Outsider

Osgood is signed through the end of the 2010-2011 Season. Of course he is. You can tell just by his performance in his first 30'ish NHL Games. Why....just look at Theodore. And Raycroft. And Lehtonen. And Toskala. And LeClaire. And Hiller. And Mason.....

That is where you and I disagree, chris......vehemently. Howard playing "like he is now" was good enough to go 6-5 against the softest part of the schedule, and against some of the worst Teams in the League. As I previously stated, he racked up 4 of those 6 Wins against the Rangers, the Ducks, the Jackets, and the Lightning. The only Wins he had against anything even COMPARABLE to what's coming up on the schedule were against Phoenix and Colorado. And let's face it....as good as YOU and zack think Phoenix and Colorado are..... They're not exactly San Jose. Or Washington. Or Pittsburgh. Or Chicago. As a matter of fact, the only Team comparable to any of THOSE Teams that Howard has faced has been.....Chicago. On the second night of back-to-back Games for Chicago With Chicago having faced San Jose the night before. After a night where the 'Hawks exhausted themselves taking 47 shots against Nabokov, while holding the Sharks to FOURTEEN shots against Huet. At Home. With a rested Wings Team in front of him. Motivated to avenge a whitewashing from the previous meeting. On a night where his Team outshot, and outplayed the 'Hawks for most of the evening. The result? That "great" performance earned another 0-3 LOSS. Same as the last time the Wings faced off against Chicago. I'll ask again.....considering that Howard's "great" performances were "great" enough to earn a SIX AND FIVE record against primarily CRAPPY Teams..... What in BLUE HELL makes you think that him "playing like he's playing" is going to translate into success against BETTER Teams, during a TOUGHER schedule.....spent mostly on the road?

Whoa.....my "bashing" of Legace is completely justified and, if you've been around these parts long enough - absolutely NOTHING new from me. Your argument that it was the Team who lost that Round is not quite accurate. It may not have been ALL goaltending....but.... Unlike the OTHER instances you mention, 99-00 and 00-01, the loss to Edmonton was the ONLY time in recent history that goaltending was the PRIMARY reason for an early Round exit for the Wings. And it was. You'd better believe it was. And for you to sit there and deny that fact is just simply dishonest. Legace lost his freakin' mind once the Play Offs began. You could see it. And the Oil could smell it. Babcock came right out and said it, himself. Holland came right out and said it. LEGACE came right out and said it. As for "bashing" Hasek......well.... As puckloo39, (waves to loo!!!!) can attest, I am NOT the biggest Hasek fan, but..... The man is a Legend. And one of the best goaltenders to ever play the Game. At any Level. In Any League. In any Era. Hell....he's one of the best OVERALL PLAYERS to ever play the Game. Having said that..... The man was also bat-s*** crazy when it came to coming out of the net, whether to play the puck, or otherwise. And while some of the results were legendary, (see the hit on Gaborik....), some of them were ALSO legendary FAILS. It was one of the few foibles in his Game. Roy suffered similarly.

Once again.....for the umpteenth time..... What in blue hell makes you think that Howard's "excellent" 6-5 December against primarily BAD Teams is going to translate into "win(s) now" against the likes of the Teams coming up on the schedule for this month? You HAVE seen the schedule, haven't you? Again....and again....and again..... Osgood is going to HAVE TO get some games in, in order to get up to speed. It's unavoidable. He cannot be expected to sit for the majority of the Season, having seen only 3 games in the past MONTH PLUS, and then come in and be "outstanding" against the Teams that are coming up in January. And that's what he's going to have to be. Babs knows it. Chris knows it. We all know it. Take a real, objective, honest look at Jimmy's performances against the better Teams he's faced. And then compare those "better Teams" to the Teams coming up on the schedule. And then tell me that a comparable performance from Mr. Howard is likely to net the same result against the opponents coming up, as it did against the opponents he faced last month.

