Packer487

It's stupid to get into an argument that can't be won. If I say "No, I think Dom is better at moving side to side", what then? It's easy to argue in favor of something that can't be disproved. Osgood is clearly better statistically thusfar, but Dom has matched him game for game over the last month and a half. And yet somehow, some people on here just want to write off Dom's successes to him stopping the pucks he's supposed to stop, while Ozzie is not only stopping every shot on his own, he's handing out pizzas in the crowd while the puck is down in the other end, and saving puppies from getting run over on Jefferson while he's at it. What do Hasek's struggles in October and Osgood's hot start mean when the Playoffs roll around? If Hasek keeps playing like he's been playing, they aren't going to sit him in the playoffs because he didn't play well against Anaheim in October. 17 games into the season, Datsyuk had 2 goals. Does that mean anything now? No! If you look at playoff performance, it's really not even close who has had more success. Especially in the recent past. It doesn't do anything for me? Go back and look at the adjectives I've used to describe Osgood in this thread alone. I said even said he belongs in the All-Star game. Hasek hasn't been as good as Osgood this season. But over the last month and a half, he has been. And if I'm making the call about who starts in the playoffs (especially a few months from now) I don't much care what happened in October.

I'd be inclined to argue that that happens a lot more on Osgood's side around these parts. Against Dallas, people wanted to give him the Hart, Pearson, Vezina, Hobey Baker, and Heisman for diving to stop a shot that was going 3 feet wide of the net. Hasek was legitimately great in that game against Dallas the other night. It blows my mind that people don't give him the credit he deserves. Pretty amazing that Dom keeps anything out of the net, eh? If Osgood gets the shaft in the playoffs it's going to be because Dom is playing well enough to earn the first crack at it. You can't deny it's been a LONG time since Osgood has had success in the playoffs (it's been what? 7 or 8 years since he won a series maybe?). If it's even close you gotta go with Hasek. Babcock isn't stupid. If Dom kept fighting the puck like he was at the start of the year, and Osgood kept playing like an All-Star, Osgood would've gotten the nod. But Dom has been great lately, even if no one wants to admit it. If it keeps up, and Dom's coming into the playoffs playing at the level he's at right now, it'd be stupid not to go with him first. If he gets back to struggling, and Osgood keeps playing the way he's playing, then go with Ozzie. I've got no problem saying that. As of late, the stats haven't backed that up. They have shown that both our goalies are awesome and the guy wearing #39 probably deserves a little more respect. All he's doing is stopping the puck. He hasn't stolen any games Seriously though, I'd argue that Dom's early season struggles are the outlier, not his last 10 games. Based on his career (and even his play last year), it seems pretty safe to say that's the case.

People are way too quick to just write off Hasek's wins as just stopping the pucks he's supposed to stop. He's been lights out for a good month plus now--and I think it'd be fair to say he "stole" that game against Dallas, even if the media didn't show him any love with a star. He made at least 5 blockbuster saves in that game....on pucks that were actually going to be on net, too. Is it really fair to say Osgood's at a level Dom won't get to this year when their stats over the past 10 are remarkably similar? Dom probably dug himself too deep a hole stat wise to get up the chart in save percentage (and the Wings don't allow enough shots), but you'd be hard pressed to find two goalies in the league playing better than our duo right now....

They just have to build a new arena. I appreciate that the sight-lines at the Joe are great and that there have been a ton of memories made over the years, but that place is an absolute dive. It's ugly, the concourse is cramped, the restrooms are poorly designed, the press box was a complete afterthought, the luxury suites might as well be in Cobo they're so far away.... Take the basic plan of the XCel Center (which is an absolutely GORGEOUS facility), change a few things to make it our own, and let's rock and roll. The best team in the NHL for almost a decade and a half shouldn't be playing in an arena like that.... It's an interesting idea that they'd want the new arena closer to Motor City...hadn't thought of that. But if this new arena gets the kabosh because of some bureaucratic crap, I'm going to be upset (and I'm sure it could happen).

