Outsider

Well, he was downright bad against Edmonton. He was pretty bad against Dallas. And he didn't exactly shine against Chicago, either.

And I guess that's what it comes down to, really. From Howard, "good" is acceptable. From Osgood, Babcock wants, and expects, "great". He'll get it. But he won't get it from the bench. That's a guarantee. pokepokejabjab

Actually, Miller.... Howard has lost 3 of his last 5, and 5 of his last 10 Starts. And against some of the weakest Teams in the League - Teams like Edmonton, and St. Louis, and Columbus. Similarly, the Wins he's put up have also been against some of the worst Teams in the League - Teams like the Rangers, the Duckies, Tampa Bay, and the Jackets. The only really decent Team he's faced and posted a Win against was Phoenix.

Once again, Z&D..... A "good test" against a Team coming in on the second night of back-to-back games.

Oddly enough, I agree with the first paragraph you posted. I stated it last Season about Conklin, and earlier this Season about Howard. I was lambasted for it on both occasions as an "Osgood slappy". (Which is not necessarily untrue, but doesn't make my take on things wrong, either.) Last year Conklin was used as a "stick" to poke Ozzie. This year? Howard is being used similarly. I hope it works. And I hope it doesn't have a detrimental effect on Howard. Conklin is a journeyman, career back-up. The Wings are hoping that Howard will be something more. On the other hand....I haven't heard Ozzie make comments such as those in the article since....well...... Since he was coached by Bowman.

With all due respect, Miller: When push comes to shove, and you need "clutch", there are very few goaltenders in this League who know what it takes to Win better than Chris Osgood. The guy has built a career on it. He's never been the best Regular Season goaltender while with the Wings. He's never had to be. But he's been money in the Post Season. Take a look at his performances with terrible Teams on LI and in St. Louis. When push came to shove, for both of those Teams, Osgood picked them up and dragged them into the Play Offs, despite having to overcome an otherwise completely crappy Regular Season in 2002-2003 for the Islanders. His only full Season in St. Louis, (2003-2004), the Blues were the lowest scoring Team to make the Play Offs that year, and they lost MacInnis three Games into the Season, and lost Jackman for a good chunk of time six Games into the Season with a separated shoulder. They sucked on Offense, AND Defense. He played 67 Games, (because both Johnson and Divis were terrible), and nearly single-handedly pulled them into the Post Season. Oz knows whereof he speaks. If the Team "needs" him, he will be there. That's what he does. It's what he's always done. Again, it's what he's built a career on.

Dreadful thing to happen. Thoughts and prayers.

<sigh> I'm not trying to "discredit" his accomplishments. I'm trying to temper everyone here who thinks he's suddenly worthy and capable of leading this Team through a long play off run, based on a record built up almost exclusively against bottom feeders. (There....is the bold better than teh CAPS?). In the future, I'll try to post in a style more in line with what you'd like to see. Deal?

Have to go to the lovely DMV, but I'll answer when I get back. But just quickly..... By the way....Toward the beginning of the Season, Detroit was scoring more, too. How much good is the NINE spot they threw up against Columbus, or the SEVEN they hung on the Duckies doing them RIGHT NOW? How many goals has Columbus scored in their past 10 Games? Here's a hint: They're making EVERY goalie they face look like a Vezina candidate. Just as the Wings are. Chicago I'll give you. They're scoring ~3 goals per game. That's EXACTLY what they scored against us. Twice. Dallas scored 4 against Howard the last Game out. Tampa? Look at how they were scoring COMING INTO the Game where Howard faced him. On a SCORING SLUMP, just as the Wings currently are. St. Louis and Edmonton have both averaged MORE GA against Howard than their "average". Go figure. As for Colorado? Coincidentally..... Coming in on the SECOND NIGHT OF BACK-TO-BACKS. Again....he's being PLACED into situations where he has the best possible chance to succeed, and the LEAST opportunity to face adversity.

EXACTLY. Takes a lot more than just fancy flying....

Please, steve.....puhlease. For the record.... AT THE TIME, the Wings were NOT "better in the Standings". They were no better than 9th when they faced these Teams. ALL were below the Wings when they faced off against them. All but Phoenix, Colorado, and Chicago. You're going to sit there and type that "with the parity in the League being what it is", that there is little to no difference between the San Jose Sharks and the St. Louis Blues? That the level of competition when facing the New Jersey Devils is comparable to that when facing the Columbus Blue Jackets. Yes, there's "parity" in the League. But to state that there's "only 11 pts" separating the BEST Teams in the League from the rest of the pack is utterly ridiculous, AND disingenuous. There are only TEN points separating the Wings from the Edmonton Oilers. Are the Edmonton Oilers "only 10 points" worse than the Wings? STANDINGS ASIDE? The Oil are five Games BELOW .500, and STILL "only 10 pts" behind the Wings. Toronto is only SEVEN points behind the Wings. Are THEY "almost as good" as the Wings? Give your head a shake.

Hmmmm..... Hard to tell. VERY hard to tell. I'm always, ALWAYS hesitant to overrate a young/rookie goaltender. ANYONE can have a good year. ANYONE, (at this level), can look like a Vezina Candidate for a year. Many HAVE, as a matter of fact. I need to see more than a year. Or even TWO years. I need to see consistency. And I need to see "heart". THAT is the true measure of a goaltender, in my eyes. ALL goaltenders who make it to the NHL Level have "skill". ALL have "talent". Without exception. Otherwise, they never would've made it to this level. Period. Takes a LOT more than that to be a successful goaltender in THIS League, though. How does he respond to adversity? Over the long haul.....not over the course of a few months. Or even a whole Season. The thing I like most about Halak is that he is NOT "flashy". He plays a rather boring-looking game in net. That tells me something about him. Substance over style. Any goaltender can look "quick". Any goaltender can make that flashy save that makes your jaw drop. When they're barely moving, and it looks EASY out there..... THAT is when I'm impressed.

