Outsider

I'm with you, Ms_Hockey....

Gospel truth...

LOL. That's not even funny. Look, I'm about as far from being a Hasek fan as anyone on the face of the planet. That's a well established fact. But even I admit that the Wings played far better in front of Manny Legace in 2002 than they did in front of Hasek. They played far better in front of Legace than they did in front of Osgood in years prior. Are you suggesting that Manny Legace is a better goaltender than not only Chris Osgood, but Dominik Hasek, as well? And that the Wings played better in front of him because they "knew it" better than the fans? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Look down below the "TV Screen", (silly description, I know....), and find the little box which reads "The Reporters". You'll be able to load it from there.

With all due respect, there appears to be a bit of a language barrier here. Turco has improved, because Turco has PLAYED. He has played, and played, and played, UNTIL he got his Game back on track. He played even when he was losing, and losing BADLY. And STILL he played. And played, and played, and played. He played while the Stars watched their hopes of making the Play Off sprial dangerously close to the drain. And STILL he played. Osgood has not been given that opportunity. He's played roughly 50% of the Games, even when he was WINNING! See the difference? A vote of confidence was given to Turco by his Head Coach. "You're the guy. Get it fixed." He did. You're advocating the exact opposite for Osgood. You're advocating sitting a 2 time Stanley Cup Winner, one who's approaching Top 10 all time in NHL History for career Victories, in favor of a CAREER BACK UP. And simply because that back up has been "better" than the Cup Winner through FIFTY GAMES. How is that "logical"? If that is "logical" in your book, then as I stated earlier, the Wings need to trade Nick Lidstrom immediately, and replace him with Duncan Keith, or better yet, Dennis Wideman. Because both of those guys are clearly, without any doubt, "better" than Nicklas Lidstrom. Regardless of the fact that Lids is a 6 time Norris Trophy Winner, and 4 Time Stanley Cup Champion. Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? I think it is you who needs to realize the "truth".

It also turns out that the Wings usually play better in front of their backup goalies than they do in front of their starting goalies, and that expectations and standards for their backup goalies are considerably lower than those for their starting goalies. The key word here being "usually". This Season, that is most definitely not the case. There is much to complain about, and yet the brunt of the criticism is being piled on the goaltenders. Okay....on one goaltender. Yes, the criticism is deserved. But no more deserved than criticism for the shoddy defense, lack of effort, and laziness on display nearly every Game. Doesn't matter how well the goalies play. Either of them. They're not going to win games in the Post Season with the kind of TEAM WIDE effort they've displayed all Season long. Period. They're going to have to get everything back on track, from the goal on out. If they don't, it won't matter who they've got in net.

What difference does that make? There were Osgood threads on this board, (as well as other Wings boards), when he played in New York, and when he played in Saint Louis. There will be Osgood threads on this board, (as well as other Wings boards), long after he retires. Detroit fans hate their Starting goalies, and tend to love their back up goalies. Par for the course. <shrug>

That's an outright lie, mindfly. Either that, or English is not your first language, either. Listen to the clip. Michael Farber from SI claims that it "all comes down to goaltending", and that goaltending will be an issue "all through the play offs". Steve Simmons from Sun Media rebuts, stating that goaltending was supposed to be the Wings "issue" last post season, but Osgood came out okay. He goes on to say that the Wings are having a "bit of a Cup hangover", but that they'll pull through, and he "wouldn't tweak a thing", if he were in charge. Damien Cox states that he agrees completely with Simmons, and adds that a large part of the problem is that Nick Lidstrom is not having the dominating season he's accustomed to having, nor have the Wings made "that commitment" to overall Team Defense, and that those two issues are the main problem in Detroit. If you're going to post a link, with the video right there for everyone to watch for themselves, why would you flat out lie about the content of the link? Or were you perhaps hoping that no one had yet seen the link, nor would they click on it, and that everyone would simply take your word on it?

