Packer487

Holy Mother! 16 straight losses you've seen? I went to 3 straight Packers losses at Lambeau and thought I was a jinx. Good God.

On the bright side, I didn't see games 1 and 2, and we won. I've seen games 3 and 4 and we lost (And come to think of it, Nashville scored goal #1 tonight right when I turned the game on). I can't watch Game 5 because I've got my own hockey game, so I'll catch it on the DVR. If we win, I'm more than happy to take one for the team in Game 6.

So it was irrational of me to suggest a second option for some blame? Because by and large, I've only seen one factor mentioned thusfar. That and I was half-joking. I guess I don't really know what my reputation on this board is beyond the fact that I really like and respect Dominik Hasek, but I at least assume some people remember that I'm not a huge fan of Ken Holland. So I made a joke about something that I do feel is a legit point.

It's incredibly short-sighted to say that Dom cost them the last two games. He didn't play all that well, but he didn't "cost them the game". I still don't think 3 of the 4 in Game 3 were his fault. The first one was tipped at the last second, the second was completely unstoppable, and the fourth was an amazing shot into a very, very small area that he had to shoot at. Tonight Dom hurt them worse than he did in game 3, simply because of the timing of the 3rd goal and how bad it was. That being said, even as well as Osgood played tonight, I think he would've been hard pressed to stop either of the first two goals. The first one was a cross-crease one-timer that the guy got upstairs. It would've been an amazing save to stop that. The second one, Drake was screening him, there were two guys in front of the net, and I'm pretty positive it hit Kronwall in the butt and deflected to the right side of the net. No one in the world reacts that quickly. Because of that, two goals by Detroit more than likely wasn't going to be enough to win this game. The offense (tonight) played a big role in us losing. You're not going to win too many games when you only score 2 goals, especially when at least one of the ones you allowed was completely unstoppable and would have been on the board no matter who was in net. I've been pretty clear about what I thought about the 3rd goal in each of the two games. I'm not sure how many times you want me to say it. It was why I completely supported the move to Osgood tonight and why I think he should start Game 5. The pucks just aren't hitting Dom right now. I'm sure you've had stretches like that. I've been pretty clear all along that I thought Osgood would do just fine if he got his shot. But if the team doesn't play better in front of him than they have in front of Dom, it really isn't going to matter. They seemed to play better when Osgood came in (some of that was the fact that he made some good stops) and hopefully it carries over to Game 5. There are plenty of players who deserve a finger pointed at them. Hasek hasn't been good in these last two games (I didn't see the first two, but I heard he played really well--surely we're not blaming a goalie for a bad bounce off the glass). Stuart has been horrible. Kronwall has had some pretty idiotic plays. Chelios made a rookie mistake on the 4th goal in Game 3. Lilja was terrible and got himself benched. Zetterberg has been invisible, as have Franzen, Clearly, and Flip. Sammy has been himself. Babcock hasn't exactly been coaching the lights out. Holland effed up by not getting a forward at the deadline, because we pretty clearly could use one or two right now. Have I missed anyone? I just think it's pretty lazy to completely point the finger at the goalie, but I guess that's what Detroit fans do. He definitely deserves some of the blame for the last two games, but not nearly as much as he's getting around here.

You think it's irrational to suggest that we probably could've used a forward at the trade deadline?

Find a post where I said it was. I was pretty clear about my thoughts on that one. It's about as acceptable as scoring 2 goals on 40 shots and having like 2 forwards come to play.

He did have 13 points in 18 games after he got traded to Washington. He hasn't done much in the playoffs, but he definitely could've helped our second power play unit. And the Caps gave up nothing to get him. I still think it was basically criminal to not acquire a forward at the deadline. I'm just saying, if everyone gets to blame Hasek, it's only fair that I get to blame Holland, since our second PP unit clearly sucks, and yet again we're having issues putting the puck in the net. Hopefully things change. It'd be nice for guys like Z and Flip to wake up at some point.

Since everyone else gets to blame their favorite whipping boy, I guess it's only fair that I get to point out that it sure is a good thing that we didn't acquire Fedorov or Prospal for basically nothing at the trade deadline....

They'll play Osgood and they should. The team looked a lot better with him in there and he made the saves we needed him to make. I don't think Hasek has been as bad as the majority here, but unless that third one got tipped (Mickey didn't think so, CBC apparently did) that was a horrible, horrible, momentum-killing goal that has to be stopped. But scoring two goals on 40 shots isn't going to get it done.

He definitely looks good. I wouldn't have a problem with it. We need to score more than 2 goals though. Seriously, this is stupid.

Yeah, six shutouts? Anyone could have done that. Back to back shutouts against our archrival when we were in win-or-go-home situations is nothing. You totally could've pulled that off. So could any goalie. We were one questionable call away from likely making the Finals last year (and we would've smoked Ottawa). Can't really say it hasn't worked out. Dom's played for us in the playoffs twice and we won the Cup and made the conference finals. Hard to complain about that.

