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Fair enough. You would rather ride Howard UNTIL he starts slumping, and then throw a completely cold Osgood in and HOPE he can find his best Game....immediately. I would rather continue to give Howard the majority of the starts, but give Osgood a chance to get him Game ready, so that when Howard does start to slump, we've got at least a partially warmed up goaltender going in. You're right, we'll agree to disagree. And the answer to your second question has already been answered as well. I don't think we'd be paying much, if any, of a price at all by putting Ozzie in net.

Firstly, I don't consider Osgood to be whining. He's pissed. Secondly, had you actually read the thread, you'd have noted my EARLIER POST, wherein I stated that although I agree with what Osgood had to say, I disagree with the fact that he popped off about it in the Press, and that I further think that it is definitely not the best way to go about rectifying the situation. You did read the thread, right? Or are you simply a s***-stirrer, too?

And, once again.....because you quite obviously have NOT been paying the least bit of attention whatsoever..... I never, at any time, under any circumstance, nor in any way advocated PULLING Howard. It is QUITE possible to play BOTH goaltenders without BENCHING either of them. You don't have to BENCH Howard in order to give Osgood MORE ice time. There were 12 Games in October. Babcock stated that he gave Osgood the majority of the Starts so that Howard could get his feet wet in his first NHL Season. There were 14 Games in November. Osgood got 6 of them, (he missed 3 Games due to the flu), and Howard got 8 of them. See how that worked out? BOTH goaltenders got ice time, NEITHER was "benched". There were 14 Games in December. Osgood got THREE of them, Howard got 11 of them. ONE goalie was benched, the other got plenty of ice time. Now, heading into January, and the toughest part of the schedule, everyone wants Osgood to be "on top of his Game". If they want him there, (and they should, because they're going to need him there), he's going to have to get more than THREE Games in a MONTH. That doesn't mean that you have to PULL Howard. You can play them BOTH. For the last time.... WHAT PART of this is unclear to you?

Well, well, well.... Someone else who "remembers" that period of time accurately. How refreshing. You weren't the only one saying it, my friend. Trust me. It's just that the hordes shouted everyone with that opinion down as "Osgood slappies". Babs is a good Coach. No doubt. Like gcom, I too believe his biggest weakness has been his goalie management. Most probably forget, (what a surprise....NOT), but when he first got here from Anaheim one of the first things he stated was that he didn't like to switch back and forth between goalies, that he liked to "ride" one goalie as the Starter all Season long, as he had Giguere in Anaheim. That's how he justified naming Legace the Starter. He was proven wrong. Dead wrong. He's done a complete 180° since that time, maybe as a result of being burned so badly by his choice to stick with Legace come Hell or high water. Regardless.....he's an excellent Coach. He knows how to motivate his Players, and which buttons to push in order to get the most out of them.

You're right, gcom. I guess you can chalk it up to the aforementioned "courage of conviction". Some people call it "Character". It's rather in short supply these days, unfortunately. Too many people prefer to just be s***-stirrers.

Ozzie has proven already this Season, even with his "cold" performance, that he can "still be" a "decent" goaltender. You've stated it yourself. If you're only going to throw comments out there to stir s*** up, when you don't have any real belief in what you're actually posting, then why bother? Is it one of those "negative attention is better than no attention at all" situations? At least have the courage to stand by your convictions, rather than blowing hither an yon with every shift in the breeze.

LOL....that wasn't the argument I was referring to. Or is your attention span really that short. I was referring to the argument that no one expects everyone else on the Team to be in TOP form with so few Games under their belts. But that you, and others, somehow expect Osgood to be. Refute it.

Wrong. Chris Osgood is not now, has never been, and will never BE, an elite goaltender. He can't "still be" something he never was.

That's totally unfair, Carman. You're just assuming that Chris can cook.