The more you post, the more you contradict yourself. You cite in an earlier post how Turco has improved his stats, and is now playing at a much higher level. Guess how THAT happened.... From day one, when Turco was playing FAR worse than Osgood, Tippett made it crystal clear that Turco was the guy and that: a) He was going to have to get his game back on track, even if it meant playing EVERY GAME, which he did. And b) The Team in front of him was going to have to play better, and support him until he DID get back on track, because they had no other choice. This was their guy, the guy who'd led them to the Conference Finals last Season, and there was absolute ZERO chance that they'd be going with an unproven goaltender in the Play Offs. Period. It's Turco, or it's nothing. Get used to it, and get BETTER. Both Turco, AND the Team. They did. Both Turco, and the Team got better. Viola. Osgood has not played badly his last few starts. Anyone who thinks so is looking at the numbers only. * He was fantastic his first game back against Minnesota, allowing 2 goal on 35 shots, for the Win. * He was fantastic his second game back against Dallas, allowing 1 goal on 23 shots, for the Win. * He was spectacular in the OT loss against Dallas, and the only reason the Wings got a point, stopping 45 of 50 shots. * He was great against Anaheim, snatching Victory from the hands of defeat when Perry had the Game on his stick with less than a minute to go, and Osgood outright robbed him. * He was bent over and raped by his own Teammates against San Jose, as his Teammates gave up two breakaways, less than 3 minutes apart, midway through the 3rd period in a tied game against the #1 Team in the League. * He was one of the few to show up against Columbus, as his Teammates dozed through that entire game, feeling sorry for themselves over the suspensions of Lids and Dats, and allowing Nash to do whatever he pleased. There wasn't a single goal he should have stopped in that game. Not one of them can be pinned on him. * He had no chance on the first two Power Play goals against Dallas, and looked bad on the third goal. But certainly no WORSE than Conklin did on the fourth goal. That's for damned sure. Now....let's look at Conklin's games during the same timeframe.... * He allowed 5 goals against Phoenix, (yes....Phoenix), on 26 shots, for a SVP of .808. * He allowed 1 goal on 11 shots against Dallas. And that one goal was on the only quality shot he faced, and was far sloppier than anything Osgood had given up in either that Game, or in any of his previous 6 Starts. * He gave up 4 goals on 27 shots against Washington, for a SVP of .852. As has been stated elsewhere: Green's goal was ugly. Ovechkin's first goal was FUGLY. For the love of God..... Go back and WATCH THE GAMES!!! Firstly, Conklin is NOT an NHL Starter. As a matter of fact, until last Season, he'd been unable to consistently hold down a job as an NHL back up. Secondly, Osgood is not playing as badly as everyone's making out. He has improved. The Team in front of him has gotten worse.....again. Thirdly, Conklin has played no better since this "slump" started than Osgood has. Go. Back. And. Watch. The. Games.

??????? Well, considering that he opened the Cup Finals with two consecutive SHUT OUTS, I'd say that the only way to go from there was down. <sheesh> After that "first loss" he posted a 2-1 Win, in Pittsburgh, allowing 1 goal on 23 shots, for a .957 SVP. That 1 goal, by the way, was a Power Play goal, scored by Marian Hossa, (yeah...that guy). It was the only goal Osgood allowed, in spite of the fact that the Pens had 6 PP's that night. Yeah. He sucked in that game after the "first loss", alright. The Wings lost Game 5 in Triple Overtime. Osgood allowed 4 goals in nearly 6 periods of hockey that night, for a GAA of 2.18. The Triple OT Winner? Once again.... On the Power Play. Game 6 in Pittsburgh, he allowed 2 goals on 22 shots. One to Evgeni Malkin, one to Marian Hossa. BOTH on the Power Play. I don't know, but I'm starting to see a pattern here..... Maybe it wasn't Osgood who "played worse" as the Finals wore on. Maybe it was the fact that his Teammates spent far too much time in the box as the Finals wore on. Saying that Osgood "played worse" as the Finals wore on is the epitome of grasping at straws. Try another tack. You should simply stick to the "Osgood hasn't played well this year". Because your "other" theory doesn't hold water.