I don't want to start a war, so I'm not going to bring up all the reasons to start Hasek, but I think it's pretty clear that Dom is going to get his chance barring a complete collapse/injury. Osgood has been stellar. He deserves to be on the All-Star team, and I think he's got a pretty good shot. But the fact that he's been as good as he has and Babcock was never willing to anoint him the starter--and only has them as co-goalies at this point--it seems like he knows (or at least suspects) who the guy is come playoff time. I think these guys are actually helping each other. Osgood's stellar play likely made Dom realize he needed to get with it in a hurry, and Osgood knows that he's gotta play lights out hockey if he wants to keep seeing regular playing time and have a shot at minutes in the post-season. And they've both responded in a big way to the challenge. Also, they both get days off--and since neither of them is the model of perfect health, it's hard to see how that's a bad thing. We really can't go wrong either way. Osgood's got him in stats right now, but since that 3 game losing streak almost 2 months ago, Dom is 8-1-1 (and can hardly be blamed for that regulation loss where he gave up 1 goal and got 0 goals of support offensively) with a 1.47 GAA and a .930 save percentage with 2 shutouts. Over Osgood's last ten, he's 9-1-0 with a 1.70 GAA and a .934 save percentage with 1 shutout. It's hard to point at Osgood's season stats at this point and say "He should be the starter" when Dom has been playing every bit as well as of late. If I'm making the decision today about who is starting the playoffs, I don't care that Dom's numbers are worse because he looked like butt a couple times early on in the year. But the real thing that those numbers show: Both of our goalies are freaking ridiculous.

Arrgh! More stuff that used to be on Center Ice, but isn't now. Sweet.

The 2nd round in the AFC playoffs should be epic: New England vs. Jacksonville and San Diego vs. Indy? That's good stuff.

Weird, I could swear that I responded to this post already, but it's not there. Anyway, about Seattle...I kind of view them as "Green Bay lite". Everything they do, Green Bay is just a little bit better at it. Hass is good, Favre is better. Their receivers are pretty good, the Big Five are better. Alexander hasn't been that great this year, and Ryan Grant is probably the better back at this point. Green Bay's defense is better. That's not to say I don't think Seattle could come in and beat Green Bay. It could definitely happen. But I wouldn't call them a team that particularly scares me--though they are good--and I'd be more worried about them than any team in the NFC playoffs not named Dallas (so NYG, TB, Washington/OMG Minnesota). They're 3-4 on the road this year and the wins were against SF (by 20), St. Louis (by 5), and Philly without McNabb (by 4). Hasselbeck has thrown 18 TDs and 7 picks at home but only 9/5 on the road and his rating is 13 points lower. If it was in Seattle, I'd be really worried about this game (if it happens) but the fact that it would be in Green Bay would have me feeling a lot more confident.

Didn't see it coming, but when you essentially have 4 turnovers on punts (2 blocked, 1 dropped that he just covered, and one 9 yard kick) you're not going to win any football games. And in wind like that, once you force a team to throw the ball, you've won the game. Goofy game, but chances are they aren't going to see wind like that at Lambeau in the playoffs. Playing in snow is a lot different than playing in 40 mph wind. It sucks that we'll likely have to go back down to Dallas (if both teams win their opener), but with how important GB's passing game is to what they do, maybe it's for the best that they'll be in nicer weather. I still think we're better than the Cowboys.

Yeah that sucked. Like I said in the Packers thread, when you essentially have 4 turnovers on punts (2 blocked, one dropped, one 9 yard kick), you're not winning a football game. Luckily we probably won't see wind like that in Lambeau. Cold and snow aren't bad. 40 mph wind? You can't even really run your offense. It's cool.

I'm getting more and more convinced the Cowboys will not be representing the NFC. They've been awful since that win over Green Bay and now TO has a high ankle sprain--anyone who watched Mike Hart this year knows how tough those can be. If they come out with that kind of effort next week against Washington, they'll lose, 100%. That was a 7 point win over a bad Carolina team, who is on their 4th string QB. And they still needed two VERY generous calls (the non-PI which would've given Carolina the ball at midfield and instead forced them to punt and Dallas got it as the Carolina 40, as well as the overtuned bomb that Steve Smith caught...he was going to the ground himself? Really? Those two DBs had nothing to do with it?) to seal the deal. That's 3 straight weeks they've been playing bad football. They're pretty lucky to be 2-1 in those games. Washington is all around better than Carolina, and the Redskins would be in a "win and they're in" scenario if they beat Minnesota tomorrow. If the Packers take care of business against Chicago and Detroit, I can still easily seem them ending up with homefield.

Great game all around. Hasek owns the Wild like Ozzie has owned the Predators. This team has a way of making good teams look really really bad.

He did kind of grab the defender as he tried to get around him. It's a really weak penalty considering some of the crap that they let go throughout the course of a game. If that's the way they want to call things, that's fine, but then Holmstrom GD better well not get cross-checked in front of the net, like he is every time he's in the lineup. Because those are all penalties. They're just not consistent, and it's really annoying. If you call stuff like that, there's going to be 20 power plays a game.