Shut out once and scored one goal twice? We had 5, 4, 1, 3, 2, and 2 goals. Not that it really matters. It was clearly a good move to pick up Hasek when we did.

1 goal a game, 2.5 goals a game...pretty much the same thing. And we actually outscored LA in that series. That said, it was time to put in Osgood. The pucks weren't hitting Dom for whatever reason, some bad bounces (the puck hitting Kronwall's ass for one), some bad goals, and the team as a whole was playing like hell. Osgood's off to a good start, hopefully this is a kick in the ass to everyone and we can come back and get a W.

And how did that work out for us? Can't say it was a bad move. I'm 100% behind putting Osgood in at this point. The pucks aren't hitting Dom right now and he's given up a couple of bad goals. Change the momentum, kick the whole team in the ass, and hopefully Osgood give us a chance. If he does, I don't have a problem with him playing.

Also, it was pointed out on another board that as of this moment the game IS listed on the Center Ice schedule, despite being a Versus game. So if the NJ/NYR game runs long, we still might have a way to watch. I just checked my Dish Network guide and confirmed that it is listed as being on there.

GB has won 5 of the last 7 in Detroit, you know... Not saying they'll win week 2, but they haven't had as much trouble in Detroit as of late as people seem to think.

And what would you say about Dom if the shot by Arnott was an inch off and it hit the goal post and the shot by Weber got blocked on the way through? Holy crap! We're up 3-0 and Dom's GAA is still like 1.66! And for the record, the post doesn't "Bail us out". The shot wasn't on net, it didn't go in. Was it close? Sure. But so are the shots that miss the post by an inch. So are chances where the goalie was out of position and the dman blocked it. So are the chances where a player has an empty net and fans or the puck hops over his stick. You just don't get a nice "PING" when those happen. It's amazing that we're actually counting posts against him now. You are correct that the Wings as a whole, including Hasek, need to be better. It was one game. The defense sucked balls, Hasek gave up a bad third goal. But guess what? The Penguins are the only team left in the postseason that hasn't lost. This team isn't perfect and people tend to forget (like on the Arnott goal) that the other guys are paid professionals as well. Sometimes it's not that the goalie or defense did anything wrong....the other guys can do things correctly. What am I supposed to say to a post with such cutting commentary as "Why did we carry Hasek's creaky carcass all season if the defense has to be absolutely perfect for him to make saves?" By and large, goalies don't stop shots that change direction at the last second. They don't consistently stop two-on-ones when the defenseman lets the pass get through and the shot gets one-timed. The third goal wasn't good--and Hasek's stand-up enough to admit it. The fourth one was a gorgeous shot that they guy liteally couldn't have placed any better. He had about an inch window to squeeze that puck through and he did it. Did he play an amazing game in Game 3? Absolutely not. I've never said it, I've never insinuated it. But the statement I was responding to was absolutely asinine. He didn't play well for a game. It happens. For the record, Kronwall, Stuart, Chelios, Lilja, and a few others all did things that hurt this team in Game 3. And it's pretty clear that it was a major exaggeration to say Dom needs the defense to be perfect to succeed (or to suggest that anyone blames the defense any time a goal goes in and the defense wasn't perfect). It is nice when they're remotely competent, however. And they weren't on the second goal. There's one team in the entire NHL Playoffs that hasn't lost yet. People just need to take a pill and calm the **** down. It's been the most annoying thing about this board all year--people flip out and resort to blaming the goalie whenever we lose a game. It's the message board version of Robert Lang. It's lazy and it sucks. You need to watch the clip of the 4th goal again. It wasn't a couple feet. Arnott was at the top of the faceoff circle and he put an absolute laser into the top corner. Again, these guys get paid too. Every goal doesn't mean someone f***ed up. I have no problem calling a spade a spade. The third goal sucked. Datsyuk might have screened him just a tick, but Dom was pissed at himself for missing it and he should've stopped it. Maybe if he threw his arms out to the side like Osgood does after basically every single goal, people would have cut him some slack. But blaming him for the first, second, or fourth goals is pretty absurd IMO. Just because the first and second goals occured in quick succession doesn't mean he had a chance on either one of them. We've had the tendency to give up goals rapid-fire the last couple of games. It just means that EVERYONE needs to do a better job of refocusing after a goal. And maybe don't do things like change lines 3 seconds after the puck is dropped and we don't get it in deep in the Nashville zone. Just a thought... No one has said that Hasek was amazing in Game 3. Just that he didn't suck as badly as the dips***s that want to blame the goalie after every loss think. We're still fine. We're winning this series in 5, 6 at most. Most of us wouldn't have predicted a sweep and Nashville was at home with their backs to the wall. It sucked how we lost that game, but it happens. I'm sure Calgary ain't thrilled tonight when they had a chance to bury San Jose and blew it. I guess Kipper isn't as money as everyone thought either. OMG PLAY CUJO! I'm sure Dallas isn't thrilled that they lost a game when they had a chance to bury the defending champs. But Turco sucks. Shouldn't have traded Smith. Nosir. Washington should probably be looking to Kolzig right now. New Jersey? Hope they've got a goalie in their system somewhere because Brodeur is pretty clearly past his prime. And Lunqvist gave up 4 and lost a game. He sucks too. Ditto the defense. Hard to not call it a brain fart when Stuart leaves the zone and Kronwall does nothing. Or when Chelios heads off the ice 3 seconds after the puck drops and we haven't gotten it in deep, then Lilja completely takes himself out of position. Everyone needs to play better. And they will. We're fine.