With all due respect, that's an utterly ridiculous statement. As a matter of fact, it's nearly as ridiculous as it is inaccuate. Are you saying that a Team which allows 40 unscreened shots from the blue line is playing worse defense than a Team which gives up 15 clear cut breakaways? And that a goalie who gives up 2 goals on 40 unscreened shots from the blue line is playing better than a goalie who gives up 2 goals on 15 clear cut breakaways? Give your head a shake. Quality. Not quantity. Defense is intrinsically tied to Save Percentage.

There's a vast difference between "bashing" Osgood because he's having a crappy season, and advocating trading him and putting Ty Conklin? and Daniel Larsson in his place. A vast difference. By the way... Dennis Wideman is a +29, with 29 points, and makes $3.26M per year. Duncan Keith is a +26, with 29 points, and makes $1.6M per year. Nicklas Lidstrom is a +15, with 32 points, and makes a whopping $7.45M per year. It's quite obvious, based upon these stats, that the Wings need to jettison Lidstrom immediately, and replace him with one of the above mentioned players, who are clearly better than he, by quite a large margin. An d at half the price, too! Lids is clearly not pulling his weight around here any more.

Truer words were never spoken. Well.....except for betterREDthandead's avatar/sig, that is.

You should stop watching the stat lines on NHL.com, and start watching the Games.

You're not alone, egroen. I agree with everything you've posted. Everything but one. That last paragraph. I truly believe that Holland did not know about any "exception" to the rule. But I also believe that even if he HAD known, he wouldn't have played it any differently. There are no black eyes, here. And here's the thing..... How many, (and what types), of individuals were throwing Lids, (especially), and Dats under the bus. Not many, that I saw/heard. And only those who I considered to be of questionable character to begin with. And yes.....I'm including Sidney Crosby in that bunch. Abso-frickin'-lutely. The vast majority of the Players, the guys who matter, the guys who answer to the same standard..... Overwhelmingly stated that if two Players of the caliber of Nicklas Lidstrom and Pavel Datsyuk stated that they weren't well enough to attend, then that was all the "explanation" that they needed. The Players know. They recognize it when they see it. More than a few have commented, (recently), on certain "classless" and "embarassing" acts. There are, indeed, "black eyes" that have been earned in this situation. Nick and Dats are not the one's wearing 'em.

How 'bout simply "steadfast". As in.... "I don't care what other Teams, and other players, do. I'm not going crawling on my knees to that weasely little bastard with an 'Oh p-p-p-p-puhlease, Mr. Bettman, sir. Whatever can I do to appease you, so you won't drop your mighty hammer of authority on us?' And I'm sure as HELL not gonna ask a six time Norris Trophy winner, first ballot hall-of-famer, and a man who contributes more to this Game, and this League, in one Season than that crap weasel has ever dreamt of in his decade plus of DISservice to this League, to do it, either." As I said initially. If Nick and Pavs said they couldn't go, for whatever reason, that's good enough for me. Obviously, it was good enough for Holland, too. Good enough that he didn't feel compelled to stick his nose in Bettman's rear, trying to ream out a concession, (pun intended), for two Players he felt he didn't need to make any excuses for.

Hudler is as much a "star" as Mark friggin' Streit is. So's Dan Cleary. Either, hell....both, would have been awesome in the ASG. That doesn't mean the League wanted them, even if the Wings were to have offered them up.

The little crap weasel is incompetent, but he's not completely stupid. Even a troglodyte like Bettman has some sense of self preservation. He's gonna keep pushing, and sooner or later....

Yeah....it's all fun and games until someone losses an eye. (yes....I said "losses".....don't ask) Or until the poor little pseudo puck-bunnies get all offended because the mean, ole, nasty hockey players are saying "bad" things to them (allegedly). The Islanders slush sluts have been the center of two major "incidents", both involving, (how surprising....), players from the New York Ranger$. Apparently, the Ranger's players were abusive, hostile, and Henrik Lundqvist, (noted devient that he is reported to be), went so far as to spit, (yes....that's what she alleges), on one of the girls, causing her to break down in blubbering tears, (off the ice and down the tunnel, of course, and out of view of the eyes of any witnesses other than her fellow slush sluts). Her tears (allegedly) drew even more abuse and taunts from the Ranger$ bench. Huge media snafu ensues, wherein said Ranger$ players were heard to respond with: "Whaaaaat? We did what?" (Confusion all around....) Now, I'm an Isles fan, and I hate the Rag$ with a passion. Having said that, when the stories broke, on two separate occasions, I didn't believe a word of it. Not one word. Scantily clad babes have their place. On the ice, during a hockey game, shoveling snow or otherwise, is not one of those places. Not only is it totally unneccessary, it's also just asking for trouble. Eventually.