I just think it's funny that the ref isn't in play on a shot that goes into the net, but they can hold the puck in and play continues. I guess I'm not sure how it's any different. If it should've been a clear, but the linesman holds it in and the other team scores because of it, I guess I don't see a difference. I guess my thought is the refs should always be in play. They probably just don't want players shooting it at the refs trying to bank the shot in....I dunno why the guy was standing in the friggin crease in the first place though. Definitely a couple of bad breaks thanks to the zebras. We look good though, and Dom is playing well. Those red jerseys for the Wild are beautiful. Head and shoulders over the white and green ones. Then again, I love almost any jersey that has a tie on the neck. Except the Avs old thirds

That's correct. Well I guess Dallas better win these next two games, since their franchise has never won in Green Bay. Wouldn't shock me if Dallas has been a clear favorite in all 9 of those losses. Most of them were during Dallas's run with Aikman, Irvin and Smith. Can't wait for the playoffs. This is gonna be awesome!

You could argue that. And if the Packers had gotten their asses kicked twice by the Vikings, I'd be inclined to say that maybe Minnesota shouldn't be scared of Green Bay. Or it's because the Packers got back to doing what's gotten them to a 12-2 record. Throwing the short passes and letting their receivers run after the catch, rather than just chucking it deep and hoping it worked.

To try and write off those games against Carolina, Minnesota, and Montreal? Yes. All three of those teams can score. They didn't have a ton of shots, but there were quite a few good scoring chances. This is what I mean when I say people worry about stats too damn much. If we let em get 30 shots by flipping shots from the blueline, his numbers would look better, but it doesn't mean he played any better. We hold teams' shot totals down, but there are a lot of times where the chances we give up are top notch. Fair. As long as you use the same standard for both goalies, that's fine. There's quite a few people who don't get the point though. He was fine, but the team playing badly can make you look silly a lot of times. People on this board--not you in particular--are a lot more forgiving of Osgood when the team hangs him out to dry (like last night...he probably couldn't have stopped any of those) whereas if it was Dom, all we'd hear about is how he sucks and how Ozzie would've found a way to stop that because he's OMG so good. Don't try and say it's not true. We've seen it several times this year. And that's where I say you're full of crap. I don't care about the shot totals. I watched all three of those games and he made some really nice stops. It wasn't a game where you'd be like "OMG give him the Vezina" but it's just as silly to completely write him off as if he had nothing to do. 5-0-1, 1.75, .913 is average/decent? That would be fair. I'm sorry, but if you give a team enough short-handed breakaways, odd man rushes, and uncontested shots from the slot, they're going to score goals. Even Vezina-Hasek would've been giving up goals in those games. There have been nights where the Team D in front of Osgood hasn't been great, but he hasn't had to face anything like those games against St. Louis and Chicago where the team was asleep at the switch the entire damn night. I'd be inclined to agree with that, depending on your definition of outstanding. That's fair as well, though I think you don't give him enough credit for this last stretch, writing it off as average. He's been really solid the last six games and his truly bad games this year have coincided with truly bad games out of the Red Wings team. But he gets killed for those. That game against St. Louis where he got the hook b/c of giving up 4 on 12 shots: There wasn't a damn thing he could've done about the first three of those goals. The fourth was on the weak side, but at that point, the confidence is shaken, things are starting to steamroll, and Mayers made a great shot. 1 "bad" goal, 3 that weren't dissimilar from the ones we gave up last night, and people wanted to run him out of the city. It's just not consistent. I'd agree with that. As well as Dats has played, you can still rattle him somewhat by taking the body--and to be fair it's like that with a lot of smaller star players. I don't know what you all see in Downey. I appreciate that he's not afraid to fight, but the guy just can't play the game. He's useless out there. Ideally, I'd like to see a decent player that's able to fight, but I know every team in the league would like one of those guys. I'll hafta catch ya the next time around. I'm heading home for Christmas, so I doubt I'll be back on the internet before this go-round is over.