I made sure to sport my Hasek jersey when I was in Denver this past weekend. No one said anything. It made me sad because I miss that rivalry. I'd love to play those guys in the playoffs at some point this year.

Like it matters when they play at GB

I would. He didn't play well in that game. But the team didn't help him all that much, and they sure as hell didn't help him the game before when he WAS on his game and we still lost 2-1. Blame him for Game 6 all you want to, just be sure to point out that the game before he gave us a chance to take a stranglehold on the series and the offense puckered. Hardly mentioning it either... Who exactly talks about how he's so great and all? I didn't see the first two games but I heard he played really well. And no matter how you slice it, putting up the numbers he did from December through Mid-March and the numbers that he put up against playoff teams this year...it's not being below average a lot. He was below average against the Hawks a lot. I'll give you that. He also hasn't been a weak link. 1 of the 4 goals he allowed last night was bad. If that makes him a weak link, then so were Stuart, Kronwall, Chelios, Lilja (well...), and any forward that missed on a good scoring chance, Babcock for calling for a line change 3 seconds after the puck dropped, Rafalski, etc. It's waaaay too easy to blame the goalie when there were a lot of guys who played like s*** last night. There's no goalie in the league that is stopping that shot by Arnott. Hasek gave him almost nothing to shoot at and the guy made a perfect shot. By the same token, exactly what did you want him to do on the second goal? The defense essentially DID evaporate into thin air on that one, but you still demand he make that save? Give me a break. Stuart went Leeeeroy Jenkins and ran out of the zone and Kronwall did absolutely nothing to help. No one is making that save unless they guess absolutely perfectly. We won't go anywhere with average goaltending + bad defense + less than stellar offense, that much is true. That's what we had last night. It's still only one game. I'll ask all the people that are flipping out once again: Anyone want to make a bet on Nashville beating us 3 of 4 to win the series? Again, Turco and Fleury are the only two goalies in the playoffs who haven't lost a game. All the guys frequently mentioned in the "Why can't we have a guy like XXXX" conversations (Giguere, Kipper, Luongo, maybe Nabokov, Brodeur) haven't exactly set the world on fire (or in Luongo's case, even made the playoffs). We weren't going 16-0 and I knew this board was going to be just lovely when we finally dropped a game. Calm the hell down. We're still winning this series in 5...6 at absolute most. Did anyone really want to be off for a week or more anyway? Good way to kill momentum.

:lol: Besides, if we swept Nashville, we'd lose all our momentum waiting for the second round to start. It's better for the team this way, plus Mr. I gets an extra home date, which helps pay the bills. Big picture, people

Exactly. It ain't like their goalie is "bailing them out". I'm kind of curious who IS by this board's definition. For the record, there are two goalies in the league who haven't lost a playoff game yet: Turco and Fleury. Neither of whom have ever won a playoff series. The "top notch goalies" out there aren't faring so well. Giguere is getting lit up. Nabokov sure as hell didn't "Bail his team out" last night. Nor did Kipper. Luongo couldn't "bail his team out" when they needed to make the playoffs. Marty Brodeur has lost twice. I guess you could count Cujo, but Wings fans sure treated him well didn't they.... Plenty of blame to go around in this one--and Dom deserves some of it. But Lilja, Stuart, Kronwall, Chelios, and a slew of others could've "Bailed the team out" too. No one stops the first, second, or fourth goals. Sure it'd be nice if Dom went go, go, gadget arm and made the save, but it'd be nice if we potted a couple more goals too. The third goal sucked. It happens. It's one loss. We weren't going 16-0 no matter how much people might demand it. They still have to beat us 3 out of 4. For all the doom and gloomers, anyone want to make a bet about that happening? Didn't think so....Wings in 5.

So if 2 games makes a pattern that is destined to continue, we probably should have ended up sweeping them, no? We're going to be fine. You really think Nashville is going to take 3 out of 4 from this team? I sure don't. Wings in 5. They should've known better than to think about losing a game.

True. There are enough good posters around to make it worth it to put up with the haters. The ignore list is filling up pretty quick though.