Packer487

Oh for the love of Parise! The guy gives up 34 in 18 games in the postseason last year, but it's all his damn fault because we didn't come to play Game 6 against Anaheim until it was too late. Maybe if the team could've put more than 1 in the fricken net the game before we wouldn't have been in that situation. He gives up 4 tonight, one of which was bad, and he's sunk. Give me a ****ing break. Play some defense, make good line changes, don't leave to make a big hit for no reason, don't change lines 3 seconds after a faceoff when we're turning the puck over, make some effort to break up a 2 on 1....but no, it's all Dom. This board is amazing.

The same Kipper who got chased like 5 minutes into the game last night? The same Nabokov whose team blew a 3-0 lead last night and who didn't "Bail his team out" when they were less than a minute from having Detroit on the ropes last year? The same Luongo who isn't in the playoffs? I'm with you on the series prediction, but this board needs a prozac or something. Dom should've had the third one. I'm sure he'd be the first to admit it (since he unnecessarily blamed himself for a puck hitting a seam in the glass last game...he's a stand up guy like that). The fourth was just a ridiculous shot and Arnott picked the corner perfectly. Gotta just tip your hat to him on that one and we'll get em next game. Hopefully Lilja and Stuart play smarter. Playing defense and not attempting to sit on a lead would do as much to "Bail the team out" as Dom making one of those two stops.

Third goal was pretty bad, no clue what people want Hasek to do on that fourth one. He cut the angle as well as he could have and Arnott made a beautiful shot up under the bar. He had about an inch to squeeze that shot in and he did it. We're still winning this series in 5 games. It's fine.

Wings in four? :-)

What the hell was that noise in the arena during the stoppage there?

Hey that's not a GWG yet! Here's hoping you're right!

s***. I think that says it all. More later. Still a great season, but I'm really disappointed right now. F***ing Sauer had to pick this game to go back to being the college version of Dan Cloutier. Unreal.

I'm off to Denver. Go Blue!

Congrats to Dom and Ozzie (and the defense) on the Jennings Trophy! Hard to believe it's the first time the Wings' goalies have won that award since Ozzie and Vernon in 95-96. Thank God the regular season is finally over. The last month was just brutal. Now the fun stuff starts. Sadly, I'm going to miss our game Thursday as I'll be in Denver for the Frozen Four. Go get 'em Wings! 16 wins to go....

Awesome job getting Luongo for a promo about the playoffs. Ooooops.

I love how during the intermission Milbury was like "Hasek will start the playoffs because he'll cause problems in the locker room if he doesn't. He hasn't been great all year. I would expect to see Osgood at some point in the playoffs." Then after Dom makes a couple great saves, they go down to Milbury: "To me, starting Hasek in the playoffs is a lay-up. And if you're a Detroit fan you gotta be feeling pretty good about the way he's playing today." D-bag. If you were GM, you would've traded both of them for Dan Cloutier anyway.

There would have been absolutely no justification for starting Osgood against Edmonton. He was absolutely brutal for most of that season and Legace had lost twice in regulation in his last 24 heading into the playoffs, and had won 8 straight giving up 15 goals total. It didn't work out with Legace in net, but we can put that one on the list of Epic Failures like SJ 94 and LA 01.... 14 Cups in 14 seasons if we just would've kept Osgood and started him every year, I tell ya!

