Packer487

He got gouged in the fricken eye...no wonder. It was a much closer fight than you saw from your vantage point. He most definitely did not get effed up. Unless you're counting Fronger's finger nails.

That was a fun game, just caught it on the DVR. Pretty much everyone played well. I'd go as far as to say that is the best I've ever seen Kopecky play. He's seemed like just a body for the most part, but he was awesome tonight. Dom was stellar, but that's been par for the course for the last two months. I give Cleary big-time props for going with Pinhead, and he handled himself well, despite the immediate finger in the eye. The Ducks are a bunch of punk-ass chumps. There's about 3 guys on that team that I don't want to see get cross-checked in the face, and those extra 3 can go to Pronger instead. Very happy with the effort out of everyone tonight. And how bout that stat that Lidstrom has only gotten called for roughing one time in his career. That's absolutely incredible. Is it possible for a 5 (soon to be six) time Norris winner to be underrated? Because I think he still is somehow.

Fixed that for ya!

Yeah, you know Bill Simmons was just waiting to rip him in a column. I love reading that guy, but he really lets his New England bias shine through (especially when he talks about the Pistons or Favre---don't know what he has against him...must be that he knocked off the Pats in SB XXXI). The funny thing is, that pass in OT that got picked off wasn't Favre being a gunslinger or swashbuckler, or whatever they like to call him. It wasn't a pass he chucked up for grabs when he was under pressure. Driver was open, he just made a bad throw. I imagine it slipped out of his hand. This first pick? That was the gunslinger--but the guy fumbled it right back luckily. Whatever, he had a helluva year and I fully expect him back next year to take another run at this thing. There were a lot of issues in that game that hurt us more than Favre's performance. Harris couldn't cover Burress for crap. We couldn't open any running lanes for Grant. Jennings was completely invisible. They didn't get a whole lot of pressure on Manning. Hawk missed some huge tackles. Bush tried to pick up a fumble and run with it instead of just falling on the damn thing. The Giants seemed to get to the 35 on every kickoff. They took dumbass penalties on third downs (though I will say the illegal contact call that wiped out Harris's pick was GARBAGE-he hit him right at the 5 yard marker and any other contact was initiated by the WR). Brandon Jackson stayed too close to his blockers on the screen pass allowing Pierce (Pearce?) to make the play of the game. If he's another yard to his left, he has a TD and we probably win. McCarthy didn't call a great game (should've helped Harris out a little, too many screens when only one had the potential to work, didn't find any ways to adjust to what NY was doing). That was about Green Bay's C- game. But I give the Giants a ton of credit. They brought it 3 times on the road and won in two of the toughest places to play in the NFL. Manning played a great game, Burress was huge for them, their corners stepped up despite being injured (notice that LDT?), and they played a really disciplined game on defense apart from that Madison personal foul. And unlike the Packers, they played their best (or close to it) in the biggest game of the year. I'm more disappointed than I am upset, because I really think the Packers win that game 8 out of 10 and that they could've given NE a game. But they don't play the games on paper, so best of luck to the Giants. Go get a win and bring it back to the NFC. I don't expect it to happen, but I also didn't give the Giants a chance in hell of beating GB or Dallas.