I am happy that Howard is playing well. But to overstate that he's playing "so well" is deceptive. He's playing well. Nothing more. Nothing less. But I AM happy for that fact. Now.....Why can't I JUST be happy about that? Good question. Simple answer. For the exact same reason why I couldn't be coaxed, nor drop kicked, nor dragged - kicking and screaming - onto the Legace bandwagon in 2005-2006. Not even when everyone and their cousin was chirping about how they always knew that Legace had it in him....that all he needed was "a shot". Hell....If they could Win it all with Freakin' OSGOOD, then SURELY Legace could fulfill the promise of nothing more than "just" making the saves he had to make. Right? Right? Except that, (as I shouted from the rooftops ALL that Season - and was roundly BLASTED for it!), Legace wasn't ever given a "shot" for a reason. A very good and obvious reason. That reason became glaringly obvious down the stretch, and especially once the Post Season began. To those of us, (and there were a few....quite a few....), who saw it coming from OCTOBER of 2005.....It wasn't exactly a surprise. Babcock was "warned". He was "advised". And by some very astute hockey minds who happened to be quite familiar with Mr. Legace, and his mental make-up. He ignored the advice, and chose to put his "stamp" on the 2005-2006 Detroit Red Wings, in his first year as Head Coach. It was a "stamp", alright. A stamp of death. And the very last time we all saw the indomitable, (and, coincidentally, the very astute), Steve Yzerman skate off the ice with that "C" emblazoned so fittingly over his heart..... Was in needless, pointlesss, totally avoidable.....IGNOMINIOUS DEFEAT. Why? WHY? Because Babcock had that "It's not about what you've done. It's about 'what have you done for me lately'?" attitude regarding his goaltending. It's NOT about "what have you done for me lately." Players at this level attain, and MAINTAIN, a certain level of success for a reason. Otherwise we wouldn't see such "spectacular!", "amazing!", "Why....he's the next ELITE goalie!" as Cechmanek, and Turek, and Esche, and Lalime, and Emery, and Biron, and Raycroft, and Ward, and Toskala, and LeClaire, and Hiller, and.....shall I go on.....? Shall I?..... .....burn out, and then WASH OUT, as we've seen so many young, promising, UNTESTED goaltenders. ANY goaltender can have a good run. Christ....Bryan Boucher holds the NHL record for consecutive shut-out minutes in NHL History. Bryan Freakin' Boucher, for the love of God. And while YOU, and everyone else, poo-poo! the FACT that with very RARE exceptions, Howard has built up his Vezina quality rookie Season against primarily bottom feeders, and completely ignore that fact that while he DID get the Win against a good Colorado Team last night, that he also was HARDLY a factor in that Win..... And then think that his success against the CBS's, and the STL's, and the MON's and the ANA's is somehow an indication of how well he'll play against Chicago. Or Washington. Or Pittsburgh. You continue to fail to recognize the significance of the fact that of Howard's 22 Starts, he's only seen 7 Games which could be considered to be against "good" Teams. He holds a record of 3 Wins and 4 Losses in those contests. And of those who could be considered "very good", (namely Chicago.....), he looked completely out of his depth. I know Colorado is "3rd best in the West". Yeah. Colorado is "3rd best" by virtue of the fact that it leads the Northwest Division. They've got fewer points than Phoenix, (STILL Howard's biggest challenge, and his best performance to date), and they're one point ahead of 5th place Calgary with Calgary having TWO Games in hand, and one point ahead of 6th place Nashville with Nashville having one Game in hand. Colorado went 8-6 in the month of December, and are clinging to that "3rd best in the West" status based on their amazing 10-2-2 October. But you keep believing that the quality of the opponents he's facing has absolutely nothing to do with his level of success. And you keep believing that his December record of 6-5, (with FOUR of those six Victories coming against the Power House Rangers, Ducks, Lightning, and Blue Jackets), is going to improve, or even hold up, against THIS MONTHS schedule of Teams.....some "very good" Teams like.... The Kings, and the 'Hawks, and the Caps, and the Sharks, and the Pens....with a few " good" Teams like Phoenix, and Nashville, and the "middling" Dallas Team....MOST of which are on the road, by the way.... You keep thinking that there's enough parity in the League that a steady diet, and a BARELY .500 RECORD, against the easiest portion of this Season's schedule, is somehow, by some miracle, going to translate into a comparable level of success against what is arguably the TOUGHEST portion of this Season's schedule. Just as with last Season....when Conklin was playing so well....(much better than Howard is playing now....despite the "stat lines", and against MUCH tougher competition, to boot), Babcock knew....he knew it then......as he knows it now..... That his BEST hope lies with Chris Osgood. But, again.....you keep right on believing that Howard's 6-5 December record against primarily crappy Teams, is gonna translate into success against a spate of the BEST Teams in the League. Just as you probably thought that Legace had "proven", throughout the entire Regular Season, that he was "ready", and "capable", of stopping only the shots that he needed to stop, that he'd proven that he was "more than capable" of leading a Play Off charge, because all he was really expected to do was to "not lose" games. Everyone keeps talking about how "excellent" Howard has been. How he's been at HIS personal best, while Osgood has not. Guess what? That "excellence", that "personal best", has resulted in a SIX and FIVE record.....during the softest portion of the schedule. And as much as you refuse to see it.....BABCOCK sees it...... That Howard's "personal best" is not good enough to carry them through, and position them for the Post Season. Babcock knows.....just as he KNEW last Season.....that what he needs, what the Team needs, what it's going to take is more than Howard's "personal best", (good as that has been, for a rookie). What it's going to take is OSGOOD'S "personal best". It's in EVERYONE'S best interest to get Osgood BACK on TOP of his Game. ASAP. Because Howard's "excellent" play against primarily bottom feeders isn't gonna cut it in Washington. Or in San Jose. Or in Pittsburgh. Just as it didn't cut it in Chicago. THAT is why I can't "just" be happy that Howard is playing well enough to post a 6-5 record against the softest portion of the Season schedule, while the BEST hope for this Team sits on the bench because Howard's been playing "well enough" to go 6-5 in December.