It must burn you that Osgood is having the best season of his career, Hasek's been so awful, and the coach still thinks higher of Dom. Fortunately, our coach doesn't base things off of GAA and Save %. Or meaningless games in October and November. So has Chris Terreri. Doesn't make him good. You want to know what my point was when I pointed out that Dom won as many playoff series last year alone as Osgood has won since the 99 season started? You're right. That pales in comparison to the point that Osgood has two Stanley Cups, since he piggy-backed on Vernon for the first one. Dom would be so much better of a goalie if Belfour and Chicago had won the Cup in 91-92 instead of losing to Pittsburgh. Darn. That would've helped my argument too. If only he would've known that losing a series that he had nothing to do with would still be haunting him 16 years later.... I guess it's a good thing the Wings lost to the Devils in 95. If Vernon had won that Cup for us, you'd pretty much have to start Osgood in this playoff run. True. But based on his play since December started, he is the best choice for this team. If Osgood was still playing the way he was in October-December, you'd have an argument. I might even be inclined to listen. But his play has leveled off. He's still been very good, he's still having a career year, but over the last few months, Dom has been better. And thankfully Babcock doesn't put as much stock in October games as you guys do. And strangely enough, no one was beating the "play the goalie who has been better for the WHOLE SEASON" drum when they were arguing for Osgood over Legace a few years back. I don't know how many times I have to say this: If Osgood is pressed into duty, I think he will do just fine. But by definition, they can't both be our "best" chance to win in my eyes. So I'm going with a guy that struggled out of the gate and screwed up his stats for the year, was arguably the best goalie in the league for 3 1/2 months, and has a sparkling record against the teams that actually matter come playoff time. Not to mention, he's actually had a taste of the second round this millennium.

Chances are, if you're playing a team headed for the post-season there are going to be a few really good scoring chances in there. If the goalie blanks the other team and got basically no support out of his offense, I have no problem with people wanting to give him credit. If it's 5-0 and the other team got 12 shots, then no, he probably didn't steal the game. If it's 1-0? He probably deserves a little more credit than you're giving him. Not that it really matters if these games "count" as stealing a win, but when you stop a breakaway in a 0-0 game in OT, to me, it counts. I know he made some huge stops in one of the Colorado games late when it was still 0-0, even though Colorado hadn't really attempted to play offense most of the time. It blows my mind how many people crack on him for his style of play. He's done it for more than a decade and it works for him. Would I suggest a young goalie watching it and trying to emulate it? No. But it works for him. Sure, maybe going to the snow angel results in a goal here and there, but you're assuming that no goals would be scored if he wasn't snow angelling. The guy didn't just accidentally become one of the very best to ever play the game. He knows what he's doing, even if it's horribly unconventional. That umm...had nothing to do with what I said. I don't care if you think he's the best hockey player to ever play the game. It doesn't change that this year you keep going with your asinine theory that if he starts the playoffs it will only be because of his name. Not because of anything he did on the ice. Just his name. I don't know why people keep saying Dom has been pulled twice in the first period. One of the newspapers even wrote that. It's not true. Basically if our goalies are getting pulled, the defense probably is playing like hell. I think you'd find that in pretty much every game that Hasek or Osgood has gotten yanked in. No help from the D. Even the Hasek "haters" could only really fault him on one last night, and that was after things really started going downhill. Yeah I get that. It's just when you say things like "It doesn't matter how bad Hasek played or how good Osgood played, Hasek was always going to be the starter because of his name." it completely ignores the fact that he's been really good for more than half the season and has sparkling numbers against the good teams in the league. You act like it's just been given to him all along and that it has nothing to do with what he's done on the ice. I don't have a problem saying that if you've got two goalies whose stats are relatively similar (at least of late), track record, history, etc. is the "tie breaker" because it's obviously the case. Osgood was going to have to be the clearly better goalie to beat Hasek out and it hasn't been the case. Not with the way Dom has played since December. But they didn't just give it to Dom. If he was playing like crap, they wouldn't start him. Babcock isn't stupid.

Might as well set up a macro or something to type that sentence for you. It's gonna happen a lot over the next few years....