I'd say that Tukka Rask in Boston is posting comparable stats. Of course, HE is facing crappy competition, too. Nitty in Tampa is close, too. And on a worse Team. ***Edit*** Although you're probably right.....Niittymaki isn't exactly a "rookie", is he? Antti Niemi in Chicago hasn't played as many Games, but he's facing FAR better competition. And posting better stats. Jaroslav Halak in Montreal comes to mind, too. Of course....I didn't mention Varlamov. He's currently injured, but was playing fantastically well prior to the groin injury.

Absolutely, I'll enjoy it. And you're right....we DO need every single point. All I'm saying is that some here, (not all....definitely not all), are reading a bit much into it. That's all.

Loo: Truly sorry you won't get to see your boy play for CR in the 2010 Games. That's gotta be disappointing.

Yes. That IS all you can ask, Carman. He HAS done well with what he's been given. Did you expect him NOT to, considering the Teams he's been facing? But that doesn't take into consideration all those who are ready to hand Howard the Calder AND the Starting job, (even into the Post Season - knock on wood), based on a record built up almost exclusively against the worst Teams in the NHL. A little perspective here.

Hey there, Doc.....I know you've noticed the same pattern. Yes, Howard is playing well. BUT..... I don't think there's a person here who wouldn't concede that Howard's Games are being closely managed, micro-managed even, in order to give him the most favorable match-ups, with the best possible outcomes, and with the least amount of adversity possible. There's ONE Team he's faced, all Season long, where there was not a better than even chance of Victory. Chicago. As previously stated, that was a Loss. Not his fault, really. You can't Win if your Team doesn't score, but a Loss, nonetheless. Also, take a look at the OVERALL schedule, people. And compare it to Howards slate of Starts. Then compare the Starts that Osgood has gotten. Without exception, Osgood has gotten the TOUGHER opponents, under the least favorable conditions, every single time.

Context, please. Context. When he faced Vancouver, the 'Nucks were below the Wings in the Standings. Dallas? Against Turco? Come on. Had it not been Turco in net, at JLA......? But, (regardless), Dallas was below the Wings in the Standings when he faced them, too. When he faced the Rangers, they also were below the Wings in the Standings. As a matter of fact, they still have fewer points, in a weaker Conference, than the Wings. I already stated that he was good against Phoenix on the 14th of December. And he was. That was a good, quality Win against a tough opponent. Chicago? He played alright in that Game. He also lost. Facing a Team, (as stated previously), on the second night of back-to-backs, and with a fresh Team in front of him. Take another glance over your list. And tell me how many REAL QUALITY Teams he's faced out of the 23 Games he's played.

Not for nothin', but the real test will be once he begins to consistently face quality NHL Teams, rather than the non-stop spate of bottom dwellers he's been racking up those impressive stats against. The only real Team he's even faced this Season has been Chicago. Then again, he was also pretty good in the Win against Phoenix mid-December. Other than that? He's played every bottom feeder on the schedule thus far this year. I know I'm going to be blasted for pointing it out, (especially considering I am a huge Osgood fan!), and perhaps rightfully so, but let's not get too crazy here. With the exception of Chicago, (on THEIR second night of back-to-backs after facing the Sharks the night before), the only Teams he's really even been allowed to face are the Teams that the Wings are capable of beating.

The scoring on this Team STARTS on the back end. With Nick, Sr. not producing, and with Nick, Jr. out of the line-up, we see the results on the Power Play.

I agree. I'll take Nick on the blue line, even if he IS completely absent from the score-sheet, over no Nick at all. Every day of the week. One has to wonder, however, how the obviously painful performance this Season from Norris Nick bodes for him re-signing next Season. <shudders at scary, scaaaaary thought> And I can empathize, socal. This has been one seriously frustrating Season, thus far. No harm, no foul.

Yes, he is. He's playing in Sweden. And you can bet your very soul that if he was in ANY shape whatsoever to play in the NHL, he'd be here. He's not. So he's there. Again....THAT is the effect all of the injuries had on Forsberg toward the end of his NHL career. He's chosen to play in Sweden because the "kinder", "gentler" game there allows him to continue to play, and gives him a shot at International glory - such as that he may find on the Swedish Olympic Team.

That may very well be the case. Exactly the case. Just as it was with Stevie toward the end. And if that is the case then you have to ask yourself: What's better? Nick Lidstrom on Defense, but with ZERO Offense? Or NO Nick Lidstrom.....AT ALL? Again....that's pretty much a no-brainer for me.

Shall I break it down for you? How was Yzerman's Game effected by his knee injury toward the end of his career? How was Forsberg's Game effected by the plethora of injuries he suffered, (most recently his foot) toward the end of his career? How was Patrick Roy's Game effected by the terrible hip pain toward the end of his career? How was Mario's Game effected by his bad back toward the end of his career? Eric Lindros' by concussions? Bure's knees? Bossy's back? How many examples do you need of players, even GREAT players, who suffered through pain toward the end of their careers, and had their Game(s) drastically altered by it?

You fail to see the point. If he HAS the surgery, due to the NATURE of the injury, and his age, and the nature of what he DOES for a living, how he uses the arm every day.....(It's not like the guy works a 9-5 desk job, after all): There is NO GUARANTEE that he'd make it back....AT ALL. Let's face it, he's not far from retirement as it is. He probably IS better off playing through the pain than risking NEVER PLAYING....EVER....AGAIN. Just out of curiosity, what part of that is unclear to you?