Awwww....what a cute little smilie! And this post is almost as constructive, and very nearly as substantive, as your "you can bold every word in every post you make and it won't change the fact that osgood is brutal". When is Winter Recess over again?

What part of the argument is unclear to you? There's no reason to "bench" Howard, as in "You only get 2 or 3 games a month, Jimmy." There's also no reason to KEEP Osgood on the bench, as in "You only get 2 or 3 games a month, Chris." There were 14 Games in November. Osgood, (even with his bout with the flu), got 6 of the 14. Howard got 8. Neither goaltender was benched, and both had a modicum of success and ample playing time, with neither rotting away on the bench. There were also 14 Games in December. Osgood got 3 of the 14. Howard got 11. One goaltender was benched, and only one got ample playing time, with the other rotting away on the bench. Oh....wait....you want Osgood to "play better" before he gets to play more games. Right? And since he didn't play any better against Columbus on the 26th, he hasn't "earned" another opportunity. Oh....wait....he didn't play that game.....how was he supposed to "play better"? He ALSO didn't play any better against Columbus on the 28th, same scenario. Right? Oh....yeah.....he didn't play in THAT game, either. Rather difficult to "play better" in that game, too. And, typically, Osgood definitely made absolutely NO improvement against Colorado. Therefore, he hasn't "earned" an opportunity to "play better". Except, of course, for the fact that he had ZERO chance to show ANY LEVEL of improvement.....because he DIDN'T PLAY. Gee....Osgood has shown a distinct lack of progress and improvement in games he HASN'T played in this Season. And since he hasn't improved in the games he HASN'T played in, then I guess he hasn't earned the opportunity to "play better" in all of the games he's NOT PLAYING IN. Again.....this is not exactly rocket surgery here. It IS possible to NOT bench Howard, while concurrently not KEEPING Osgood on the bench. Your ability to think logically is air tight.