It was a rough end to the season, no doubt, and I'm beyond disappointed, but it's hard to be upset about a 13-3 season that led to an appearance in the NFC Championship game. When I think back to what the expectations were before the year, and how everyone seemed to think this was a team without much talent, with a shell-of-his-former-self QB, destined to fight it out for last place in the NFC North, it's hard to say that this season wasn't a success. It doesn't make the loss any easier, particularly since we were favored by a touchdown at home against a team we smoked earlier in the year, but it's still farther than most anyone thought this team would go. I've kind of likened it to the Tigers from a couple years back. Should they have won the World Series? Probably. Could any Tigers fan be unhappy with the way that year went? No. No one expected them to make it that far, then they were on the cusp and couldn't pull it off. But that wasn't supposed to be "their year". Just like how the Packers were supposed to be a year or two away from seriously contender. It's a missed opportunity though, no doubt. And the problem with missed opportunities even when it's not supposed to be "your year" is that you never know if the season that IS supposed to be "your year" will go as planned. But, it's pretty clear that the rebuilding is over and this team is back in the conversation. I have no doubts that Favre will return next year (then again, I also had no doubt that they would lose this weekend--and I was 99% sure he was retiring after last year), and one of the youngest teams in football will have a deep playoff run under their belt. Ted Thompson has $25 million in cap space to work with ($35 million if Favre retires). They have almost no free agents of their own to worry about. And I fully expect that next year they'll be right back in the picture. TT has done a phenomenal job rebuilding this team. They're a young group, and it's entirely possible that this team just wasn't ready to win yet. This season was a huge step in the right direction, and with a couple of FA signings supplementing the improvement that the youngsters will hopefully show, the improvement that the young coaching staff will hopefully show, another draft, and the experience that this season provided, I'm looking forward to seeing what the future has in store for this team. And to "mess back" with Timothy, enjoy Year 8 of the rebuilding process next year

Bad goal, but a nice fake too. Ohhh Wings score! I'm not used to Nik Kronwall actually being good. This past couple of months has been a nice change.

I really don't know that you're getting 2 first round picks for Roy Williams--and if you can, I'd jump on it in a heartbeat. WRs really aren't that hard to find. Green Bay's "Big Five" are a 7th round pick, a 2nd round pick, a 3rd round pick, a FA signing, and an undrafted free agent. Maybe you aren't going to dig up someone quite as good, but there are plenty of effective wideouts out there. Plus that would let Millen use at least one of the 3 first-rounders on another WR, which is always good for some laughs.

You should read the whole thread. It's an absolute trip. If there were a Hall of Fame for LGW threads, this one would be a first-ballot entry. Welcome!

You going to the game NFM? I've been pulling up ebay like every hour hoping to get lucky and find a reasonably priced set of tickets. It looks like prices have come down substantially from the start of the week. Still around $400, but much better than $600-700. If I could get really lucky and find one for 3 bills, I'd probably pull the trigger, even if I don't really have the money right now. I'm bouncing off the walls waiting for Sunday to get here. I don't know how I'm going to manage to wait two weeks if we should win this game... It'd be really interesting to see what would happen if the Packers do pull this off. A big part of me just doesn't see Favre walking away with as well as he's playing and as good as this team is.

It's kind of weird that when you guys had scoring, you couldn't find a goalie. Now it's completely the opposite problem. I hope Morrison comes back strong for you guys. He's one of my all-time favorite Wolverines.

What the hell got into Cleary tonight? 2 goals, at least one post, and 2 or 3 other chances where Luongo just flat out robbed him. He could've had four or five tonight really easily. Great effort by the guy who's probably my 3rd favorite on the team behind Hasek and Homer. These goalie interference calls against Holmstrom are getting dumber and dumber. It's amazing that they haven't seen on tape that he very rarely actually initiates contact with the goalie. At least it didn't cost us a goal tonight. Nice effort out of Hasek. He made a few big stops out of the gate, then the defense took over and shut em down for a good long while (it's really not fair how good our team defense is sometimes), made some stops in the third, and he made 3 nice saves in the shootout. It wasn't the best effort of the season by any means, but they definitely showed signs of snapping out of the problems of the last few games. And Roberto Luongo is fricken insane. That guy is unbelievable. I still can't believe the Canucks got him for as little as they gave up. What an awful trade by Florida. I can't believe they couldn't get a better package than that.

