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EXCELLENT Point. Now, pay attention, 'cause here's were it gets tricky.... Turco has played FIFTY GAMES. His BACK UP has played SEVEN GAMES. Even when Turco was SINGLE-HANDEDLY LOSING GAMES for the Stars earlier this Season, he played. He played, and played, and played. And after that? He played again! And again, and again, and again. He played every f*(king game. And why? Because his Coach KNOWS that that is the ONLY way to get a struggling goalie going. You have to PLAY THEM. You have to ALLOW them to get better. And the only way to do that, is to PLAY THEM. Once again....pay attention....there's gonna be a test..... NO ONE expects Osgood to "get hot immediately in the playoff because of experience and number of games". NO ONE. That's because the majority of fans understand that the ONLY way for a goalie, ANY GOALIE, to "get hot" in the Play Offs is to GET THEM GOING, NOW, BEFORE the Play Offs begin! And that is sure as HellFire not gonna happen if he's only playing FIFTY PERCENT of the Games down the stretch. The reason that Turco has shaken off his early season s***tiness is because he's PLAYED THROUGH IT. You have to play Osgood now, before the Post Season begins, in order to GET him hot. You keep posting the same thing, around and around in circles, contradicting yourself. What part of this is so difficult for you to understand?

Point #1 - It's not 56 games in for Chris Osgood. He's played 29 games. Look how many games it's taken Turco to get his game back. Point #2 - Only way to "get his head back in the game", is to GET "back in the game". Period. That's not gonna happen from the bench. Point #3 - Not getting 50% of the starts, no. And certainly not sitting for 7-8 days in between starts. The only way to get through it, is to play through it. Point #4 - Above, you state that "it's not something he's going to play through". Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but sitting him for 50% of the games, including stretches of a week or more at a time, certainly hasn't yielded altogether satisfactory results. Try another tack.... Keep throwing him out there. It's always, (and I do mean always), worked before. He's a battler. Give him time, and he'll respond. But he can't battle from the bench. He's got to play.

Typically, most Teams DO play better in front of their back-up goaltender. Just as they play better in front of the raw rook who gets called up to fill in during an injury.

Well.... Except for the fact that when Osgood came in in relief of Hasek against Nashville, the Wings were replacing a goaltender who had played 119 Career Stanley Cup Play Off games, having notched 65 Career Stanley Cup Play Off Victories, while posting 14 Career Stanley Cup Play Off Shut-Outs, and earning one Ring as a Stanley Cup Champion with...... A goaltender who had played 88 Career Stanley Cup Play Off games, having notched 45 Career Stanley Cup Play Off Victories, while posting 10 Career Stanley Cup Play Off Shut-Outs, and earning one Ring as a Stanley Cup Champion. So, to clarify, this year you'd be replacing a goaltender who has played 106 Career Stanley Cup Play Off games, having notched 59 Career Stanley Cup Play Off Victories, while posting 13 Career Stanley Cup Play Off Shut-Outs, and earning TWO Rings as a Stanley Cup Champion..... With a goaltender who has.....(wait for it....) Six minutes worth of Stanley Cup Play Off experience, a GAA of 10.00, and a SVP of .667. But, other than that, I guess I can see where some folks might see the two situations as being similar. In respone to an earlier question regarding why Babcock chose to play Ozzie in back to back games..... The answer is: Babcock recognizes this, too, and understands that he has to get Chris Osgood ready for the Play Offs. Because a healthy, confident, on-top-of-his-Game Chris Osgood is the Wings best option this Post Season.

I've said it before, I'll say it again.... A large part of why this once great board is going downhill, fast. Soon it'll be left to the kiddie brigade. Shame.....

Gospel truth. As Mickey put it, you had to know that Osgood was thinking on the bench that it would be nice to have a FIVE GOAL LEAD after having faced only 3 shots, yourself.

Oz was terrible tonight. No excuses. I still have faith he'll turn it around, but he sure didn't make any progress toward that end tonight. Dear Oz: Kindly remove your head from your rear end. That is all. Thanks, Me

Bandwagon fans suck, don't they....??? <grin>

For the record, you're completely mistaken about the definition of a "bandwagon", and what makes a "bandwagon fan", as well. A "bandwagon" is "the latest thing", the "hot trend", the "popular pick". The "new kid on the block", as it were. A "bandwagon fan" is one who supports his/her Team only in time of success, and either ignores, abandons, or turns on them during "tough times". Sound familiar?