Edit: Double post

Gotcha. So now, if we're counting, we've got essentially 3 1-0 shutouts of playoff teams (if Dom didn't have a shutout, we don't get the ENG in the 2-0 win, so I don't think it's unfair to count that one...Lord knows you probably differ), a stolen win over Anaheim, and one over Minnesota. And that's just based on what we remember. When you say Hasek is known for pulling some crap, are you talking about playing badly or getting hurt and shutting it down for the season? The only time there's ever been an issue with Dom in Detroit was when he got hurt during his comeback and he paid the team back all the salary he made during that time. Pretty safe to say it's not a concern. No. Not at all. Notice how I've never said a peep to the people who have been like "They're both great goalies, I just have a slight preference toward Osgood." The people I have a problem with--and need to shoot down--are the jack-asses who talk about Osgood like he's having the best season a goalie has ever had, forget about 1-0 overtime shutouts for Dom the second the defense hangs him out to dry a couple of times, say things like "Hasek hasn't stolen any games" even though it's completely untrue, and won't look beyond what it says at the end of his stat line. If you think Osgood is the better choice come playoff time, that's fine. Like I've said countless times, he'd probably do just fine. But don't sit there and try to tell me that Dom is only starting because of his name, like he hasn't played well this season at all. He's been very good/great for a much larger portion of this season than the time he struggled. The problem is that with the limited shots these guys face, it's a lot easier to screw your save percentage up than it is to fix it. ...except not in the second half of the season--with or without the time that our defense was banged up. I don't know how many times I have to tell you: I don't care how Dom played in October and November. It's completely irrelevant at this point. It'd be like saying that I have a concern that Datsyuk can't score goals anymore, because he got off to such a slow start. Since December started, Dom has been better. And when you add that in with his track record in the playoffs, and the fact that Osgood hasn't been nearly as good as he was in Oct/Nov/Dec, there's absolutely no reason not to start him. It doesn't matter how well Osgood plays as long as Hasek plays well. If Dom was playing like ass and Osgood was playing great, Osgood would be the starter. But Dom has been fine since December started (and much better than fine for most of that span), and Babcock is thankfully smart enough to look past the struggles in Oct. and Nov.

So wait, if he shut out Anaheim 1-0, it automatically counts as stealing a game (for the record it was Colorado twice and Nashville) no matter the shots? He made 15, 19, and 22 saves. Not huge numbers, but then again, Osgood has 18, 27, 20, and 12 saves in his shutouts, 3 were against non-playoff teams, and we didn't score less than 3 goals in any of them. But we love him so those count. Not to mention that saves isn't exactly the best stat to go off of either. If you only face 15 shots, but 4 are high-quality and you got no goal support out of your team, yeah, you stole the game. I also remember a win over Minnesota that he definitely "stole" but I can't give you any details on it. Probably that 3-2 OT one. They're similar, but not quite as good. Osgood is like 12-4-1 with a 2.03 and a .914 with one shutout. (Actually, those numbers include Vancouver too, whoops, but both goalies were really good against them, so it shouldn't skew things too much--helps Doms win total more (2 vs. 1 for Osgood), helps Osgood's save % more) And I'm not sure where I made it sound like Osgood blew against playoff teams. I never mentioned--or alluded to--him in that section. I posted Dom's stats against teams in the playoffs, said he brings it when it matters, and pointed out that even though he's got terrible numbers against St. Louis, Chicago, and Columbus, barring a miracle we won't see any of those teams in the post-season. It is actually possible to point out positives from one goalie without bashing the other, you know. The problem I have with your little quote is that you had to throw in the "as long as Hasek doesn't pull any s***" line. You could say the same thing about Osgood. They've each had their share of stinkers, but we write off Osgood's because he was playing with an AHL defense. Never mind that in Dom's, our defense played like a bunch of AHLers (yes, they were awful when he got lit against St. Louis and Chicago in November as well as when he got yanked against Columbus). I'm crazy because I defend a goalie that is 6-1 in playoff series as a Red Wing, but acknowledge the other guy would probably do just fine too? Hasek's just better. He always has been and he always will be. He's been very good since December started, with a couple of hiccups that you'll see throughout the year from any goalie. And I think he gives us the better chance to win the Cup. Osgood is 10-8-3 with a 2.46/.896 in the last half of the season. Dom is 13-4-1 with a 1.96/.912. Even taking out the entire month of February, Dom has the edge: Osgood: 8-2-2, 2.18, .908 Hasek: 11-3-0, 2.03, .909 So it ain't just that Dom was hurt when the AHLers were on D and Osgood suffered. Add in that Dom tends to play more of the playoff caliber teams and it's easy to see why I want him in net, no matter what his stats look like for the OMG whole year.