Yeah Peterson was injured with a minute left in the third quarter when it was already 27-0. At the time he had 11 carries for 45 yards (And for the record, even against Minnesota's vaunted run defense, Grant had 119 yards and a TD). Green Bay had the ball for over 40 minutes in that game. It was a complete ass kicking and Peterson's injury made no difference in the game. There's no way that you can convince me that Minnesota has gotten 34 points better. They beat Oakland, the Giants, Detroit, SF and Chicago. Anytime you can win 5 in a row in the NFL, that's something to be proud of, but it doesn't warrant the BJer that they've been getting, particularly when right before that streak they were completely outclassed by Green Bay. Plus, a big reason Peterson is as good as he is is because he's so goddamn fast. If it's bad weather, it slows him down. Grant has been compared to Edgar Bennett and Dorsey Levens all season--two great backs in the muck. And I'll say it again: Tarvaris Jackson. On the road. In a playoff game. As for the Pats, you shouldn't need to "find a way to win" against AJ Feeley and Kyle Boller. You can view those games as proof positive that the Pats are a great team if you want to. I look at it as if either of those teams had had their starting QB, they probably win. As it was, the Ravens gifted that game to New England and they're one of the worst teams in the NFL. Gifted might even be a bit of an understatement. The Jags have a great run defense. I think a SD/Jacksonville matchup would probably be the best playoff game opening weekend, but I like that Jacksonville team. Their QB is really good and he doesn't turn the ball over. They've got 2 really solid RBs and a really darn good defense. I wouldn't like San Diego's chances as much because Rivers is pretty mediocre, they haven't showed that they can win in the cold, and Norv Turner is their coach....but they've got a defensive line that can get to Brady and they can run the ball. I'm not sold on the Chargers though. They seem like a team that's more likely to choke in the first round than put together 3 good games in a row. New England is still the favorite, I'm just saying that I see two teams that are better suited for the cold weather who have the capability of taking them out. If you don't buy it, that's fine. But NE has looked really human against the Jets, Eagles and Ravens....and Jacksonville & Indy are head and shoulders better than those teams. You want to be playing your best football heading into the playoffs, and it's pretty hard to say the Pats are doing that at the moment.

The thing is, since Ryan Grant has taken over, he's led the NFL in rushing. The Packers have a running game now too. He only started half the season and he's still got a decent chance at a 1,000 yard season. I'm not scared of the Vikings because 1) They haven't beaten anybody in this stretch. 2) The Packers just beat them 34-0 with Adrian Peterson in the lineup. 3) Tarvaris Jackson on the road in a playoff game. Tarvaris Jackson on the road in a playoff game. Tarvaris Jackson on the road in a playoff game. Don't buy into the Vikings hype. The media loved the Giants when they won 6 in a row against the Weak Sisters of the Poor, and now we realize that they suck. The media loved Seattle when they won 8 in a row (or something) against nobodies, and they flopped on the road against Carolina last week. Now they're in love with Minnesota. Why? Because they blew out the Lions and Giants? C'mon. Not to say they couldn't come into Lambeau and win, but I don't see it happening. They're definitely not a team to be scared of. And there's at least a decent chance that the Packers won't have the potential to see the Vikings until the NFC Championship (if the Vikings are the 6 seed and the Packers are the 2 seed). No way that team goes on the road and beats Seattle and Dallas first. The Pats are going to be tough, don't get me wrong. But they've looked like ass in the bad weather games thusfar. If you've got a defense that can get pressure on Brady, a running game, and you take care of the football, you can beat the Pats. Philly and Baltimore nearly pulled it off, but they needed to play perfect games since they're not that good. And they couldn't quite do it. A team like Jacksonville (who already showed against Pittsburgh they can play in bad weather unlike typical Florida teams) or Indy can do it. Even the biggest Pats homer on the planet, Bill Simmons, has expressed fear that the Pats might be better suited to playing indoors and that they might not be built to play in a bad weather game. If the Jags play the Chargers, I'm picking Jacksonville, but that would be a good game. Norv Turner and Phil Rivers in a playoff game though? Sounds like fun.

You're so full of it. Osgood kicks out his pad really quick on a shot from the point and Daniels and Redmond are like "BIG STOP OSGOOD!" and the sheep here believe it and say "OMG HE WAS AMAZING!" (It's already happened 2 or 3 times on this thread). Note that I'm not saying he played bad last night. I didn't blame him for any of the goals, and I've repeatedly said he was fine, in this thread. But Dom has a game like that (like in those ones that "barely qualify as games") and we can go ahead and write off those performances. It's BS. I already debunked the "Teams he's facing" myth a few posts back, since I knew that was coming. And the "team in front of him" failed him miserably in those back-to-back losses to St. Louis and Chicago, but that didn't stop people here from wanting to hang him. But let's go ahead and give the team in front of him all the credit for when Dom plays well and none of the credit when it's the Oz in net. He does it all himself, yussir. My favorite part of this whole thing is that Osgood is playing the best hockey of his career (and he is, he's been out of his mind), people are falling all over themselves to jerk him off, and yet his save percentage is just the slightest tick about Dom's career mark. If you want an example of why Hasek is going to get everyone opportunity to be the playoff starter, that's why. It's a testament to how great Hasek has been in his career. He's basically played 700 games at the top-notch level that Osgood is currently playing at. It's pretty damn impressive if you ask me--and probably the best example of why people should show him the slightest bit of respect. I've said it before, I'll say it again. Both our goalies are pretty bad ass.

