Outsider

Hmmmm..... "How do you fix this team's defensive problems?" Well..... A good start would be to STOP saying that "the goaltending just needs to be better." That has been Babcock's mantra all Season long. And it has let the rest of the Team off the hook, enabling them to continue with their sloppy, irresponsible play. Some nights they're better than others, but overall, there have been very few games where the Wings have played "Red Wings Hockey" this Season. Perhaps if the Defense was better, the goaltending wouldn't look so bad. The Defense has been a Clutterbuck all year. Last night, it came to a head.

Ty will be 33 at the end of this month.

<sigh> Confidence. Patience. Poise. Perfection. Seems worlds away, tonight. C'mon, guys! You ARE the Champs! Play like it.

Thank you, nn. Injury, then?

True enough, nn. I'm aware of that. I was curious to know why Howard didn't even dress as the back up tonight. Is he, in fact, injured?

I'm gonna get slammed for this, but hey.... SDavis....until last year with the Pens, Conklin has NEVER been considered an NHL quality back up at all, let alone a "solid" back up. He's struggled to crack an NHL roster his entire career, and he's spent as much time in the AHL during that 7 year span as he has in the NHL. You also "misrecall" his role in Edmonton's "playoff rush". The reality of the situation is that Conklin was so farkin' bad in Edmonton, the Oilers had no choice but to go out and get Roloson. He's also had numerous opportunities to "find a team he can stick with". He just hasn't been able to STICK with any of them. Edmonton, Buffalo, Columbus, and Pittsburgh all let him go without so much as a second thought, (and that's being charitable, in some cases). To state anything to the contrary is revisionist history, in the extreme. Conklin has been resillient in that he's been waived and then demoted by every Team he's ever signed with, (after failing to secure a position as the back up), and yet he keeps trying. He's a fighter, you have to give him that.

Perhaps, eva. Perhaps not. I'm probably reading waaaaay to much into it, but is Jimmy Howard injured? Or is there some legit reason why he didn't dress for the Griffins game against the LE Monsters tonight?

<sigh.....> poke poke jab jab Case in point....

Nothing much, I guess. Depending on your point of view. Just the fact that you have, on a number of occasions, called one of the best Defenseman, (some would argue the best Defenseman), to ever play the Game, a six-time Norris Trophy Winner, a sure-fire, first ballot, Hockey Hall of Famer, and definitely one of the greatest Players in Detroit Red Wings history..... Nicklas Lindstrom. It's rather like: Gordie Howell or Terry Sapchick

Out of sincere curiosity, do you do that on purpose?

With all due respect: You can take the calmest, most mellow Yeller Dawg ever to grace God's earth. Keep poking, prodding, and jabbing that kind creature over, and over, and over again. Sooner or later, you're gonna get snapped at. Period. And THEN you're gonna get all righteously indignant because his teeth are sharp? Doesn't mean the dawg's ill mannered, nor poorly trained. What it usually means is that he finally got tired of being jabbered at and pestered. The Dawg's reaction is as much a reflection on the jabberer as it is on himself. Perhaps more so. It's been happening A LOT around here lately. Normally "calm", "rational", "reasonable" posters are getting tired of geting jabbered at and pestered. And they're starting to get snappish. Kevvie is 100% right. I mentioned it a week or so ago. Very soon, this place is going to be abandoned by the "calm", "rational", "reasonable" types, and left to the jabberers and pests. Damned shame, too.....

Wow.... And yet another individual sees it......

Interesting take on Biron's career. "Awfully terrible"? While I don't think Biron's been good, by any means, I wouldn't call him "awfully terrible". I'd probably call him "pedestrian at best". Had he something to show for his 11 years in the League, (more than 1 Post Season appearance, some Play Off Victories, a solid Play Off showing, ANYTHING....), I might rate him higher than that. But he's got nothin'.....nada. Zip. Zilch. Zero. Oddly enough, Martin Biron and Ty Conklin have nearly identical career stats. Main difference between the two has been that Biron has been a Starter his entire career, with at least a tentative hold on the Starters job in Buffalo for 8 years, and a similarly tentative hold on the Starters job in Philadelphia for the past 3. Whereas Conklin has always been a back up, and other than his 3 year back up role in Edmonton, has spent nearly as much of his career in the AHL as he has in the NHL, and usually hasn't settled in one place for more than a year at a time, in either League.