What makes me think he could? He did it 5 years ago and last year darn near backstopped this team to the Finals, where they would've smoked Ottawa (IMO). The hockey gods weren't smiling on us last year...but we went a long way with Dom in net. Washed up: Has averaged giving up less than 1.5 goals a game over the last two months and has stopped like 93% of the shots he's faced. He's arguably been the best goalie in the league over that span. Brittle: Meh. I don't want to jinx anything but he hasn't missed all that much time since he's come back to Detroit. You can criticize his style all you want to. It's only led to a Cup, 6 Vezinas and 2 Harts. I just want to know if he's keeping the puck out of the net. And he is. Whatever. If Dom's lost some of his fire and he's still this good, it's really damn impressive. This has to be a schtick....right?

Good thing we've got 12 straight division games heading into the post-season then!

I have absolutely no idea what you're basing that on. I suppose I can understand having faith in Ozzie, but why are you so sure Dom can't take this team to the Cup? If they were going to come out and name Osgood the starter, it would've been a LONG time ago--like when Dom wasn't playing lights out hockey. And Ozzie's played well since then, so I'm not sure how you can say it's messed with his head just recently.... Again, Babcock isn't stupid. He's going to pick the guy that gives us the best chance to win the Cup. It's his butt on the line if we start tanking in the playoffs.

Weird, this article does seem to imply that Babs wanted to put Hasek in after the second goal. But then Osgood said he was surprised by how quick Dom got ready. Who knows.... Babcock did say that he may start riding Hasek after Thursday's game against Vancouver. He said he hasn't decided if the rotation will continue. Edit: A link would probably be helpful. http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/20...on_may_end.html

He'll be fine. He was playing at an incredible level that very few goaltenders could sustain long-term. He was due to have a couple of bad outings, it's just the way these things go. You can't be at your best every single night for an 82 game season. It just doesn't happen. He's still having an outstanding year, and even if he levels off somewhat, he'll still be having a career season. Until he proves otherwise, I have no problem writing it off to a couple of bad starts in an otherwise excellent season. The Wings as a whole always seem to go into a little bit of a funk this time of year or slightly later. These are the dog days of the season. But hopefully these past two starts for The Oz give people a little bit more perspective about the way things were going earlier in the season. Like how sometimes a loss, even with a very low shot total, isn't necessarily the goalie's fault...but then, this is Detroit.

I live in Wisconsin now. I think the Packers do have a shot at NE. The Pats defense really isn't incredible, it's just that they can outscore everyone and make them one-dimensional because teams can't really run the ball once they get down by 17 points. The Packers have averaged 32 points a game since Grant took over at RB. They can score with the Pats, and they've got the CBs to match up with those receivers. It'd be a MUCH better game than people would think and it wouldn't shock me if GB beat them. Just gotta get past the G-Men first. I made the comment during the snow bowl that that's how football should be played and I'd love to see the Super Bowl at Lambeau. I do think you'll see a cold weather city get the SB at some point (probably the new stadium in New York) but GB doesn't have the hotel space to get them to put it there, even though it's the one place that every football fan should go once in their life.

I'm here.

Well we got a joke about his age and a joke about how he spells his name--if you can call them jokes. If he had thrown in something about Vicodin, we would've had the trifecta!