Who's to say that they didn't offer up a couple of alternates? Rumor has it that the League wanted Zata, Hossa and Rafalski - none of which were available, as they'd all made other plans. Who's to say that the Wings didn't say "Hey....Hudler would love to go! Or how 'bout Danny Cleary? They've both been awesome for us, both this Season, and last!" only to have the League respond with "Who? No thanks. Nobody outside Detroit knows who those guys are."

Too complicated. And too much like putting perfume on a pig. Bettman is not interested in making the ASG, the Game, or the League more attractive to anyone other than the Owners. Fark the fans. Fark the Players. Fark the Game. Nothing about our Game will get better until the little crap weasel is gone, and a real Hockey Man is put in his place. Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen. The Owners are exceedingly happy with Mr. Buttman, for the very reasons that we, as fans, are UNHAPPY with him.

Which begs the $173,000 question, Kira. How can the League "demand" that Lids and Dats both miss the game, while still requiring Mike Ilitch to pay them $91K and $82K, (respectively), for taking an involuntary day off . If the League wants them to sit for the Game, but not to forfeit any pay, shouldn't the League pay them for the day? And if they're not willing to do that, what right do they have to force Player personnel decisions on the Wings, without offering some cap relief in exchange, so that the Wings have some space to call up two Players to replace those the League has ordered not to play? And I don't need to hear Nick and Pavel's "side" to this. They decided they weren't well enough to attend the festivities. That's more than good enough for me. Should have been good enough for the League, too. And if the NHL had a better Commissioner, perhaps Players would get back that sense of pride they used to have when they were selected to play in the ASG, and there wouldn't be any risk of Players looking to "skip out" on the game in the first place. Bettman keeps creating problems to force solutions to the problems he's continually creating.

In answer: First thought: Dom's looking away due to a sense of self preservation. See the look on the face of the chick in background checking out the blonde's butt? Eyes tightly clenched, lips pursed, "Oh please, oh please, oh please let it end!" Second thought: They're not pantyhose. They appear to be tights, specifically designed to be worn over figure skates.

Wang has no interest in the Islanders. None. And there will be no better product on the ice than what there is right now. All he wants is the land.

Well then.... You're a fortunate individual, if your company takes care of all of the travel arrangements for your personal family vacations. Do they schedule your wifes manicures, and drive your kids to Little League, too? Because that is what we're talking about here. The "rule" was originally that any player not playing in the ASG would have to sit out either one game before, or one game after, the ASG weekend. It was later amended to be any player who did not show up for the festivities would have to sit out either one game before, or one game after, the ASG weekend. By the time this "amendment" was announced, it was rather too late for either Wings Player to do much of anything about it. Both Nick and Pavel have wives, and families. Sidney Crosby is 22 years old, and still lives at Mario Lemieux's house. Again, quite a bit easier for him to change his plans for the weekend, than for Nick Lidstrom to change travel plans for a family of 6 at the last moment. In fact, not even a fair comparison. Once again, much easier to make plans for a family of 6, on the fly, than it is to CHANGE THEM, completely, on the fly. Especially with young children. A flight to Hawaii, followed by 3-5 days of relaxation with the family, on the beach. Or.... A flight to Montreal, followed by three days of media scrums, photo ops, meetings with Sponsors, etc. Did you catch the comments from Lids and Ozzie after last years ASG? How it was non-stop, go-go-go, not a moment to take a breath before being wisked off to the next "event"? How the whole weekend was "fun", but exhausting?