Outsider

Howard didn't "do what he needed to do" against Anaheim, either. Guess what? He's getting another shot at it tonight in Los Angeles. Howard didn't "do what he needed to do" against Columbus on the 28th. Or against Chicago on the 23rd. Or against Dallas on the 19th. Or against Edmonton on the 3rd. The difference has been that when Howard hasn't "done what he needs to", he's gotten the all important opportunity to get right back in there and try again. Osgood hasn't had that opportunity since November 7th. That's the last time Osgood played consecutive Games. That was TWO MONTHS AGO. Your comparison doesn't hold water. Sorry. This is about more than playing the hot hand.

Wow. Just.....wow. Firstly, those who are referring to "luck" being against us, rather than spotty goaltending, were referring to Dom's performance in 2007, against the Ducks - NOT in 2008, against the Preds when "we won the Cup so no one thinks of it." Everyone except for you, that is. And if you think that Dom was simply on the "unfortunate end of some of the worst luck", OR that "no goalie would've made the save on the goals he let in", then you're not only ten times more blind than you accuse me of being, you're also certifiably insane. The first two goals against in Game 3 you could argue, although the first was "iffy". The second was a 2-on-1, so I'll agree that was a goal you don't automatically expect your goaltender to make. I'd point your attention to Suter's goal to tie it up at 3-3, with less than 5:00 to go in regulation was an epic fail. Arnott's goal about TEN SECONDS LATER? Even more epic. I remember looking at Babcock's face on the bench when they showed him after that goal. He was looking down the ice directly at Dom as though he wanted to kill him. In Game 4? You're high as a kite if you think that game had anything whatsoever to do with "unfortunate luck". The Hamhuis goal on the PP about 4-5 minutes in was legit. Legwand's goal, like, THIRTY SECONDS LATER? Terrible goal. Absolutely terrible. When Dats scored on the PP to make it 1-2, and then Dom lets that GARBAGE in by DeVries like TEN SECONDS later? Puhlease. That wasn't "unfortunate luck". Dom looked shell shocked from the time the Preds tied up Game 3, at 2-2. He never got back into the Game. To say otherwise is ridiculous. And you say I'm "blind"? Take a look in the mirror, buddy. Did you even watch that Series? Babcock didn't switch to Osgood, permanently, because Dom was a "bit off". He switched because Dom looked like a train wreck.

The bolded part is not true, interminded. Legace got many, many consecutive Starts in 2005-2006. That was excellent handling of the goaltender situation. If there's one thing Babs knows.... It's goalies. Also: The sure-fire future Hall-of-Famer, (he who could easily be the Starter for plenty of other Teams, but chooses to continue to accept back up positions), Ty Conklin, saw 7 consecutive Starts last Season. The rest of your post? I agree with 110%. **Edited to remove sarcastic overstatement**

Babcock has benched Osgood for absolutely no justifiable reason. I can see giving Howard MORE Starts because he's played well, but there is NO reason to keep Osgood on the bench completely for nearly two months. No logical reason, anyway. Babcock is playing games. He's got a degree in Sports Psychology, and he's paying head games. It's what he does. Babcock has decided that that Osgood will not play. And it has nothing to do with when Osgood is "ready" but more to do with when BABCOCK is "ready". Until then, he's going to ride Howard until the wheels fall off, and when they do, he'll toss Osgood out there, completely cold. Hopefully Chris can respond. If not, he'll be thrown to the wolves for something he had no control over, and something which is not remotely close to being his fault. And Babcock will be able to say: "I gave him his opportunity, and he blew it."

Well....let's take a look at that, shall we? Since Osgood re-signed with the Wings: 2005-2006 - 20-6-5 2006-2007 - 11-3-6 2007-2008 - 27-9-4 2008-2009 - 26-9-8 TERRIBLE numbers. Obviously. And, I daresay, had he more playing time this Season, he'd be posting much better numbers. HISTORY has proven that. Over. And over. And over again. Firstly: It's not an accurate observation. It's an opinion. You know what they say about opinions, don't you? Secondly: Don't confuse your inability to frame a cogent, logical, fact based argument with "There's no arguing with the guy". You keep attacking my viewpoint, but have yet to refute anything I've posted with any form of acumen. That's not my shortcoming. It's yours. And it's due to the fact that you're arguing from a flawed standpoint.