Relax.... Howard wasn't sent down becauase he had a "bad game". He was sent down because that was the plan all along. From MLive on February 20th "Howard is expected to be sent back to Grand Rapids after Saturday's game." I posted earlier in this thread that I didn't understand where anyone, (other than the Great George Sipple), had gotten the impression that the Wings were shutting Osgood down for "the next 10 days", all Holland said was that he would "get 10 days" with no games in order to clear his head. Apparently, (as I surmised), when he said "10 days with no games" it was intended to be from his last Start against Colorado, to the game on the 25th against San Jose.

Interestingly, Ted Kulfan at the DetNews just wrote in his post game blurb that Osgood would work on his game, "over the weekend."

I'm not really sure where anyone, other than George Sipple, got the impression that the Wings were shutting Oz down for the NEXT 10 days. Sounds to me like Holland & Co. called up Howard to start tomorrow in Minnesota, plan to leave Ozzie home with J. Bedard, intend to return Howard back to Grand Rapids, (per A. Kahn), after tomorrow's game, and go from there. That would make "10 days" from the last game Oz played, (against Colorado), until the game against San Jose. Ken Holland stated that this was an opportunity for Chris to have "10 days off", to clear his head. He didn't mention anything about "the next 10 days off". I could be wrong though.... (God knows.....it wouldn't be the first time....)

Wings aren't seeking goalie... Some choice excerpts from the man who scouted him, drafted him, and knows him better than anyone else in Hockey....(hmmm....maybe dcd is right, and I am psychic....either that, or I freakin' KNOW this goaltender....) : And for those of you criticizing Oz for his unflagging confidence in himself, rather than playing the "I've been terrible. I have to be better." violin.... Come on, Oz.... Pull up, buddy....Pull up......

LOL.... I'll have to take exception to that, AND call you out for it. You did, in fact, accuse me of attacking you. And moreover, accused me of being a "coward" for doing so. You then followed that up by inferring that I was both ignorant, and uneducated. Scroll down to post #50 in the thread... If that is an offer of truce, then I accept.

Here I go attacking you again.... With all due respect, the ONLY reason that the Wings are able to sign Players like Zetterberg, Hossa, Dats, et al, to what everyone considers to be FAR below market value for Players of their calibre, is BECAUSE of the loyalty they've exhibited toward their Players throughout the years. Premier Players choose to leave money on the table, and sign with Detroit "on the cheap" because they know that not only will they have a chance at Winning, but they, and their families, will be well taken care of and respected. While you, personally, don't seem to like Osgood, he is known League-wide as a stand-up Team first guy, who has always done everything the Wings Organization has asked of him. If the Wings jettison him now, after 30 questionable regular season games, having been a loyal and fantastically productive Wing for 10+ years, and less than a year after Winning the Cup..... That doesn't tie into the infinitely valuable "Team if Family" atmosphere Mr. I has nurtured, (to great success, I might add), since he bought the "Dead Things". It makes them look like mercenaries.

Lest you think I'm "attacking" you, let me preface this by saying that I have watched Kari Lehtonen play, a lot. Well....as much as can be expected, considering his injury history. While he's a very talented goaltender, he's a walking nightmare, injury-wise. He's been plagued by groin, hip, and (most recently, and not nearly as "chronically"), back injuries. He's been battling the groin/hip thing from the time he was 21? 22? years old, and has missed significant playing time because of it. His Coach in Atlanta also called him out on a couple of occasions for not being "committed" to his own training/health, and indicated that he might spend less time on Injured Reserve if he weren't so.....um...... "Pudgy". And again, if you think I'm "attacking" you, simply run a Yahoo! or Google search on "Kari Lehtonen injured". It's rather scary how such a young, seemingly "sturdy" lad can be so fragile.