Yup, he sure does have a massive track record of success (2 times out of the first round in almost a decade). There's no reason to think that we wouldn't have 14 Cups if we had just kept Ozzie his whole career and played him every playoff run. And for the record, he might have gotten his shot against Edmonton if he hadn't gotten hurt. Can't blame Babs on that one. And despite the revisionist history around here, there would have been no justification for playing him at the start of that series. Again, I'm not even trying to rip on the guy. He's been really good this year, he deserved to be in the All-Star game and I think he'd do fine in the playoffs. But some of you talk about him like he's completely infallible and that Hasek blows. It's absolutely absurd. Dom won as many playoff rounds last year as Osgood has since he held the Cup. Dom's been fantastic against playoff teams this year, he's been really good overall since December started, and he's arguably the best goalie in the history of hockey. There's no reason NOT to play him. If the playoffs started in late November, you would've had a case. Now? There's no reason not to go with Hasek. Babs is going to play the guy that gives us the best chance to win. He's not an idiot, despite your comment above that he doesn't want to right the ship. Because, it was totally Dom that was the problem last year. Whatever.

Bull ****ing crap Hasek hasn't stolen games this year. Do you realize he has 2 1-0 shutout wins over playoff teams this year? Another shutout win over a playoff team would've been 1-0 except we scored an ENG with 12 seconds left, so that would make three. He had to be perfect in all of those games. And he was. But those don't count. If it's Osgood we all have a group hug and he gets a cookie. Dom? Meh, he didn't make 40 stops so it doesn't count. Dom just makes saves. Ozzie steals games. He's 17-4 against playoff teams this year with 5 shutouts and something like a 1.70 gaa/.918 save percentage. He hasn't done as well against the Chicagos and St. Louises of the world, but the great thing about the playoffs is that we won't see teams like that (barring a miracle from Chicago). But he brings it when it matters. It's awful funny that you say Osgood has been at least top 10 in save percentage the entire year, when he currently ranks #16 (and only three of the guys ahead of him have played less games). Yes it's better than Dom's still, but Dom has raised his save percentage 30 points since the first month and a half of the season, and that's not all that easy to do when you face as few shots as our goalies do. The gap in their save percentages used to be like 60 or 70 points. Now it's 15. But Ozzie just steals games. Dom went 3 1/2 damn months without giving up more than three goals in a game and had a 1.6ish goals against in that span. And he's played almost 60% of his minutes against playoff teams to something like 40% for Osgood. Osgood was clearly better in October and November. They both posted sparkling numbers in December. Dom was clearly better in January and February. Osgood's numbers were slightly better in March, but Dom did better at winning games. Some of you Osgood fanboys are absolutely bat-**** crazy. He's having a really solid year, but for the love of Parise, he hasn't done anything in the playoffs in almost a decade. I think he'd do fine if he was pressed into duty, but the way some people around here talk about Hasek, it really makes me wonder if they do anything but look at the stat box on Yahoo for the season.

Still not concerned even if Dom doesn't play well tonight. He brings it against playoff teams, and the good thing about the playoffs is that's all you see. He's 17-4 against playoff teams with 5 shutouts and a 1.79/.918. He just doesn't fare that well against Chicago, CBJ and St. Louis for some reason. But when the chips are down, he's going to be fine. Again, if we lose in the playoffs, I'm almost positive it ain't going to be our goalies (either or both) that let us down.

Works hard, good skater, hits a lot, good defensive forward, takes a lot of dumbass penalties.

Sweet! We haven't had anyone to take consistently dumb penalties since Lapointe left! He'll be a pretty good player if he can tone it down a little. Can't have him taking a penalty every single game like he did at MSU (41 minors in 42 games). I appreciate his physicality and his hustle, but he has to stop being a dumbass. He took a lot of BAD penalties at MSU. Can't do that in the Show.

Babs changed his mind. Dom is playing both of the remaining games.

Nah, I'm almost positive it's whoever gives up the GWG. So if the Wings score again, Ozzie gets the L and if we don't, it'll be Dom.