Bump for the NFC Championship Game appearance. We're 4 quarters away from the Super Bowl. I can't ****ing believe it. This has been a dream season. It's clear that Ted Thompson has done a phenomenal job of rebuilding this team in just a couple of years. They went from 4-12 with an aging core group and no real veterans in their prime, to being a young, talented team that tied the franchise win record and is on the cusp of getting to play for the NFL Championship. He's added a star running back, for the low, low price of a sixth-round pick, along with the best playmaking WR in the NFL not named Moss or Owens. And those guys are just the tip of the iceberg. And who is behind it? The greatest, and most entertaining, player to ever play the game. Like I said before in this thread, you can make arguments for other players, but I can make a darn good one for Favre as well. And no one has ever been this fun to watch. Honestly, if you told me right now that Green Bay could win the Super Bowl and Favre would retire, OR you'd make no guarantees on the outcome of theses seasons, but Favre would play another 3 years at the extremely high level he's currently playing at, I'm not sure which I'd pick. There'd be nothing like sending him out on top (and I'm actually not convinced he'd hang it up if they'd win), but I love watching this man play football so much, it'd be hard to give that up, even with the enjoyment of another championship. I'd probably take the win, but it would be a LOT tougher choice than it should be.... Coach Holmgren used to tell his team "The journey is the reward" and watching this season, it's pretty evident what he meant. I can't say I've ever enjoyed a sports season this much, week in and week out. It reached a new level watching that snow bowl this past weekend (if there's anything more fun than a football game in a blizzard, it's a football game in a blizzard where you get to kick Mike Holmgren's ass and possibly send him in to retirement wishing that he had never left Green Bay) and now we have a shot to play for the right to go to the Super Bowl. Even though this team is on the upswing, especially with the news that Favre will more than likely come back next year, you have to make the most of these opportunities when you get them. You never know if injuries or other factors will derail a run in the future. I can't wait for Sunday. This is going to be a long week. And an even longer two weeks, should we beat the Giants. But the best thing that this run to the playoffs (and maybe the SB) has provided is another opportunity, or two, or three to watch Brett Favre play football. It sounds sappy as hell, but that's something I cherish, because it won't be the same when he's gone. And the more chances I get, the luckier I feel to be somewhat a part of this. I love this team so much.

I can't friggin' believe the NFC Championship is coming to Lambeau Field. I give the Giants all the credit in the world for pulling off that upset even with all their injuries in the secondary. That was an impressive performance, no doubt. These are two pretty different football teams than met in Week 2. The Packers didn't have Ryan Grant then...well, they did, but I think he caught just a single screen pass in that game. Regardless, the running game wasn't anywhere close to where it is now. And the offensive line didn't have a performance in them like they did against Seattle. They hadn't come up with the Big Five package yet, because Koren Robinson was still suspended. Edit, and Greg "14 TDs in 14 games" Jennings was hurt for that game. Can't believe I forgot that one. He's kind of good. On the Giants side, I don't believe they had Brandon Jacobs in that game and Eli Manning hurt his shoulder the week before. Their defense really didn't get things going until the next week (though how much of that was them not getting going until the next week and how much was what GB was doing? Hard to say). The reasons I like the Packers: -First and foremost, it's at home. -The Giants secondary is dinged up. I don't know the status of Sam Madison (DNP today) or Aaron Ross (left the game with his arm in a sling) for next week, but if they don't have those guys, it's going to be very tough to match up against the Big Five + Donald Lee. -The track in Green Bay isn't going to be nearly as fast as the turf in Dallas. That'll slow down those speed rushers. If you don't believe me, check out Patrick Kearney's stat line this week against a gimpy Mark Tauscher. 0 tackles, 0 sacks. If they can't get to Favre--and it's tough as it is with how quick he gets the ball out--it's going to be tough for them to advance. -Brett Favre vs. Eli Manning? I know who I'm taking. I'm not looking past this team by any means. It was a 35-13 game in September, but it was 14-13 entering the fourth quarter and the teams have changed a lot since then. I have to respect any team that beats Dallas on the road and plays NE as tough as they did. That said, I really like Green Bay's chances to represent the NFC in the Super Bowl. That city is going to be absolutely electric. It's going to be a long wait until Sunday...