I'm not interested in arguing with you either, loo. That's because I wholeheartedly agree with everything you've said. You're right. Oz does need to play better. And for the record, I do not believe, (nor have I ever), that Osgood is an "elite" goaltender. He's not. What he is, is "clutch". And he's clutch not because of his skill, or his talent, but because of his Heart. And he will play better. I have full confidence in that assertion. But he's going to have to play, period, in order to "play better". That's the point that's being missed here. And that's the point that he, personally, addressed in the article. He's not playing. And yet people are expecting him to "play better". When he gets the opportunity to play, he WILL "play better". But until he GETS the opportunity, expecting him to "earn" the opportunity to "play better" - by PLAYING BETTER - is assinine, circular thinking. Again....that's the point HE is making, and that's the point that I have been making. Everyone keeps waiting for him to "show up", but he's not been given the opportunity to "show up." Oh...and Happy New Year.

I agree with the bolded part, loo. And that's why I think it's a mistake to push Osgood to this level of frustration. You know the guy. You're not exactly a fan of the man, but even you know for a fact that he's the consummate Team guy, and doesn't complain about anything. If he's frustrated to the point where he's popping off in the Press, then he's on the ragged edge. He's not "whining".....he's pissy.....just as he was pissy last Season toward the Play Offs when everyone kept hammering him with questions about how he was possibly going to be "good enough" once the Post Season started, when he'd been so God Awful all Season long. He listened to the same exact questions, and gave the same exact answers, for MONTHS, before he finally got nasty toward the end of the Season. And when the Play Offs started, he had a terrible attitude with the Press. Right before Game 1 against Columbus he was asked, point blank, if it bothered him that most Hockey pundits were giving Columbus the decided edge in goal due to Steve Mason. Osgood's response? "Who's doing that? Who?" he literally snapped. He paused....waiting for an answer. None came. He slashed his hand through the air like a knife and spat out "Go. Next question." He wasn't "whining" then. He's not whining now. He's extremely frustrated. And he's right on the edge of "pissed off". There's a fine line being walked here. Babcock wants him fired up. He does NOT want him wound too tight. And that, (I think), is the point that gcom was trying to make earlier in this thread.

