Yzerman191

While I disagree with retiring Gretzky's number league wide, he's almost in a league of his own. You absolutely cannot compare guys like Iginla or Modano to Gretzky or you come off looking foolish, like you did just now. You even compare Gretzky to Yzerman, who many don't even think was the best player on his team during his era (Lidstrom). You might be able to make a case for Lemieux, Howe, or Orr being comparable to Gretzky, but it's so difficult to compare players from different eras; the only one from the same era, Lemieux, probably has the weakest case for it. Almost 900 goals (nearly 100 goals more than a guy playing 300 more games than him), over 2800 points, almost two points per game in both the playoffs and regular season. He re-wrote the record book, and I'm not sure that can be overrated. I can't believe people get on Gretzky for being protected by an enforcer rather than doing the job himself. A guy with that much skill has no reason to be fighting; he's the last guy you want in the box. More often than not, Gretzky's job on the PK would be to nab a shorthanded goal. For the record, I really dislike Gretzky; maybe it's the way the league babied him. But honestly, I don't think we'll be seeing another player with a career like Gretzky's ever again, even with the league moving towards more scoring.

I'm not sure the kid is worth the contract offers he's going to get. Sure, he's got a big body, and he's one of the fastest skaters in the league. He's also capable of putting up 40+ points, and on a terrible Panthers team at that. Oh, and he's 25 years old. This all sounds good, right? Yeah, every other team in the league thinks so too. Brian Campbell, the older, slower, smaller offensive defenseman (who doesn't play all that much defense) had some GM throw 8M a year at him. I'll gladly eat crow, but no way in the world the 'Wings can afford this guy (trade-wise or cap-wise).

I'll agree that Kronwall's defense isn't spectacular. However, I think we can all agree that he's having a bad season. His defensive play isn't usually as bad as it has been at some points over the season, and usually he plays slightly more physical than he has thus far. His 3M contract isn't nearly as bad as some of you make it out to be; there's a reason (same with Flip) Holland signed him for that price. And even though he hasn't met expectations this year, which part of our defense has? Lidstrom has seemed mortal, Rafalski has clearly lost a step, Stuart has had absolutely brutal games, and Lebda has made his typical mistakes. That leaves Lilja and Chelios as the only two players on the back end that have actually impressed me this year. The argument to trade Flip isn't about offense. Obviously, had it not been for our offensive talent we'd be battling it out with Chicago for the central division. Trading Flip is all about gaining cap space, and maybe some players essential to our Cup run in return for a contract that just doesn't make sense from the Red Wing's point of view. Also, I'm going to stir the pot a little. Say Osgood doesn't improve as the deadline nears. Conklin doesn't exactly have great playoff statistics, so what is Holland to do? Should Edmonton fall out of the running for a playoff spot, does Holland give Roloson a closer look? He's performed pretty well thus far this season, and his playoff stats aren't bad.

Why is everybody so keen to trade Kronner? Last year in the playoffs he showed his potential; he was a one man wrecking machine. Aside from that, he's not a terrible deal for 3M a season. Probably not a future Norris winner, but he can hit when he feels like it and is capable of putting up 40+ points. Flip, on the other hand, just doesn't seem to fit the team's needs. He absolutely needs to be put in our top 6, because he's not going to develop on the third line. However, I'm not sure there's a spot for him there. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Holmstrom, Cleary, Hudler, and Franzen/Hossa make up a pretty good top six for next year, and everybody but Cleary are going to stay top six. Also, Cleary has a NTC, whereas Flip doesn't, and a 3M third liner is not very efficient. I'd love to see them pick up Neil for a scrub/low pick. Also, Antropov wouldn't be a bad pick up, but I fear he'd cost too much, and we don't have much that appeals to Burke (let's face it, he doesn't exactly like players like Flip). Basically, all I'd like to see them do is establish a REAL grind line (not Maltby-Draper-Kopecky), and play with a little emotion. Zettberg-Datsyuk-Homer Franzen-Hudler-Hossa Leino-Flip-Sammy Neil-Draper-Cleary That would be quite the playoff lineup... I was actually having trouble fitting all of our best players. That gives us two lines of solid offensive talent coupled with defensive-mindedness, one line capable of offense but fitted for solid defensive play, and one line that works hard and provides some energy. Also, Helm could be substituted in for Draper.

I'm not sure I'm following your logic. It's inside the rules for Jovo to punch Z in the lower back knowing full well that he's just recovering from an injury to the area? Being frustrated because a stupid penalty just cost you the game doesn't excuse that bulls***. Nobody likes a sore loser.

What, going to piss and moan about the need for an enforcer, even though there's no chance in hell Downey is on the ice in the last 30 seconds of a one-goal game?