Not that it matters, td, but it's how I emote in text format. Some people use the infernal, ridiculous little smilie bastards....known as EMOTicons. I categorically, on principle, refuse to use them. Therefore I "roll my eyes", "rant", looked "confused", and laugh my ASS off at some people.....With formatted text. Just a different manner of posting, really. Oh....and the "random" capitalization isn't "random". League. Team. Game. Win. Play Offs. Post Season. Season. Cup. Coach. Management. Organization. Captain. They appear "random" to you. They're not, I assure you.

Refute the argument, td.

Jeeeebus H. Christos on a pogo stick..... Once again....ad nauseum.....becuase you, and most others, simply do NOT appear to be "getting it"..... Howard's level of "hotness" has come against some terrible Teams, during the EASIEST portion of this Season's schedule. You, and others, are ASSUMING that that "hotness" will continue unchecked, and with the same "excellent' results of SIX AND FIVE, against some of the BEST Teams in the League. Once again.... His "excellent", "hot" streak netted a record of SIX AND FIVE. Regardless of how much of that was entirely HIS fault, it is what it is. Did he steal any? No. He played "well enough" to keep his Team in Games.....against primarily botter feeder Teams. Will he be able to do the same against the Chicago's and San Jose's and Pittsburgh's of the League? We don't know. But what we DO know is this: His "excellent' "hot" performance against Chicago resulted in THREE GOALS on 31 shots against, when his Team was the rested Team, and the 'Hawks were the tired Team, and with plenty of ice time under his belt to get him warmed up for that Game. Osgood's "crappy" performance aganist Chicago resulted in THREE GOALS on THIRTY FIVE shots against, when his Team was the TIRED Team, and the 'Hawks were the rested Team, and with ZERO ice time under his belt, coming in cold off the bench. Do we know if Howard, on top of his Game, can "steal" Games against the better/best Teams in the League? Nope. No clue. But past history, even the very recent past history, points toward "probably not" at this point in his career. Do we know that Osgood, on top of HIS Game, can "steal" Games against the better/best Teams in the League? Yep. You BETCHA he can. Can and HAS. So....I'd suggest we get the bastard IN there, and GET him "on top of his Game". Because that's where the Wings NEED him to be. And he ain't gonna GET there in freakin' practice, NOR on the bench. And Osgood's "cold" streak isn't as bad as you'd like to make it out to be. Osgood's "cold streak" has netted a total of 3 of a possible 6 points from some of the BETTER/BEST Teams in the League, all while coming OFF the bench, COLD. Get him warmed up, and he'll be better! What part of that is so mysteriously incomprehensible to some of you folks?

Or, as I, (and a few others), have been stating, it could have something to do with this: Babcock regarding Osgood being benched - From MLive "Sometimes when things are taken away from you that you really value, and that's competing......." Or when Babs was recently quoted as saying that Osgood needs to be "at his best", and concluded the statement with '.....no one likes to watch the other guy playing." Again....jabjab.....pokepoke. Just as with Conklin last year. Now...HERE'S an interesting Quote from Babcock: From MLive From the 2007-2008 Season, the year Osgood was an "All-Star",: Now..... Bear in mind that this was during a period of time where Osgood was posting a record of 9-1, with a GAA of 1.70, and a SVP of .935. Wow. Interesting that, although Osgood was performing like a Vezina Candidate, Babcock still felt the "need", (his words), to get Dom "back in there" and "rolling". For the record, Dom got the next FOUR Starts after that Game. Regardless of how well Osgood was playing.

Refute it, please.