I fully expected Howard to Start against Phoenix on Saturday. You should have, too. He played well enough to Win against Colorado, and there's really no need to bench HIM. I never stated that there was. Also, Osgood, (throughout his career), has been absolutely dreadful against Phoenix. His record and personal stats against the 'Yotes are some of the worst he's posted.....going back to their days in the 'Peg. All I've been saying, from the get-go, is that there's no reason to KEEP Ozzie on the bench. He's not playing terribly. If he was, then there might be some justification. He's not. So there's not. "And you carp on "the length of time this has gone on has been obscene." As has been previously stated....the "length this has gone on" isn't something that Osgood has had much control over. He HASN'T BEEN PLAYING. If he's not playing in any Games, then he's not going to get any better. Or are you expecting his stats and performance to improve.....From the bench? Apparently so. Just as many here expected last Season, when Conklin was the Saviour. That's all Osgood stated in the article. That's all that those of us who don't think Osgood should be taken out behind the wood-shed and beaten have been saying. If he's NOT PLAYING, he's not going to SHOW any improvement. The argument that "he needs to earn Starts" and "he needs to improve before he can get Starts" is assinine. He can't "earn" anything unless he plays a game. He hasn't. He's played three Games in the past month. ONE of which was a very good game, against a good Team, on the Road, on the second night of back-to-backs.. What did it "earn" him? Nothing. He was back on the bench after that Game for another WEEK. And then was thrown in cold, with a tired Team in front of him, against one of the Top Teams in the League, on the road, on the second night of back-to-backs. Gee....that scenario sounds familiar. What are you expecting? How much better are you expecting his stats to get from the bench? How many "good games" are you expecting him to string together out of.... ZERO opportunities? The next game Osgood Starts will be approximate TWO WEEKS from his last Start. And if he shows any rust whatsoever, he'll be thrown back on the bench for another two weeks or so. This might not be such a touchy situation if the FEW and far-between Starts he was getting were in situations where he actually had a fighting chance in HELL to shake off a bit of well-earned rust and not have to worry about every single mistake being a disaster. You know....perhaps a Game against COLUMBUS....or St. Louis....or Tampa Bay......or Anaheim. Nope. He gets the Devils. And Nashville, on the second night of b-2-b's. And Chicago, on the second night of b-2-b's. And he's expected to be, (as Babcock stated), "outstanding". As for your assertion that it's "disgusting" that Osgood has to be "prodded" to play well? Babcock doesn't WANT him "playing well". Please pay attention. Osgood IS "playing well". What Babcock has said, specifically, is that he wants Osgood at "the best he can be." And in case you've just recently started watching the Wings, and Osgood in particular..... Ozzie is not the most skilled goaltender in the League. Never has been. Never will be. It's not his "skill" or his "talent" that has gotten him to where he is today. It's his "Heart". It's his competitive fire. Without that, he'd be nothing more than an undersized, moderately skilled, goaltender. He'd be able to "play well", but that's about it. But that's a far, far cry from Osgood "at his best". When Osgood IS "at his best", he's one of the best goaltenders in the NHL. And the fact of the matter remains that if you want Osgood "at his best", you've got to poke at his ego, and stoke his competitive fire, and bring out the bulldog in him. THAT is when he rises above the very real and unavoidable physical limitations that are a reality with this particular goaltender, and becomes the goaltender that has led his Team to the Stanley Cup Finals two years in a row, with Smythe worthy performances in both. And so that is precisely what Babcock is doing.

So far. So far. And with very little opportunity to improve on it. But, as Babcock himself states: Osgood's "got all the tools and he knows the ropes. He'll dig in and find a way. He'll get his opportunity, and he'll run with it." And when he does, he'll smile graciously and thank the fans for "always being behind me".

That's patently ridiculous. Mediocre goaltenders, regardless of what Team they play for, don't post 400 Career Wins. They don't enjoy nearly 20 year NHL careers. They don't crack the Top 10 at their position in NHL History. And they don't Win Stanley Cups. Twice. And your opening comment is precisely the reason why Osgood has had an "attitude" at times. I'd say a well-deserved attitude. The man is sitting at #10 all-time, the most successful Wings goaltender in the modern era. Among the most successful goaltenders in the entire League in ALL eras, and coming off of two straight Smythe worthy performances in the Post Season.... And all he's heard, his entire TOP TEN Career, a Career which has spanned a decade and a half, from the "experts" who sit at home, having never taken a single shot, nor made a single save, in an NHL Game, and from the geniuses in the Media who are so brilliant that many of them are now IN the Media because they've been FIRED from Managment and Coaching positions, is that he's nothing more than "lucky". That he's s***, and that without the Team in front of him, he'd probably be a telemarketer back home in Alberta. If you'd accomplished in your chosen field HALF of what Osgood has accomplished in HIS chosen field, a field where only the very best in the world even make the cut to begin with, and had to listen every day to a bunch of know-nothing 'tards talking about how YOU don't know DICK about how to do your job, and how a plethora of has-beens, and never-will bes, would be TEN TIMES better at YOUR job than YOU are.....a bunch of ignoramuses who've done nothing but constantly s*** on everything you've accomplished by calling it "luck"..... I'd wager YOU would have an attitude too. Rather an "I've been doing this awhile, and with a fair amount of success. If you're so damned sure you know what it takes, step on up. If not? Sit down, STFU, and let me do my job." type of attitude. And again....you'd be perfectly justified. Funny you should mention Vernon. Both in 2008 and in 2009, the Press actually WENT TO Mike Vernon, and ASKED him what he thought of Osgood, and what he'd made of himself, and what he'd accomplished in his career. Vernie told the Press that "maybe now" people would start to give Osgood the "credit he deserves". He further stated that a bunch of fan and media types get all caught up in the numbers, the stats - especially as far as Osgood is concerned - but that GOALTENDERS, (like himself), recognize what really matters. And that Osgood is one thing: A Winner. Pure and simple. He's a Winner. Go back through a list of Osgood's teammates on every Team he's ever played on. Without exception, the consensus from everyone from his present day Wings teammates, to Adrian Aucoin, to Mike Peca, to Kenny Jonsson, to Keith Tkachuck, to Doug Weight, to Al MacInnis....... ALL of them have stated that until they actually PLAYED with the guy, they never fully appreciated what he brings to a Team, nor ever realized how LITTLE credit Osgood gets. So go ahead and sit there and talk about how Osgood has been little more than "mediocre" for most of his career, and then whine about how he has an "attitude" when his crappy Top 10 career is trampled on by a bunch of "fans" who honestly believe that Ty Freakin' Conklin is somehow, in any way, and in some wacked out alternate universe, his equal in skill, heart, and ability......but (like Legace).....just hasn't ever had the chance to put up 400 ******* Wins in the NHL. I wonder where this totally unjustified "attitude" of Osgood's stems from? Certainly can't be from the lofty perch of his REAL accomplishments, rather than the "could have beens" of goaltenders who are so clearly his betters...... After all.....what would a mediocre Two Time Cup Champ with 400 Career NHL Victories know about tending goal? Here's an interesting little fact: Chris Osgood has had ONE JOB, his entire life. He's a goaltender. That's all he's ever been. That's the only job he's ever held. For sixteen successful years, in the best League in the World. That's not "luck", buddy.

