scotzman

While we're "nine points out" I still feel just making the playoffs should not be the goal. Not to mention the parody... there are literally only 2 or 3 teams completely out of it right now. In fact, I think only Colorado & Arizona are out for sure. Like I said, I'm willing to see what he does in the draft & even free agency, but I don't put much hope in his plans anymore.

I get it, just found it amusing that it became an issue. Was hardly the only person traipsing down that rabbit trail. It's all good, I'm not offended in the least. Just happy to talk hockey.

Was making reference to when I was admonished for talking about Holland instead of trades... tough room.

I'm enjoying how effortlessly this "Trade Deadline" thread transitioned to a prospect/draft thread.

Can't do it anymore. Maybe he'll change my mind after the draft.

I'd like to point out again that not once have I suggested that the Trade Deadline was the quick fix or the magic bullet. My assertion will continue to be that this is another piece of the problem that is Ken Holland. His moves, whether they are contracts, trades or coaching decisions have been bad for a while now. If people can't see that, I'm not sure they ever will.

That seems like a pretty pushy statement... are you the arbiter of what can and can't be discussed? I'm not trying to pick a fight, but you sure seem hellbent on telling me what to do. Again, I only responded to where the conversation was going.

I'd give him a B- overall for this year. The Jurco, Smith and Ott trades were fair to good. Disappointed with Vanek, but understand what he had to do. He got what he could. This was just more of the same from Kenny in my book. I don't hate the guy, but I think it's time for something new. He plays it safe far too often and as has been pointed out, doesn't seem to see this team crumbling around him. Maybe he does, but I don't see any urgency to get it back on course. We'll see what happens around the NHL Draft.

Sorry for your confusion... if you're following along, there have been quite a few people upset with the Vanek trade. I mentioned my displeasure but added that it's not solely due to the Vanek trade but his recent body of work. At that point, a few people pointed out to me that they disagreed with that opinion. I proceeded to plead my case. Hope that clears it up for you.

I hope he gets a look with the big club just so we can watch him fight...

Were you confused about my attitude toward him? I think he needs to move on. He's not cutting it anymore. Not just because of Vanek, which I think I've made abundantly clear. I'm totally willing to eat my words after this years NHL Draft if he can unload Tatar/Nyquist and possibly Green. I'd prefer he moves Nyquist, but I'm not sure he can make that happen.

That would not have been a surprise... that says something.

I would think the business side of it would maybe require the GM to acquire a show piece for the new Little Caesars Arena in 2017-2018 season. We'll see if he can pull that off during the NHL Draft. I'm not very hopeful in his ability to do that. Not mad at Holland for Vanek trade alone... it's the sum of all his boneheaded moves and play it safe mentality.

For all the Ken Holland apologists, it's not just the return for Vanek that bothers people. It's the poor management of this team since 2009. Babcock was truly able to get everything out of those 2008 & 2009 Cup teams. From that point forward Babcock made it known he was doing the best with what he was given by the GM. He willed those teams to the playoffs most of the years after 2009. You may be able to find it, but I don't recall saying this team "sucks" but I will readily admit I think that Kenny has let the game pass him by. He's not as shrewd as we thought he was. It's time for him to move on.

What franchise is happy just making the playoffs? The goal is the Stanley Cup. I don't want a GM that's happy with anything less. If you don't win it, you do whatever you can to improve and get closer. Point to what moves Kenny has made since 2009 to get back to the Stanley Cup. To make it extremely simple, name a bold move Kenny has made to get closer to another Stanley Cup since 2009.

Mediocrity for the last 6+ years headed into a new barn is definitely something to sell to your fanbase.

So, much like our GM, you're happy with the status quo? One decent Playoff run since 2010 is all you require?

Before I answer a question with so many possible scenarios, let me ask you: Are you happy with Ken Holland continuing as the GM and rebuilding this team?

I don't think we're really disagreeing on much... Point is, while Kenny has been a "successful" GM for 20 years, it's time for something new. We had an incredible run, but it ain't working the way it used to.

It's the sum of his ineptitude over the last 5-7 years. Bad contracts. Playing it safe. Losing Babcock. Not moving up to make room for Yzerman. Just some really bad moves.

Based on all the garbage contracts Kenny has doled out, I don't have much faith in his ability to rebuild. Plus, he really didn't do much as a "seller" for the first time in his career. Is it okay to admit it's time for new blood at the top? He's been here a long time and has been successful (or enjoyed others' success... surely debatable) but it feels like the game has passed him by. The excuses are getting old. This rebuild should've started 5 years ago. First order of business should've been making Kenny move up and allowing Steve Yzerman to be GM.

Not betting Vanek won't be traded, just that Kenny is tempting fate. Why take the risk? To me it just shows how truly incompetent Kenny can be.

Every Vanek shift, when he touches the puck, I hold my breath. I don't get it.

I don't get it... seems like a gamble you don't need to take.

More likely Holland's a dumbass...