Someone needs to tell Jovanovski that while that penalty was questionable, hitting a player who just got over an injury to his back in the lower back is a real joke. I'd love to see the sore loser get a suspension for that immature s***, but I know it won't happen.

Who did I conveniently forget about to add Neil? Hossa? There's no way we can afford him in my dream scenario (if we were to keep Hudler and Franzen). Flip? I made a point of saying that I'd like to see him traded as it gives us wiggle room, and the ability to have more depth and cap room. Aside from that, the only current forwards on our roster I left out were Kopecky, Downey, and Abdelkader, all of which I gave reasons for. When was the last time the Red Wings brought up three unproven rookies all at the same time? Leino is going to bolt if he's not in the NHL next year (plus he's 25 years old), and Helm has been waiting for a helluva lot longer than Abdelkader. Also, to bring a rookie up at 21 is semi early for the 'Wings; they always let them mature a bit longer than other teams, and it seems to work. I just don't see Abdelkader being likely for next year.

We certainly don't have "too many" forwards. Personally, I'd like to see Kopecky not return. Aside from that, who is there? Abdelkader? I just can't see him getting his shot next year; there are too many guys ahead of him. Downey? Sure, like you said, he can "goon it up", but he can't play much hockey. McCarty? Oh please. I think Neil would be a great addition to the team. He's a UFA on a terrible Senators team, and one of the few "tough guys" that can play hockey. He contributes a little bit (more than your average 4th liner), fights whenever he's needed to, and is always relatively close to the top of the league in hits when all is said and done. I don't want to make this an argument about enforcers and whether or not we need one, but having one on the team sure couldn't hurt. You think a ***** like Ott is going to pull his usual crap if he knows he's going to have to answer to Neil? What's so bad about him?

Why does everyone act like Hudler is so dispensable? He's averaging 13 minutes a game, he's got 40 points in 50 games, and he's on pace for 27 goals and 65 points. Also, he's 25 years old. Take a look at Datsyuk's stats at Hudler's age; you'll see numbers that are very similar. I can see him potentially developing into a world class talent similar to St. Louis. Also, pending a Penner-like offer sheet by another GM, Hudler (who is a RFA) is not going to get 3.5M+ after his first breakout season. Franzen, on the other hand, could very well be handed an absurd, Malone-esque contract, even with uncertain salary cap times just around the corner. A knack for goal scoring will always be more valuable on the UFA market than almost anything else. With that said, my dream solution would be to move Flip, and with our remaining 12.4M, I'd like to see a long-term contract for Hudler right around 3M, 4M for Franzen (if he'll go that low), resign Sammy for ~1.2M, 850k for Leino, 550k for Helm, a big guy who can stand up for his teammates for 1-2M, and a backup goalie. Holmstrom-Datsyuk-Franzen(4) Leino(.85)-Hudler(3)-Zetterberg Cleary-Helm(.55)-Sammy(1.2) Maltby-Draper-Neil(1.5) I can't see Leino or Helm rotting in the minors another year, but I can't see Abdelkader coming up so early either. Also, for all the hell you guys give Sammy, he's a good role player who can put up around 40 points and is USUALLY defensively sound. Sure, he makes a dumb move here and there, but you get what you pay for.

I agree with the other posters; depth is more important than having three big stars. Look at the Penguins, for example. They have two of the best centers in the league, and they're the only ones putting up points. Another good example (complete one line team) would be the Senators. People seem to forget we just won a Cup with the same roster, but without Hossa. Having Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Holmstrom, Cleary, Flip, Leino (hopefully), Hudler, and Franzen isn't too shabby. Pick up a tough guy or two and we have it all: play-making, goal scoring, speed, skill, grit, depth, etc. Of course, this post is assuming Franzen doesn't try to get Malone-like money, and nobody hands Hudler a Penner-like offer sheet.

That's one game, and that's also the way things usually happen when a team starts off terribly. The Red Wings caught on after that, and started to get their s*** together. But don't try to apply that to most of Osgood's starts, being that it was only one game. Conklin has faced 653 shots in 24 games (27 per game, on average), whereas Osgood has faced 693 shots in 26 starts (26.7 per game, on average). Nobody is trying to say that Conklin has been perfect; they're saying he has been better, which is almost indisputable.