Happy New Year, everyone. And Go, Wings! GO!

You're ridiculous. Both of you. Howard's five hole was so bad earlier this year that people were calling it the "35 hole". Again....see the Games against St. Louis, Edmonton and Dallas if you doubt it. When did Howard start to shake of that tendency? When he got REGULAR PLAYING TIME. Something that Osgood has NOT had the benefit of. Meanwhile, the goals that are going in against Howard are goals where he's giving up fat rebounds right into the slot, where he's caught swimming on his belly in the crease, and where he's caught out of position when he over-commits and can't get back into position in time. He's ALSO being saved by some quick thinking and terrific plays by his Defense, and his forwards. (Think Helm and Rafalski). How many wide open nets did Colorado have tonight? Plenty. I counted four, where they either mis-fired, passed, or did absolutely NOTHING with the opportunity at all. Again....as Mick stated....over and over......"Colorado hasn't mounted much of anything tonight." In the upcoming schedule....do you think well rested, Offensively minded Teams like San Jose, Los Angeles, Washington, Nashville and Pittsburgh aren't going to exploit those weaknesses? You'd better believe they will. And Babcock knows it. As he was last year.....even with Conklin playing at "Saviour" level.....Babcock was, literally, desperate to get Osgood back on his Game. Babcock's no dummy. He knows he can only play with fire for so long.