Mmmmm.....Nope. Gonna haveta go 'head and disagree with that. Firstly, go back through the Game Logs last Season. Both Osgood's Games and Conklin's Games. The Wings typically, (definitely not always, but typically), allowed fewer shots in 1st periods, more shots in the 2nd, and then opened it up in the 3rd. As a matter of fact, it appears as though the 2nd period is where they really allowed the most shots against per game. That's regardless of whether is was Osgood or Conklin in net. Secondly, this: This is not the past, where the Wings had the Offensive fire-power to "score a few in the first 2" OR to "tighten it up in the 3rd to kill the opposing Team". They've got 200+ goals from "the past" either on Injured Reserve, OR playing elsewhere. They've also got both Kronwall and Ericsson on IR, and are trying to "kill" the other Team Defensively with a Lidstrom who is obviously not himself, with Lebs getting more ice time, and with Meech and Janik on the blue-line. What has worked "in the past" is not necessarily what will work now. It been relatively successful against Teams like Columbus, St. Louis, and the like. It's been a crap shoot against the better Teams in the League.

Hmmm.....I'm not sure it's about skill level with Ville. Alexei Yashin was very skilled, too. Still is, I guess..... Takes more than skill. There are more important things than skill. Much more important.

He "earned" another Start after the Nashville Game. He didn't get it. Had he gotten it, he would have faced Phoenix. Had he won that Game, he might have "earned" a shot at Tampa Bay. As his record against the Lightning is 17-0, I'd say there's a good chance he would've Won that Game. Had he done so, might have "earned" the Start against Dallas. Considering Osgood's very good record against Dallas, and Turco's s***ty record against Detroit, and the fact that that Game had "Win" written all over it had Howard NOT crapped the bed that night, I'd say there's a pretty good chance that Oz could've Won that Game, too. That may have "earned" him the Start against Chicago. And while he DID eventually get that Start, had he been "rewarded" for his great Game against Nashville, (as you insist Babcock is wont to do with those who "earn" playing time by a good performance), he might have come into that Chicago Game with 4 additional Games under his belt, and on a potential 4 Game Winning streak, and with his confidence riding high. Rather than being thrown in there, absolutely cold, on the second night of back-to-back Games.

I'm with Doc. I'd like to see your take on the "10 times", too.

Hmmm.....I don't recall Babcock stating that he wanted Osgood to "get better". His exact words were....."the best you can be." From MLive Ayup.....those were his words, alright....(from the link....).... "It’s about being the best you can be. He knows all this" Yes. Ozzie DOES know all this. Which is exactly what he said in the article on the first page. He also knows that the only way to GET to "the best he can be" is to PLAY. Hmmmm.....I wonder why so many fans don't lament early season "sluggishness" from their entire Team. Why the popular argument is always "It's early. Wait until they've had a chance to gel, and get warmed up. By mid-season they'll be fine." Could it be that they recognize that it's not really realistic to expect these guys to be THE BEST THEY CAN BE until they've got a few Games under their belts? Nah! Impossible. And before you go stating that it IS mid-Season, and Osgood STILL is not at his best..... Kindly remember that for Osgood, he hasn't SEEN any Games since the beginning of the Season. He's played in NINE Games in the past TWO MONTHS. Expecting him to be "the best he can be" based on nothing more than PRACTICE, is both ridiculous, and unrealistic. That's what he is saying. And I agree with him.

Here I come again..... You mean, he's capable of holding the Blue Jackets, the Blues, and the Rangers to one goal....Excellent. But those are pretty terrible Teams, with some "issues" either scoring goals, and/or holding leads. So what about Phoenix. I seem to recall that the Wings scored TWICE in the first 10 minutes of the 1st Period, and the 'Yotes once toward the end of the same period. Then the Wings scored again about two minutes into the 2nd. And the 'Yotes scored in the closing seconds of that same period. No need to "hold them in". They never relinquished the lead. What about Dallas? Edmonton? Anaheim? You also might want to take a second gander at some of those Games, Shady. In many of them....not all....but many...... When Howard is in net, the Wings get BETTER defensively as the Game wears on, locking it down and allowing fewer shots on net in the later periods when they're either trying to protect the lead, or trying to keep a deficit from getting any larger. When Osgood is in net, they tend to keep it tight early on, and then open it up later in the Game, trusting that Oz will hold the fort while they go balls out trying to score. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Bear in mind that that's a LOT more dangerous chance to take when you're facing San Jose, or Nashville, or New Jersey than it is against a Team like Columbus, or Anaheim, or even Colorado who, (despite their good record), happen to have a terrible 3rd Period goal differential, allowing 16 more goals than they score in the 3rd. For reference? Their goal differential in the 1st Period is 39/32. In the 2nd Period it's 50/35. It's 33/49 in the 3rd. The one real knock on the Avs this Season is that their young Team has had a real problem either holding the lead, or taking the lead, in the 3rd Period. On Thursday night, they were able to tie it up but, (as has been typical for them all year), they were unable to keep their opponent from outscoring them in the 3rd.