This thread isn't merely about last night, for all of you saying "two of those three weren't his fault." This thread is about his overall play thus far this season. It's also not about how much worse other players have been, because I'm absolutely sure somebody will make a thread about that sooner or later (I don't think we have a player that hasn't had a thread like that this year). Yes, our defense has been questionable this season. However, a hall-of-fame caliber (as many here argue) goalie such as Osgood should rise to the challenge. Look at his career as an Islander; he had terrible defense, little offense to counterbalance the goals, but he rose to the challenge, and his stats tell the same story. This year, his save percentage is DEAD LAST in the league for goalies playing at least 15 games. People can't simply criticize Osgood on here without being labeled anti-Osgood; for some reason, it's taboo. Yes, of course we appreciated him last season: he was reliable, consistent, clutch, and COMPETENT. The fans' appreciation for Osgood was well deserved. However, if we can appreciate him when he's doing well, we can criticize him when he's doing poorly. Same goes for any player. Datsyuk, whom everyone is claiming to be our best player, received much criticism early on this season due to his slow start. Since he's improved his play, people are calling him our best player. I'm not saying I dislike Osgood any more than I did last season; I'm saying that he's none of those things he was last year and doesn't, at this point in time, deserve the starting role.

First of all, I'm thinking English isn't the OP's native language, so there's really no need to make fun of him. If you've ever tried, it's extremely difficult to master two languages. Second of all, I'm in agreement with KG here. While I don't hold Osgood responsible for every goal, he needs to step it up. I'm so tired of seeing people say "the defense didn't show up" whenever Osgood is in net; I honestly don't remember a loss this year where Ozzie let in 4+ goals and people weren't blaming the defense regardless of his play. Does that mean Osgood hasn't been at fault yet this year? I beg to differ. The goalie is there for when the defense makes a mistake, and you expect your goalie to make the majority of those saves. And while he has come up with some huge saves this season, he's let in a good amount of softies too. I'm also tired of people riding Osgood's success from last year. He was great last season, and absolutely stellar in the playoffs. But I'll state the obvious here: it's a new season, and a new Osgood. At what point does Babcock stop his blind faith in Osgood when he falters time and time again? Maybe about the time he stopped his faith in Hasek last year, should that happen again. Let me end this post with a disclaimer: I have nothing against Osgood. I would like nothing more than for Osgood to regain his form from last season, picking up right where he left off. But until Osgood proves he's capable of being the starting goalie for this team, put Conklin in there to start the big games and put Osgood in when Conks needs the rest. Give him something to work for.

Sorry if this has been posted already, but I found this really interesting. For those who haven't been paying attention, there has been an on-going feud between Ovechkin and Malkin for the last few years, reportedly over some small quarrel over which both held a grudge against the other. However, one of the big stories of the All-Star game was that the two seemingly had put it behind them, and apparently this was largely due to Kovalchuk's efforts. Really classy move. I'm glad that the Thrashers gave Kovalchuk the captaincy. http://voices.washingtonpost.com/capitalsi...capitalsinsider

Well, I put Franzen-Hudler-Sammy because they were so successful last year in the playoffs. It was the beginning of Hudler's breakout, the peak of Franzen's breakout, and Sammy was playing halfway decent hockey! But I completely understand where you're coming from with that statement. More playing time certainly is crucial to Filppula's development.

Maybe it's just me, but I just haven't ever been too impressed with Kopecky's play. He's a 4th liner, doesn't use his body as well as he could, doesn't add much energy to the line, and doesn't have much of an offensive upside. That, coupled with the fact that Leino is getting antsy in the minors and Helm has always impressed me led me to exclude Kopecky from my (fantasy) line-up.

Actually, it leaves us with about 9M (and some change). With 9M, we could probably manage to sign Hudler (2), Sammy (1.5), Franzen (4), Conklin (750k), Leino (850k), and Helm (550k). Agreed though, that retaining Hossa (who stands to make at least 6, but 7 is more realistic) is a stretch. If we didn't keep Franzen or Flip, though, it's a possibility. Holmstrom-Datsyuk-Zetterberg Franzen-Hudler-Sammy Cleary-Flippula-Leino Maltby-Draper-Helm And Meech could serve as 13th forward and 7th D. And just to be clear, I used the LGW salary chart and added in Z for 6M a year, leaving us with about 9M.

Just as a little side note, it's very strange to think of Zetterberg towards the end of the contract. It's odd remembering Zetterberg and Datsyuk as timid little rookies with tremendous potential, seeing the players they blossomed into, and then thinking about them retiring as Red Wings. I think if the 'Wings get another Cup or two with Z and D at the helm, and they continue to be the players they are today, we'll see 13 and 40 in the rafters someday.