If I had been the best employee doing what I do in the corporate world for 10 years +, and had 3 bad days at the start of the year, two at least partially because some joker spilled coffee on my computer, I could see looking past it, especially since my performance has regained it's previous level of awesomeness. Of course, I would point out that in the last decade you hadn't closed a deal as big as the one that I closed last year (and have on several occasions in that time span), or really even come close. And I'd point out that apart from the 2 days where the jerk-off spilled coffee on my computer (and one other time where my mind was just elsewhere...just had a bad breakup. My fault for not working past it.) our performances had been dead on balls even the rest of the year, and I had actually been better for the second half of the time we're talking about here. I'd get the promotion. But seriously, if your argument is that Osgood should get the job because he's been great for the whole year, and that Dom has only been great for half the year...and I can show that apart from 3 fluky bad games, Dom's numbers are really damn comparable to Osgood's for the whole year (meaning, worthy of the label "awesome"), you don't think that's a legitimate point? And you don't think that that disproves your idea that he sucked for a lot more than 3 games? And even when you take out Ozzie's three worst games and we have a "fair comparison", the gap between him and Dom still shrinks dramatically, which pretty much proves my point (again) that we've got 3 games skewing the results It's especially interesting since some people like you think he sucked for "a few months" and that Osgood has been amazing throughout (the latter I would agree with). If their numbers are that close, then either you've got a strange definition of "suck", your standards are really low for Ozzie (not that case since he has been amazing this year) or you're giving Dom a lot more credit than either you or I have realized. But whatever, it's clear we're not going to change each other's minds. I'm fine revisiting this in a few weeks when we're starting to come down the home stretch of the season. Then we don't have to deal with the hypothetical "If both goalies keep up this pace for the rest of the year" since it's pretty likely that one or both of them will not--since they've both been playing at an incredible level. And btw, the joke's on you. We haven't played a Wednesday game in the Pacific Time Zone this year

With our luck we'd get the worst of each of them: A goalie that gives up goals from center ice who beats the crap out of reporters and fellow inline hockey players.

Or you both could completely and utterly miss the point (again) that apart from 3 games this season, which he's been ripped for time and time again, the goalies have been pretty damn even. Hasek: 1.71 goals against, .919 save percentage Osgood: 1.82 goals against, .928 save percentage Again, the point is that even though Osgood has been excellent for the entire season, which is the center piece of your whole argument, Hasek has put up very similar numbers for a very high percentage of his starts, even if his overall numbers don't look nearly as good. I'd also point out that Dom's nights against Chicago and St. Louis were quite similar to the night Osgood experienced last night which no one, myself included, blamed him for. It wasn't so when the other goalie was in.... I'm curious why would I remove numbers from Osgood's stats when the whole premise of your argument that Osgood should start is that he's been amazing for the season as a whole, whereas Hasek apparently sucked for half the games we've played thusfar (or more)? But to be "fair", here ya go: Osgood (with his 3 worst games in save percentage removed--if you'd prefer, you could take out his 3 worst in GAA and his GAA would go slightly down, as would his save percentage): 1.55 goals against average, .937 save percentage Not skewed as badly, but that's really not the point anyway. But even when you take into account the worst each goalie has had to offer, the actual spread between them (.29 in GAA and .026 in save percentage) shrinks to .16 in goals against and .018 in save percentage...which illustrates my point perfectly. You take out their respective three worst starts and the margin in goals against is almost halved, and a third is whacked off the save percentage gap. I even spelled this out for you in my original post: I'm not asking you to forget those games happened. All I'm trying to show is that it wasn't an "awful few months" or even so much an "awful month and a half". It's basically three games we're talking about here which skewed his stats badly. Dom's been well under 2 goals a night for the rest of the time, including the rest of his early struggles and his numbers apart from those nights aren't that dissimilar from Ozzie's. It's just interesting to see considering the way one of them has been fellated the entire season and the other one skewered for a big portion. But it's clear neither of you have a desire to open your minds to it, which is fine. Like I said, there's a lot of time left in the season, and this issue will probably get decided for us at some point, either through injury or the play of one of the goalies slipping.

I have to watch on Fox Sports North since I live in Wisconsin. The Fox Sports Detroit feed is blacked out. And my FSN feed is absolutely horrible. I'm on Dish Network...all the other stations are fine. Seems like I always have problems with Fox Sports North and nothing else....