There. Fixed it for ya. Since his bout with the flu, Osgood has been given FIVE Starts in the last 26 Games. He hasn't "faded into the background". He's been firmly PLACED there, and given little to no real opportunity to work his way back to the forefront.

No. We don't remember the same thing here. YOU remember inaccurately. When Osgood was signed, Babcock stated that there would be a "goalie competition" between he and Legace for the #1 spot, because it didn't matter to him what Osgood had done in the past, nor that Legace had always been a back up. Osgood was not injured anywhere near the time whent the Play Offs started. He suffered a groin injury in Training Camp. Legace came in and posted a 10-1 record for the month of October, (an NHL record). Based on that strong start, Babcock declared Legace "our guy", while Osgood was down in Grand Rapids in the second Game of his 3 Game conditioning stint, and before Ozzie had had a chance to so much as touch NHL ice that year. So much for "competition. Legace played well that Season, including down the stretch....BUT..... "Cracks" started to show in his mental make-up toward the stretch run. He started sounding all panicky and hysterical. Literally. That's when cooler heads tried to convince Babcock that perhaps, just perhaps, he might want to go with the veteran, CUP WINNING goaltender for the Post Season....at least to start, anyway. If Ozzie faltered, he could always turn to Legace. No. He was having none of it. Legace was "our guy", and he was "cautiously optimistic" that he'd be more than capable of getting the job done. Again, it's not that you "could be" wrong. You are wrong. You also appear to have blocked out the complete scenario leading up to Legace getting the Start against Nashville in 2004 You DO remember the whole "three headed goalie monster" from that Season, don't you? Hasek coming out of retirement and announcing that he wanted to come back to the Wings? CuJo's "ankle injury" and the necessary surgery, which led to the Wings being unable to trade him once Dom DID come back? The Wings waiving Cujo.....then shuttling him down to the AHL in rather humiliating fashion? Dom's subsequent injury, and his announcement after 14 Games that he was "unable to play"? The Wings calling CuJo back up in a panic, and him driving up from GR with his goalie equipment stuffed in the back of a rental car? The "poison" in the lockerroom when he got there, with Hasek injured, but still hanging around the lockerroom and with the Team every day? The fact that Legace had to be placed BETWEEN them in the lockerroom because the tension was so high? And finally.... JOSEPH'S ANKLE INJURY.....You know....the one which occurred with about 5 or so games left in the Regular Season....FORCING Legace into the Starting role against Nashville? You don't remember? That's okay. I do. So does USA Today.....follow the linky, please.... Linky linky Luongo returned to the net from his cracked rib about midway through the 2nd Period against St. Louis, in relief of Raycroft, who gave up a bucketful of goals. Luongo gave up 2 goals on 17 shots in his return, for and .882 SVP (against the bottom feeder Blues). His first Start after his return from injury was against Detroit. He played well, giving up 2 goal on 28 shots, but lost 1-3. Coincidentally.....Luongo was given FOUR STRAIGHT STARTS before he came up with his spectacular shut out. Gee....I guess the Canucks figured he needed a little ICE TIME after coming back from injury in order to get his Game back. What a novel concept...... And you're expecting him to GET TO "his normal standards" from the bench. Right? He's been "okay", he's been "good enough". You're RIGHT. Which means that there's absolutely no justification in outright benching him, giving him no opportunity to improve, and get to "his normal standards". I'm not ignoring you, Shady. See....I've given your post a nearly "epic" response. So I'll conclude with this..... I never stated that the 6-5 record WAS Howard's "fault". I've only been stating that that particular record, which was accumulated while Howard was playing "excellent" against MOSTLY TERRIBLE TEAMS. And I'm wondering.....how......when.....and why......most people here seem to believe that his "excellent" play against primarily bottom feeders is going to garner "if he keeps playing like this....the Wings will win" results against some of the BEST Teams coming up on the schedule. Wow! He held the BLUE JACKETS to one goal or less? Two games in a row? Are you kidding me? And he did the same against the St. Louis Blues for an entire game? And the New York Rangers? AND.....He shut out the Tampa Bay Lightning? Why, then, that there is proof positive that he'll be equally successful against the Caps. And the Sharks. And the Pens. And the 'Hawks. We need Osgood back. And we need him back, on TOP of his Game. Because as "excellent" as you think Howard has been playing against the Teams on the December schedule, and regardless of WHERE the "fault" lies for the 6-5 record..... The simple fact remains that his very best effort DID net nothing better than a 6-5 record, against the softest portion of this Season's schedule. They're going to have to be better than that in January....and beyond. All of them. And as I stated earlier.... An "on top of his Game" Chris Osgood blows an "on top of his Game" Jimmy Howard clear out of the Arena....at least at THIS stage in their respective careers. You don't have to bench Howard, who has FULLY earned playing time, in an effort to get Osgood MORE of the playing time he both needs, AND deserves.