In defense of the crappy Avs announcers, Oz let in a sh!t ton of goals tonight. Even had the crappy Avs announcer called each goal in a calm, soothing manner, the sheer frequency of the calls could very well have made him a bit hoarse.

A third goalie? As in Larsson or Howard? Good idea. Brilliant, in fact. In essence you take even more playing time away from your veteran Starter, playing time that would be best served in getting his game ramped up. Regardless.... You give less ice-time to Osgood, in favor Ty Conklin. And you give the little that's left to one of Howard/Larrson. What happens when, (yes, I said when), Conklin reminds everyone in Detroit exactly why he has been/will always be nothing more than a serviceable BACK UP goaltender? Then, you get to choose between a raw rookie, or a veteran who's struggled all year, and didn't get the opportunity down the stretch to ramp up his Game for the Play Offs. What's your contingency plan? What's "Option B"? Because what you're asking for, nay.....what you're begging for.....is Manny Legace, v 2.1. Every single comment/observation being made about Conklin, now, was made about Legace in the past. And Legace at least had a decent HISTORY, unlike Conklin. For cripes sake, until last year, the guy couldn't even keep a job as an NHL BACK UP. Sooner or later, at the age of these two goaltenders, (Osgood and Conklin), they WILL revert to their normal form/playing level. Osgood as a solid, consistent Starter and Conklin as a career back up. What do you do then?

Ummm..... Actually, through October and November, Hasek was riding a GAA of 3.35 and SVP of .864. Babcock's response? Play him. Play him more, in order to get him going. It worked. That's what you have to do with your Starting goaltender. You've got to allow him to play through it. That's all anyone here is advocating.

Ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous. You can't just send players down, and bring others up, "just 'cuz." In order to send Osgood down and bring up one of the young goalies, Osgood would have to pass through waivers. Do you honestly think he'd make it down to Grand Rapids? A two time Cup Winner, making a paltry $1.4M, would be snatched off the waiver wire before you could say "Oops! Bad decision!". Then you'd have no choice but to go with Conklin and one of the kids, and hope that Conklin's 6 minutes worth of Play Off experience will be enough to get the Wings through the Post Season. Give your head a shake.....

Again.... WHICH PART IS NOT CLEAR? Jesus H. Christ on a pogo-stick.....y'all are a frustrating bunch. It HAS worked for Turco. I repeat.... It HAS worked for Turco! He's turned the corner, and has been playing excellent hockey lately. Have you not been paying attention? He's back on track, because he's been given EVERY GAME. Because he's PLAYED. He's played EVERY DAMNED GAME, Win or Lose. He's got FIFTY GAMES under his belt, whereas his back up has SEVEN. The reason that "it's not working for Ozzie" is because it HASN'T BEEN TRIED! Osgood has 29 games under his belt, whereas his back up has 28. See the difference? It's really not that difficult to understand if you apply simple math. Turco has played 93% of the games thus far this season. Osgood has played 51% of the games thus far this season. Osgood has only played FIFTY ONE PERCENT of the Games. What part of that don't you understand? He just came off a stint where he SAT for 8 days in between starts. If you want him to get better, he has to play, for the love of God. And not just every other game. As for Dom: He was coming off of multiple injuries, at 43 years of age, and with a goaltending style which demands alot from a young, supple, flexible 25 year old body. The majority of Hasek's struggles last Season cannot be attributed to skill/focus/confidence. They were mostly due to things well beyond Dominik's control. You can't ***** about your wife being a terrible cook, demand that she learn how to cook, forbid her to cook because her cooking's terrible, and then ***** because her cooking hasn't gotten any better. Jeez.... You wanna make an omelette? You've gotta break a few eggs. The Stars have broken their fair share of eggs this Season. It's starting to pay off, though, because their cooking is getting better and better as the play offs approach. And isn't THAT the whole point?