And this differs from Osgood's goal, AND the results he puts up, in precisely what way? Chris Osgood is the 10th most successful goaltender in NHL History, Zetts. He was being fitted for his second Stanley Cup Ring while Babcock was toiling away with the Spokane Chiefs of the WHL, a good five years before Mike ever even made it to the Show. Babcock is so busy worrying about the METHOD Osgood employs to get from Point A to Point B, that he's lost sight of the fact that Osgood puts up results whether he does it in Babcock's demanding manner or not. And that's a fact. He should be less concerned with demanding that Ozzie toe the line, "Do it my way, do it MY WAY!", and more concerned that Osgood continue to do it WHATEVER WAY he sees fit. 'Cause, you see..... Ozzie's way has earned him nearly 400 Career Victories, and a couple of those shiny diamond encrusted thingamajig's on his fingers. It's worked for him for SIXTEEN YEARS. And if you listen to Ken Holland.....the man who is the most successful GM of the modern era, AND the man who knows Osgood better than anyone else in Hockey.... He'll flat out TELL you that the reason that Osgood has been so successful is BECAUSE of his laid-back, relaxed attitude. He's stated it countless times before. Babcock is foolish to try to change a SUCCESSFUL formula, just because it's not exactly "how" he wants it done. He gets what he wants. And at the end of the day, in Pro Sports, it IS whether you Win or Lose, NOT how you Play the Game. And Babcock should know that.

Not for nothing, and I'm not saying this to be an ass or anything, but..... There is very little I "forget". I have to actively purge my memory, as a matter fact. Been that way since I was 11 or 12 years old. I'm terrible with names, oddly enough.....but everything else becomes kind of like a picture once my brain snaps a shot of it. If I want it gone, I have to actively "get rid" of it. It's why I remember quotes and plays from various players and games from years ago. It's also (part of what) I get paid to do. <shrug> Was that Off Topic enough, or what?

There is absolutely NO "good reason" to have benched Osgood more than just about any straight BACK UP in the League over the past two months. None. Absolutely NONE. Alex Auld played more Games than Osgood last month. Martin Biron and Vesa Toskala played more Games in December than Osgood played. Manny freakin' Legace played more Games in December than Osgood played. This stopped being about "riding the hot goalie" a long time ago. LONG before Osgood's comments in the Detroit News on December 31st. This is a "lesson". This is Babcock exerting his authority over the situation, much like he did with LEGACE in 2005. "I don't care what conventional wisdom, or history proves. I'm gonna do it MY way, come Hell or high water, and there's nothing you can do about it." It's a mind-game, pure and simple. And it's BS.

I'm gonna go ahead and agree with gcom on this one, too. Dom was pretty damned fantastic in Game 1, but he wasn't exactly lights out in Game 2. After Malts tied it up at 1-1 with that shorty, Dom gave up an ugly one like a minute later to put Anaheim back up by a goal. Then Nick on the PP for the 2-2 Tie, then Pavs 1:00 into the 3rd on the 5-on-3, for the 3-2 lead. That lasted all of 4 minutes as Dom "carried" the puck into the net on top of his body, to bring it back to all even at 3-3. Niedermayer's OT Game Winner was downright ugly. Dom came back with a terrific performance in Game 3 with a shut out, but looked pretty bad again in Game 4. Perry's goal less than 2:00 in was fugly. Ric Jackman's goal was equally bad. As was Selanne's to make it 3-1. The Wings battled back with hard working, gritty goals to make it 3-3 heading into the 3rd, when Getzlaf fired it from above he right circle and caught Dom guessing wrong. All in all, he gave up 4 goals on 22 shots that night. Series tied 2-2. Game 5 wasn't that bad a performance, statistically speaking, and you could argue that the GTG by Niedermayer came on a bulls*** call, AND a fantastic tip.....but Selanne's GW in OT was a very sad panda type of goal. Dom was flailing around on the ice while the Finnish Flash picked his corner, top shelf. Game 6? Are you honestly gonna characterize that as a "good" Game from Hasek? Com on now....Nied's shorty was bad enough, but Dom was flat on his back, doing snow angels on the ice for an ETERNITY, on THREE of the four goals that night. He wasn't good. Period. You need to re-watch that Series, man....

Exactly.... Not to mention the fact that Osgood is not playing as badly as everyone is making it out to be, for cripes sake.