Call me crazy, but if New England has to go through Indy and Jacksonville to get to the Super Bowl, I don't think we'll see them there. I don't think New England is equipped to play in cold weather the way the Colts and Jaguars are. Both those teams play solid defense, can run the ball very effectively to control the clock and keep Brady off the field, and don't turn it over (especially Jacksonville--Garrard has just 2 picks this year). The Pats are built to throw, throw, throw. Their run defense is suspect, and they haven't really shown the ability to really pound the rock. I actually think they'd be better off NOT having homefield this year. They'll be fine if their home games are in the 40s, but if it's really cold or there's precipitation of some sort, I actually like both those other teams. As for the NFC, I have a hard time picking against the Pack right now. It's shaping up to be a storybook season, with Favre playing like an MVP, Grant emerging, and this team getting off to a 12-2 start that no one saw coming. The more I watch Dallas, the more I'm convinced that Green Bay can and will beat them. In that 37-27 game, the Cowboys played as well as they could play. Green Bay stunk, were missing some key players on defense, had an asinine gameplan early on, and lost Favre. And they still had the ball at their own 40, down by 3 in the fourth quarter. Since then, Dallas has stunk, TO is about to explode, Romo dinged his thumb (which will probably be an issue the rest of the year...based on watching Favre a couple times when that happened to him in 99 and 04, I believe). Honestly, it wouldn't shock me if homefield ends up going to the Packers. But if not, I'm really not scared of going back down to Dallas. I picked the Packers to win it all 1) because I'm an unabashed homer. 2) Because they match up with New England better than any team in the league. 3) I think they're flat out better than anyone else in the AFC. 4) Because I can't think of anything more magical than closing this season with a Super Bowl win. Sometimes it just feels like the stars are lining up. At the start of the year, I would've been happy with playoffs and a win in one game. Now, I'm at the point where I'm going to be crushed if they don't win the whole thing. What an amazing season.... GO PACK!

I guess. Babcock has been pretty clear about what the plan is though.... To me, it doesn't make sense TO play either goalie night after night. Like I said, neither of them is Brett Favre in terms of durability. Hasek appears to have played his way out of the slump and Osgood has been pretty darn good for the most part. It's pretty hard to argue with the results thusfar.

Well, the other goalie is 5-0-1 in his last six starts and is giving up like 1.75 per game, so it's hard to argue with it. As much as people don't want to admit it, Osgood is still the backup on this team. He's playing great hockey, but Dom is getting first crack at the playoffs, and so it makes sense to give him every opportunity to play himself out of his slump. And it appears he's doing just that. And it's not like either goalie is the model of perfect health, so maybe it makes more sense NOT to play one of them night after night....

Wait, did we win both of those games? Why yes, yes we did. So I guess playing Dom was the right move...and it appears as if it's working to get him out of his slump. And Osgood was fine tonight. He more than anyone is used to sitting for long periods of time and then stepping in and playing well (see the 2nd half of last year). To say that he "cooled off" by sitting for two games is nothing but an excuse, and quite honestly I don't think you need to make one for him. He was fine tonight. I didn't think he was as amazing as Ken and Mickey seemed to think (How many times are we going to yell "BIG SAVE OSGOOD!" on unscreened shots from the top of the circle, guys?) but he played fine. None of the goals were weak. It was just one of those nights. Goalies can't always win games by themselves. Sometimes a loss isn't the goalie's fault. Sometimes giving up >2 goals isn't the goalie's fault. Sometimes a bad save % isn't the goalie's fault. People on both sides of the "war" would be wise to remember that. Both our goalies are bad ass.

Wings 3 (Hudler, Zetterberg, Homer) Blues 2 (Boyes with 2) Keep it rolling, red and white! Pretty good day when I get to watch 2 Wings games (DVR'ed the FSD replay since those aren't blacked out and watched it when I got up) Hail Gary Suter Someone putting Kariya through the boards tonight would also be appreciated