Thank you, Doc. A least someone gets it. Also.....Your point about the Brodeur thread on HFB is spot on. Howard is posting better stats than Osgood. He's also posting better stats than Luongo. And Fleury. And Nabokov. And Lundqvist. Once again....he's also facing weaker competition than any of those goaltenders.....and that INCLUDES his THREE WHOLE GAMES against some of the better Teams in the League. Some interesting comments from an MLive column/article this evening: Linky linky.... From Draper: "You looked at November and December and you were kind of excited about the schedule,'' Kris Draper said......] Why were they "excited" about the November and December schedule? Because it was filled with mostly WEAK TEAMS, giving them the best opportunity to Win? As Drapes continues.... "Certainly, we would have liked to have padded the win column a little bit more' What was that, Drapes? "Padded" the Win column? What do you mean by "padded"? Could it be that even the WINGS PLAYERS acknowledge that the schedule for the past two months has been a "cupcake" filled with Games that they should, by all rights, have a GOOD CHANCE to Win? Because they didn't face a whole lot of TOUGH competition? Hmmm. Interesting. And Rafalski: "In the last little while we haven't done a good job of getting the points we should'' Stuart said. I'm sorry, Brad....are you saying that the Wings "should" have been racking up more points while they had the opportunity, when the schedule was light, and the Wings were primarily at Home, against Teams they "should" have beaten? Wow. That's interesting, too. As I stated..... Babcock has had,( thus far), the luxury of riding Howard because the Wings schedule and slate of opponents has allowed him to. Babcock has now begun "poking" Osgood in earnest because he knows that the "creampuff" schedule is DONE, and what's coming up is going to be a lot tougher row to hoe. Will Osgood respond? I hope so. Babcock does, too. Just as he "hoped" LAST Season, when Conklin was the Saviour......but when Babcock acknowledged that, (as good as Conks had been), what they REALLY, TRULY needed was...... A top-of-his-Game Chris Osgood. Because as "good" as you think Howard has been, he hasn't been good enough to carry the Team through the upcoming schedule. He's been "good enough" to carry them through a schedule full of games against Columbus, and Anaheim, and Dallas, and Edmonton, while facing three "good" Teams in the past MONTH. If Osgood doesn't respond, then Howard WILL continue to get the Starts. But, (as with Conklin last Season.....as I ARGUED ALL last Season), if Howard IS the one getting the Starts..... It will be LESS because of what Howard IS doing, and more because of what Osgood is NOT doing. Don't kid yourselves. When Babcock said ".....if Ozzie had had a good night the other night, he'd be starting....", he was serious. Babs wants Ozzie on TOP of his Game. He needs Ozzie on TOP of his Game. And, (I'm fully confident), he'll GET an Ozzie on TOP of his Game. But he's gonna have to play him in order to get it. Next month? The schedule gets tougher. Lots tougher.

Osgood has never been a true candidate for Team Canada. Ever. They're far too deep, and Osgood has NO International experience. Besides, alot of the Internation Tourney game is mental mind games, and Oz doesn't have any form of intimidation factor whatsoever.

I'm going to break this down really sloooooowwwwwwly for you, since you seem to be struggling with the gist of my argument. In watching the Games, I don't believe that he IS "playing better" than Osgood. At least, NOT to an extent sufficient to keep Osgood on the bench until such time as Babcock decides to throw him out there, absolutely cold, against a Team like Chicago. And then to expect, (in Babcock's words).....an "outstanding" performance. Howard is posting better stats. He's getting comparable results, (Wins and Points-wise). But he's ALSO facing WEAKER COMPETITION. Habitually. And yes....that includes tonight, when a tired Avs Team brought not much of ANYTHING against a Wings Team which was in full control of this Game from puck drop to final horn. What was it Mickey stated? "Colorado just hasn't mounted much of anything tonight." Mick is right. Colorado had nothing, and Howard didn't have much to do in this Win. He was much more impressive against Phoenix, in my opinion. Similar to those games where the Wings have LOST to Atlanta, and Edmonton, and St. Louis, and Columbus.....it wasn't so much that those goaltenders were that much better, it's that the Wings didn't bring much to challenge them with. These are the types of Games that Howard is playing. I'd say that Phoenix has been the exception. He was very good against Phoenix.