I'm suggesting that Osgood isn't as "off his Game" as you'd like to think he is. He's not at Play Off Mode Level, but he's not nearly as bad as you'd like to make him out to be, either. And when Howard faced the 'Hawks, he did it when they were coming in on the second night of back-to-back Games, on the road. Who had they faced the night before? The Sharks. They fired nearly 50 shots at Nabokov, while holding San Jose to FOURTEEN. They were exhausted. And they still fired three pucks out of 31 past Howard. You figure it out.

It's even tougher to play better when you're not playing. At all.

Are you being serious? Against Chicago, Osgood wasn't good. No one is disputing that. But, Osgood was facing the #1 Seed in the NHL, on the second night of back-to-backs, after having been BENCHED for most of TWO MONTHS prior to being thrown into that Game.The first two goals were ugly. The last one was TERRIBLE. He was fantastic in the 3rd Period, however. Last night Howard was less than "shakey", and HE is lucky it wasn't 5-0, himself. The first goal was terrible. The second goal was terrible. And the third goal wasn't anything to write home about. You also fail to mention all of the times he was bailed out by his teammates last night. And HE was facing one of the worst Teams in the League, on a night where the Team in front of him was well rested, and he had plenty of ice-time to warm him up. But tell me.....just out of curiosity: When a goaltender gives up a shorty, on a crap rebound, 5 minutes into the first, and then a second goal two minutes later, does that only "deflate" the Team when the name on the back of the Goaltenders jersey is OSGOOD? Because I didn't hear Babcock make any mention of "obviously those two quick goals killed us, and we didn't play with any energy for the rest of the Game." Osgood faced off against a vastly superior Chicago Team with the 'Hawks on a 7-2 streak. Howard faced the 25th place Ducks with the Ducks on a 3-6 streak. Bit of a difference in the level of competition there, big guy.

Exactly. And don't kid yourself. Not for one second. Osgood was "in the dog house" long before he made those comments to McCosky on December 31st. He's played a total of six Games in the nearly TWO MONTHS since he's come back from the flu. With little to no justification for that benching stemming from his actual play in those six Games. He played a total of THREE Games in the entire month of December. Note that the "doghouse" treatment was in full force and effect before Ozzie popped off to McCosky on New Years Eve. He'd been benched for almost two whole months prior. It was Babcock who started the yapping in the Press about how Osgood had to "be better". How he had to "just battle hard in practice", in order to get an opportunity. Only to have that lie proved when he benched Osgood over and over again regardless of his performance. Chris finally starting yapping back. While it may not have been the best decision to do it, he's justified in doing so. Like I said earlier. It's personal. And not only is that disrespectful, it's childish and counterproductive.

Osgood isn't paid to respect his boss. He's paid to put up results. But even if you argue that that is what Osgood is paid to do, then that's a two way street, Carman. Osgood's (lack of) ice-time is not indicative of the results he's put up thus far this Season. And his results won't get any better unless he gets more ice time. His Win/Loss ratio, his GAA, and his SVP cannot get any better from the bench. It's a statistical impossibility. Furthermore, while I agree that Osgood does owe Babcock his respect as his Coach, I'd argue that Babcock owes Osgood some respect for knowing his position better than a man who's never played it, (nor any other at the NHL Level), to the extent that he's racked up nearly 400 Career Victories, AND a couple of Stanley Cup Rings, ONE of which happens to be a perfect match for the one on Mike Babcock's finger. A ring which wouldn't BE THERE if not for Chris Osgood. I would also suggest that the fact that Osgood finally opened his yap about the matter isn't due to lack of respect. It's due to the fact that he's been "spanked" all Season long, when there's really been little reason for it. His frustration is justifiable. It's not Ozzie who's being disrespectful. It's Babcock.

The Game against Chicago which earned Ozzie a spot on the bench for the past 7 games wasn't much worse than Howard's Game against the Ducks last night, as far as performance goes. Both the first and second goals last night were terrible. And anyone who disputes that fact is insane. The difference? Osgood faced the #1 seeded Blackhawks on the road on the second night of back-to-backs. Howard faced the 25th seeded Ducks. This is no longer about playing the hot goalie. This is about Babcock showing Osgood who's boss.