Yet another who doesn't like my posting style. I'm gonna develop a complex.... <okay....maybe not>

Those are good questions. All of them. Firstly, I see the Wings playing differently. More tensed up. And definitely concentrating more on Defense than on Offense. Last night was the first night in awhile I've seen them actually look like they were interested in scoring goals, rather than in keeping the OTHER TEAM from scoring goals. It was good to see. I'm hoping to see more of it. They looked pretty confident as the Game wore on. I'm also hoping that we'll get some Players back....soon.....very soon!.....and that Offense won't be so hard to come by. Secondly.....I'm not saying that there IS anything more he can do. He's done what's been asked of him. I never stated that he hasn't. He's playing well enough to keep his Team in Games, but he hasn't stolen any. What I'm saying is that there is, on the bench, a goaltender we KNOW is capable of stealing Games. And of stealing Games against the best Teams in the League. And with the upcoming schedule, we need to GET HIM into some Games. I never advocated benching Howard. He's done absolutely NOTHING to warrant being benched. He's done what they've asked of him. He deserves to continue getting playing time. By the same token....Osgood has done nothing to warrant being benched, EITHER. He's not playing at his best, but he's ALSO not playing badly! And HE deserves to get some playing time, as well. Especially considering the fact that they are going to need him. And Rivalred is correct. Goaltending is NOT this Teams problem.....whether it be Howard OR Osgood.

And once again, you fail to grasp the entire gist of my argument. I don't know if it's because you don't agree with it, or if you simply can't understand what I'm trying to point out. Here....I'll try to break it down....as succinctly as possible..... I don't feel that Osgood is "struggling". He's not playing at his best, but he's not playing poorly, either. Period. Howard is "doing well" against primarily TERRIBLE TEAMS. There's no guarantee that his "average" 6-5 "results" will translate, let alone IMPROVE, against TOUGHER competition, and with a tighter schedule. Howard AT HIS BEST, and against a WEAK SCHEDULE, has netted that remarkable 6-5 record. For the third time....what in BLUE HELL makes you think those "average" results are going to improve as the level of opposition improves? And improves.....Dramatically. And that's what I'm arguing. Osgood, if given more Starts, WILL improve. And an Osgood, at HIS best, blows Jimmy Howard, at HIS best, clear out of the Arena. Every day of the week. And twice on Sunday.