As I attempt to untangle that post..... Once again, the language barrier seems to have come into effect. It did not accuse anyone of being a Bandwagon fan as far as the Wings are concerned. I stated that anyone who wants to jump on the 'bandwagon' stating that "the numbers don't lie", is more than welcome. That would mean that anyone who truly believes that "the numbers don't lie", also truly believes that Ty Conklin is a better goaltender than Roberto Luongo, JS Giguere, Ryan Miller, Henrik Lundqvist, Marty Turdco, Evgeni Nabokov, et al. Tell me..... If the Play Offs started tomorrow, and the Wings had the option..... Who would YOU want in net? Roberto Luongo? Evgeni Nabokov? Marc Andre Fleury? Or Ty Conklin? Honestly..... Regardless of their play, THIS SEASON, that's quite simply a no-brainer.

Wrong again..... Through the month of December, when Osgood apparently first suffered the groin injury, he and Conklin were posting very similar stats. Or had you forgotten that? It wasn't until Osgood sat out for 7 straight games, and Conklin got SEVEN STRAIGHT STARTS, that Conks got in a groove and improved his stats. Again.... They need to get Osgood on a roll, as he, not Conklin, gives the Wings their best chance in the Post Season.

Then again..... You can always believe that the "numbers don't lie", and get firmly behind the notion that Ty Conklin is a much better goaltender, (in both SVP and GAA) than, J.S. Giguere, Roberto Luongo, Marty Turdco, Henrik Lundqvist, M.A. Fleury, Evgeni Nabakov and Miika Kiprusoff, to name a few. Jump right on that bandwagon, my friends. I'm sure TSN will be updating their player rankings shortly...

You're peeing against the wind here. There's not one single person here who has stated that Osgood has been even close to "good" this Season. Not one. What myself, and like-minded individuals, are arguing is the fact that Osgood is not solely to blame for this Teams woes. The Original Poster of this thread posits that all the Wings need to do in order improve their lot would be to replace Osgood with another goaltender....ANY goaltender, apparently. That is not the case. While Osgood has not played well this Season, he is far from the only, hell...even the MAIN....problem here. Again.... Osgood has not played well this Season. He knows it. The Team knows it. We know it. But you don't have to "believe in miracles" to believe that Oz will turn it around. All you have to do is look at History. If you, like some others, want to base your opinion on a "history" comprised of TWENTY SIX GAMES, again.....be my guest. I'll take the 16 year history, myself.

I understand completely. And I don't need to look at stats to do so. I actually watch the games, and the careers, of these players. But hey! I'm game..... According to NHL.com, Osgood has allowed 4 or 5 goals in 8 Games out of 25. According to NHL.com, Conklin has allowed 4 or 5 goals in 7 Games out of 24. These ARE the stats you've asked me to "check", are they not? If so.....well, then..... You're right. Now I understand. It's much clearer now, thank you. Regardless.... If you want to write off a Cup Winning goaltender after what you term to be 20 some odd "bad" games, (some 7 months after Winning the Cup, no less), while coming off a groin injury, and feel that it would be prudent to replace him with a career back up who's never been able to hold onto an NHL job, but has thus far outplayed the Cup Winning goaltender for an equal 20 some odd games, and has a total of six minutes of Play Off experience, then you go right ahead and be my guest. That's what Babcock did in 2005, with a BETTER back up goaltender in Manny Legace, and with a Red Wings Team which was playing STELLAR Defensive hockey in front of said better back up. That turned out well, as I recall. That was the last time I, or anyone else, saw Stevie skate off the ice in a Red Wings uniform. And that SUCKED, and should never have been. You can base your opinion on the past 50 Games this Season. I will base my opinion on the past 16 years of one career, and the past 5 of the other. I like my odds in backing the goaltender with the 16 year history as a Winner over the guy has a comparable number of Regular Season Victories as the other has Play Off Victories.

I, for one, never gave Osgood sole credit for his stats, nor his record, last Season. Nor did I ever stated that he was blameless for his stats this Season. He needs to play better. No doubt about it. All I've been stating is that goaltending is not the worst of this Teams problems right now. As someone posted earlier, "The players would know." Yes, they surely would. And none better than Nick Lidstrom, who claims the problem with the Wings right now is the Defense. Defense at root of Red Wings losing streak

Waaaaait a minute..... Didn't you just say, earlier in a different thread, that Conklin was "good enough" against the Caps, but that the Team was terrible? And did you not, on page 3 of this VERY thread, make the comment: So which is it? 4 or 5 goals, (as Conklin gave up to the Caps and the 'Yotes, respectively), is "brutal", or it's "good enough"? As you posted above: Which. Is. It? Make up your mind. Because you keep contradicting yourself, which is what I've been contending all along. Or is it, simply..... When it's Osgood, it's "brutal". But when it's Conklin, it's "good enough". Go back and read your very own words, because that is precisely what you've just said.