Conversely....and rather interestingly..... Osgood haters are all too eager to jump onto the coattails of any goaltender at all, no matter how mediocre, be it Legace, Conklin, and now the untested rookie, Howard.... In the desperate hope that they will finally, finally, after all of these long, terrible, tortuous years..... Have a goaltender who can finally unseat Osgood. Permanently. There's not a goaltender who passed through Detroit, however briefly, who hasn't been "vastly superior" to Osgood. Yeah. Conklin is an OBVIOUS Starter. That's the general consensus. And that's why he left DETROIT....to go to ST LOUIS.....But, as he has done for his entire career...."chose" to take the back up job there. Uh huh. Reality is that Conklin has never been, is not now, nor will ever be, a Starter. For any Team. Period. Just as I stated, ad nauseum, last Season....when so many "haters" were suddenly on the Conklin bandwagon, in the vain hope that Conks would finally be "the One" to rescue them from Chris Osgood. And that's the reason why Ty was not even offered a contract. Because Wings management and coaching recognized that he is a career back up, (just as Legace before him), and that in the long run......it would be better to bring Howard up and groom him, and take your chances that Howard has a higher career ceiling. Another one bites the dust. The Quest continues.

Perhaps you can use the work f*** a few more times in each of your posts. It adds a bit of spice., and I'm sure the other children on the board get as giddy as you do when they read naughty words. The reason that Osgood did not play tonight is because, as has been previously discussed, HOWARD IS NOT PLAYING BADLY. I never stated that he was. He's just not playing as WELL as you'd like to think he is. And when the Wings faced a rested Chicago Team, on the road, on the second night of back-to-backs, just LAST WEEK.... It was OSGOOD who got the call. Why? Because, as Babcock stated at the time, "we knew our goaltending was going to have to be outstanding". THAT is why Osgood got the Start. He dinkered it up. And now Babcock will make him work TWICE as hard for his Starts. Period. Howard got the call against Phoenix, and played well. I think, based upon that Game, he got the start tonight.....against a "good" Team.... ON THE SECOND NIGHT OF BACK-TO-BACK GAMES. Tell me how much of a factor Howard was tonight. He didn't need to be. The Wings controlled this Game from start to finish. And if not for a bone-headed play on the first goal, the result would have been even better for him. Once again....I never stated that Howard wasn't playing well. I only stated that he's not playing well enough to keep Osgood on the bench with the exception of the very rare occasion when a "contender" comes up on the schedule. And yes....I think if the Wings WERE to face Washington "today", it would be OSGOOD who would get the call. That's been the pattern all Season long.

LOL. Yes. I remember that one, too. There were also a number of instances where Dom took a little "tap" or "bump", and crumpled to the ice like he'd been shot with a howitzer, or run over by a freight train..... The Refs/Linesman, taking note of the obvious dive, would ignore him completely, and an opposing player would fire the puck into the empty net while Dom was rolling around on the ice "in pain." Edit: A perfect example of the "dive then writhe while scored upon" is included in this clip:

<sigh> It's not related to playing the puck. It's related to "coming out of the net", and was in response to Rivalred's assertion that "Ahh, there were plenty of times he was caught out of the net and was scored upon." I believe the Game was against the Blues. And I think, (I think......), it was Keith Tkachuck who "bumped" into Dom in the crease. Dom literally skates OUT of the crease, by about 5 or so feet, and is standing there, off to the side of the net, arguing face-to-face with Chunky, while the play is in the Detroit zone. I can't remember who it was, but the opposing player just fires it into the, (literally), completely vacated net with a "You're kidding me, aren't you?" type of look, while Hully turns to Hasek with a "Whaaaat?" expression. It was quite funny to watch, actually. Reading about it probably doesn't do it justice.

I remember one game in particular, during his first Season with Detroit, he's standing there, arguing with an opposing Player while the puck is cycling around in his end of the ice, and someone just shoots it into the net. Hully was standing right there in front of him with a "What are you doing?" type of look on his face. Classic. I wish I could remember which game it was. I have it on tape, somewhere.

That's not true. Dom had plenty of "D'oh!" moments playing the puck.

Which is why most experts are predicting that they'll fade in the second half of the Season. Hopefully the Wings will SURGE in the second half. Tonight was a good start.

Now that's just crazy talk. Hasek was a NUT JOB when he came out to play the puck, whether behind the net or otherwise. Howard is MUCH better in that regard. WORLDS better.