Great signing! I'm glad Zetterberg and Datsyuk seem to be headed towards playing their whole careers with the 'Wings! Now, that leaves us with roughly 9M to spend for next year. We have 7 players on our back end signed (all but Chelios), we need a back-up for Ozzie (Conklin/Howard/Larsson), and we have Hossa, Hudler, Sammy, Franzen, and Kopecky to sign. Our goalie should cost under a million (.75M), and I think we could definitely get Hudler for cheap, along the lines of 2M. Also, it would probably be wise to sign Leino and Helm to pretty cheap contracts, around (.850M, .6M are their current salaries). I wouldn't mind Sammy coming back for relatively cheap, say 1.5M. But even then, that's 5.8M right there, and leaves us with 7 defensemen, 2 goalies, and 11 forwards, and 3.2M to buy another forward (or two, for depth). Ken Holland is going to have to be magic to pull off keeping Hossa. Even Franzen will be difficult. EDIT: These figures are assuming the cap stays put.

As you're all well aware, Datsyuk is having arguably his best season ever, and seems like he will make a legit run for the Hart, Selke and Lady Byng (which would extend his streak to four in a row). Lidstrom, on the other hand, is still playing all-star caliber (hence the suspension ) defense as well as a solid game offensively, seemingly still head and shoulders above his competition. However, will Datsyuk and Lidstrom's suspensions hurt their chances at winning individual awards? I know that the voting is done by the sports writer's guild, and many of the sports writers seem to be tearing into the two of them for not going to the ASG. Now, I don't want this thread to turn into whether or not the suspension was justified (the other thread was locked for a reason), but I really am curious what you guys think. Especially due to the nature of the Lady Byng; has anyone ever been suspended in the same season they won the Lady Byng?

While we can't generalize, the Stanley Cup is a huge deal for hockey players no matter where you go. Players look at the NHL as a place where they can compete against the best of the best for the highest salaries, for international recognition, and for the ultimate trophy. I don't care where you're from, be it Russia, Sweden, Finland, etc; if you're a hockey player with the highest of aspirations, the NHL is where you want to be. Also, I think the recent death in a KHL hockey game (due to negligence) stands to discourage players from playing there more than a few dumb policies of Gary Bettman. And for the record, Jagr was quoted by THN saying that if Mario Lemieux called him up today and offered him a spot on the Penguins' roster for the league minimum, he'd have to "think very hard on it." Doesn't sound like jumping ship for the money was worth it to him, and Jagr is a guy that is reputedly a very "greedy" player.

Until you clinch the Presidents' trophy? What's so meaningful about that? The truth is, when you're the Red Wings, regular season truly doesn't matter. I know it's kind of nice to finish first in the league, but how about we let the other teams kill themselves over it this year while we coast through the regular season, and arrive to the playoffs semi-well-rested rather than burnt out? I won't lose a second of sleep over Datsyuk missing the ASG. Our plague of minor injuries couldn't have happened at a better time. EDIT: Also, it's a lot more likely for Datsyuk to have left the game because he was actually injured rather than just to put on a front and have an excuse for the ASG. Look at Lidstrom, he's "injured" but still finished the game.

I never get why people seem to think that teams would be open to trading players like Chris Neil for other team's garbage players like Lebda and a low draft pick. There's a reason fans from every team constantly bring up picking up Neil, and there's also a reason that the Senators haven't let it happen yet.

Right when the game began and I saw Osgood in net, my heart sank. I really wish people would stop talking about last season in his defense. Yes, he played well last season. Yes, his playoff performance last season was Conn Smythe-worthy. However, it's a new season, and a new Osgood. This year he just can't make the big saves. Sure, you can always find one or two big saves he made, but the fact that you have to single out saves from individual games should be an argument AGAINST his performance, not for it. Stats can only be misleading to a certain point. Our defensive play has most certainly dropped off a bit, but that would affect both Osgood and Conklin. Conklin's save percentage is at .922, and Osgood's is sitting at .885 before this game (with a GAA about one goal higher), which undoubtedly dropped it. As another poster stated, both goalies started out rough, and only one of them has improved thus far. And Babcock clearly isn't operating on the reward system with his goalies, either. It must be disheartening for Conklin to come up with a shutout and still ride the bench in the next game, which was (arguably) the biggest game of the year. I don't blame the loss solely on Osgood though. I do think he should have had a few of the goals, but you can't let a team like the Sharks have free reign in our zone like they did. Defensive lapses killed us tonight. I'm not sure what happened tonight, but two consecutive breakaways in one of the biggest games of the season triggers a red flag for me. I think our loss can also, in part, be attributed to the fact that San Jose came out with a great deal of speed and physicality that we're simply not used to. Their forecheck is extremely aggressive, and they broke up our passes throughout the entire game. I think the fact that we scored five goals is more of a testament to our outstanding offensive talent than to their lack of defensive/goaltending talent. Also, as another poster pointed out, they're missing two of their top defenders. I look forward to meeting them in February and humbling them! The fact that San Jose seemed to be playing their absolute best, and the Red Wings seemed to play sub par is actually sort of promising given the result of this game. It will definitely make the playoffs more interesting, assuming both teams make it that far!