before too soon. Filppula will get his mintues, just not in a top 6 offensive role. I'd guess he'll get 14-16 minutes a night on the defensive side.

Not really defending him as much as it is trying to explain to you what exactly Samuelsson is but you and others seem to not want to accept it. Samuelsson makes 1.2m/yr, take a look at the other players who make that much and then tell me what people should expect from him. You're just expecting too much, it's like expecting a gourmet dinner by going through a drive through. Samuelsson is expendable as soon as someone does his job better than he does, albeit through trade or Grigorenko, Hudler or Filppula outplaying him, it'll happen eventually but until then Samuelsson is exactly what he is. When healthy he's a 20 goal 40 point getter who doesn't make too many defensive mistakes and can be servicable on almost any line. Samuelsson isn't Jason Williams, he isn't soft on the puck like Willy, he didn't turn the puck over when playing the point constantly like Willy and he doesn't take as many stupid mistakes as Willy. Yes they both scored 20 goals and played the point but the similarities stop there. I wanted Samuelsson benched before the playoffs last year in favor of Hudler, but that was when we had Lang, Bertuzzi and Calder who filled those slots, now if we want to get a 40pt physical player who isn't particularly old we'd have to shell out over 4m a year. Samuelsson is exactly the type of players you need in this day and age, cheap pluggers who fill in until your young guys prove they can take the reigns and do it better.

Do you really think that if you're a certain height you should be expected to be a physical player? I'm not exactly sure what his height has to do with anything.

It's a valid comparison, before Holmstrom got onto the Datsyuk/Zetterberg line he was a 15-20 goal scorer, before Samuelsson got onto a line with Zetterberg he wasn't even a 10 goal scorer. Of course Holmstrom is a better player, but the fact remains that Samuelsson is a 20 goal scorer on this team and not even Datsyuk AND Zetterberg together is going to turn him into 40 goal scoring power forward. Your expectations are too high.

No he shouldn't, Samuelsson is what he is, he doesn't have the talent to be a 40/40 guy. Since Holmstrom plays with Datsyuk AND Zetterberg shouldn't he be a 50/50 guy since he's potted 30 the past 2 years? You need to put Samuelsson the player into perspective.

All of a sudden? Samuelsson has been a 20 goal player since he was signed in Detroit, I'm always baffled by people who want 20 goal scorers but are surprised when they don't score in the other 62 games. Samuelsson is a top 6 player on this team until someone starts producing more than him. Even if Hudler continues his pace, Grigorenko will have to outplay Samuelsson for Sammy to not be needed on one of the top 2 lines. It's not an ideal situation and I wish we had someone else to take his spot, but the truth remains that Samuelsson plays well with Zetterberg and isn't a liability defensively.

I've given my position, if you don't remember go back to the earlier threads. I feel toughness has more to do with being able to take a check, going into danger zones and playing through injuries than fighting, the Wings displayed all of those qualities last year in the playoffs. Don't bother making a long winded response though, I'm not going to do this again.

Not your definition of toughness at least.

They wouldn't trade him regardless, in two or three years a #4 defensemen will make a lot more than 3m/yr. It won't matter though, Kronwall has all the tools, he's displayed it at every level including the NHL level just not over long periods of time. This season he'll take a step forward, I'd bank on it.

I disagree, I'm obviously a big Kronwall fan but at worst Kronwall turns into a very capable #4 defensemen and his contract is on par with most #4 defensemen in the league. At best he's a very underpaid #2 defensemen, which he should be by the time Lidstrom retires.

In this day and age, Samuelsson is a top line player. You want to have guys who are cheap that can fill out the top 6 who can play in all offensive situations. Samuelsson has been a 20 goal scorer since he got here, had he not gotten injured last year he would've scored 20 goals again, that's about what you should expect from the guy. There's nothing wrong with Samuelsson on the 2nd line.

Well, as much as I respect Nill he isn't the coach and the article I just posted doesn't comply with what Nill said in that nhl.com article. It could happen, but from the guy who actually makes the lineup decisions that's not what he's saying.

Well it certainty is cute how the only way to address the situation if you don't agree with it is to mock it. To start off the pre-season Babcock said the lines will look like this: LW - Datsyuk - Holmstrom LW - Zetterberg - Samuelsson Cleary - Filppula - Draper Maltby - Kopecky - Drake Lidstrom - Rafalski Kronwall - Lilja Chelios - Lebda/Meech Of course it's only a preliminary thought about line combos and it will change 50 times from now until the first game of the season, but I'd guess Hudler would go with Datsyuk and Franzen with Zetterberg. Grigorenko will be on the outside looking in until Babcock finds out what he's all about and then go from there where I'd guess Franzen would move down and Grigorenko up. http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article.../708190690/1053

Try using more words in the past tense, Hudler is already penciled in on one of the top 2 lines according to Babcock.

Flavor of the month.