With patience...... His play has improved. Perhaps the numbers don't totally reflect it, but his play has improved. Again.... He was fantastic against Minnesota. He was fantastic against Dallas in the 6-1 Win. He was great in the OT Loss to Dallas, wherein the Dallas announcers stated that he should have gotten at least the 3rd Star of the Game for allowing FIVE goals, on 50 shots. When the opposing Team's announcers, (especially a huge rival Team), gives your goalie props after allowing FIVE goals, he had a good game. He was simply left hanging out to dry. He's the ONLY reason the Wings got a point out of that game, at all. He was very good in Anaheim. He didn't play poorly against San Jose, despite the score. The Wings, in general, played poorly. You can fault him for not "stealing" a game, because he didn't stop the two breakaways his Defense gave up less than 3 minutes apart in the 3rd period, but you can't pin that loss on him. He played well enough to Win in Columbus, (that which you laud Conklin with against the Caps, despite the two soft goals Conks gave up in that game), but his Teammates failed to show up. Unfortunately for the Wings - Nash did NOT fail to show up. He was pulled after allowing two PP goals, and one questionable goal, against Dallas. His play has improved. Period. The results are not yet showing in the almighty stat lines, but his play has improved. Again.... If you can't see that, there's no help for you.

You picked the wrong game to cite, Mike. I was at that Game, behind and to the left of Ozzie's net for the 1st and the 3rd. He was great in that Game. Not one of those goals can be laid at his feet, and he saved a few that he shouldn't have. Fail......epic fail.

Osgood has improved. Since he's come back from his injury, he's made a marked improvement. If you can't see that, there's no help for you.

<spray...spray.....spraysprayspray> Those were only examples...... And examples of his MOST RECENT Games, too. You know.... The games where both yourself, and Wingsallwin in particular, keep stating that he has made "no improvement".

LOL..... I rest my case. For the record, it doesn't have anything to do with "handling" anything. A reasonable person will only stay in a room full of the stench of flatulence for so long, before either looking for a solution to the smell, or outright leaving the room. It's not "running away" so much as it is a logical decision to not surround yourself with the constant smell of farts. And thanks again, but I've been here for quite some time. I think I'll stay. Hopefully someone around here's got some air freshener, or at least the authority to open a window every once in awhile.

How many soft goals did he allow against Minnesota? In the 6-1 Win against Dallas? In the 4-3 Win against Anaheim. Hyperbole. Nothing more. Doesn't take much time, and even less energy, to realize that Osgood's stats tumbled during that 11 game slide the Wings went on last February, when they were riddled with injuries from top to bottom. One game in particular which hurt Osgood's stats a ton was the game against Nashville, when he was pulled after allowing 2 goals on 4 shots, in about 9 minutes worth of play. His stats for that game alone were ~20.00 GAA and .250 SVP. Once again, the entire Team was slumping, and they were missing 2 of their top 4 Defenseman. To complain because his stats dipped from absolutely spectacular to merely damned good, and to call that an "alarming trend" is, in my opinion, simply more hyperbole.

It's an unfortunate fact that, sooner or later, quality posters will completely desert this board and leave it to the "fantasy hockey trade/NHL2K9" crowd, simply because they can't stand the frustration of dealing with the kiddies. And that will be a shame, because there was a time when this was the ultimate Wings message board, and Matt worked his ARSE off to get it there. Oh..... And thank you for your ever-so-gracious invitation to get the Hell out. Very hospitable of you, I must say.

It is when you realize that Osgood has not been playing badly since his return from injury, and that during this little "slump" the Wings are currently mired in, Conklin has played NO BETTER than Osgood. It is when you realize that you've got two months to get your STARTER on track, (because let's face it, Osgood IS the Wings Starter), or face going into the Play Offs to defend the Stanley Cup with a guy who has SIX MINUTES of Play Off experience, with a GAA of 10.71, and a SVP of .667. Going into the Post Season with Legace, (another career back up), was a huge mistake in 2005. It is no less a mistake this year, with Conklin. As the Stars have done with Turco, sooner or later, the Wings are going to have to get Oz ready for the Post Season.

Once again, since coming back from injury, Osgood has not played badly. Watch. The. Games. No wonder so many posters are leaving this site for more "mature" boards.... <sheesh>