Kings have been interesting all Season. They're absolutely fantastic one night, absolutely dreadful the next. They're young. <shrug>

Not only that, BlueMonk.... Take a look at Columbus in particular. While they rank pretty low in the Offensive category....take a real CLOSE look at where they ranked AT THE TIME when Howard faced them. In the 10 Games leading up to the 1st time Howard faced them, they scored 14 goals. That's an average of 1.4 GF per Game. Howard faced them, and put up "GREAT!" numbers when they were busy making EVERY goaltender in the League look like Vezina Candidates. In the four Games SINCE that 1st Game Howard faced them? A total of FOUR goals.

Except for the fact that Dom was literally fantastic from that point on that year. He went 7-1-1 in December, 5-1 in January, 2-1-1 in February, 6-1 in March, and 2-1 in April. He was absolutely fantastic down the stretch. So the fact of the matter is..... He GOT going. And he was the hot hand going into the Post Season. It wasn't Osgood who was the "hot hand" going into the 1st Round. It was Dom. What Season are you remembering? As a matter of fact, While Dom went 22-5-1 down the stretch, Osgood went on a major slump heading into the Play Offs. He only went 6-6-2 from the time Dom got back into the net, (and got going REALLY hot), to the end of the Season. So, in fact, your assertion that "maybe Babcock learned from his mistake that year." is ridiculous. He DID ride the hot hand. As he did with Legace in 2005. Oops. Both times. The two times he bucked the trend and rode the "cold" goaltender, over the "hot" goaltender.....once when he replaced Dom with Osgood, and once when he STARTED with Osgood over the much "hotter" Conklin..... Resulted in a Stanley Cup, and a trip to Game 7 of the SCF's. Looks like your logic is slightly off. By the way.....It wasn't a physical problem with Dom against Nashville. It was mental. All mental. And even had it been physical? Dom was in his 40's, and an unconventional goaltender who's game was BASED ON his reflexes, with zero basis in fundamental goaltending. He had also suffered from major injuries, (the type which keep a goaltender out for months at a time), for many years before the 2008 Play Offs. Ozzie is, even now, half a decade younger than Hasek was then....and has always been a calm, "quiet" goaltender who doesn't really move around much. He's also been blessed with very few serious injuries. As Jimmy Bedard stated last year..... "There's a LOT of horse left in Chris Osgood."

Nice catch, Doc. Thanks.

Interesting question. Osgood has only faced three Teams which are currently not in the Play Offs. The Season Opener against St. Louis. A loss. The clusterfrack against Toronto. Another loss. The 1-2 OT loss to the Panthers. Other than that? He's faced all Play Off Teams. With Wins against: San Jose - Best Team in the League - by a score of 2-1 in the Shoot Out. Chicago - 3rd Best Team in the League - by a score of 3-2 Washington - 5th Best Team in the League - by a score of 3-2 Calgary - 5th Best Team in the West - by a score of 3-1 Boston - 5th Best Team in the East - by a score of 2-0 Nashville - 6th Seed in the West - by a score of 3-2 Los Angeles - 8th Seed in the West - by a score of 5-2 He's also earned points against the following Play Off Teams: Colorado Phoenix New Jersey He's not playing as badly as everybody here would like to claim he is. And whether you like it, or not..... He IS facing tougher competition. Consistently.

I'll admit to being one of those "select few". And I stand by that statement. I don't know how you interpreted that as "Howard can't beat over .500 Teams." I never stated that. Not once. After tonight's Win, half of Howards Wins have come from Teams which are currently positioned to make the Play Offs, if they started today. That includes Wins against Montreal, and the New York Rangers, both of which I consider to be "sub-par" Teams. The other Wins came two against Phoenix, (two very, very good Wins, with excellent performances by Howard), two against Vancouver, and one against Colorado. I wouldn't go fitting the kid for his Cup Ring just yet, if I were you. Once again. I stand by my statements. Just as I stood by my statements regarding Legace. And Conklin. Even in the face of the hordes of "told you so!!!!" fans who declared both of them the next Wings saviour in goal, based on a few Regular Season Wins.

I know how you feel....but the Win STILL feels good. They all looked great tonight. AND.....we gained two points and leapfrogged Dallas into 9th place. I'll take it. And yes, for those who are set to gloat.... Howard DID look particularly stellar tonight. He definitely stood out. Excellent Game from him. Excellent Game.

***damned double post*** And, as per usual.... All the Teams the Wings needed to lose......Win. Phooey.

And yes....I will say it. This was a very, very good Game from Howard. That still doesn't mean that Osgood shouldn't get a few Games in here, soon.