clutchngrab

Gotta love Torts. That's priceless. Babs, on the other hand, is more like my wife's silent treatment. I won't talk to you because you should know better...

You do realize 4 years is an eternity in professional sports? Both the wings fans and management have a strong propensity to live in yesterdays accomplishments. Yes there are always core players that are key - Lids, Dats, Z thru multiple years, but the rest of the cast should change as needed. The teams that compete for the cup have, besides luck and lack of injuries, is a good mix of core veterans, solid mid-career contributors and hungry youth. The formula has always been the same - and was for each extended run the wings have made. It's called team chemistry.

All the homer's (in this case Cleary lovers) clearly can't objectively evaluate this team.

You guys realize that today if they end up in the 6th spot they get Dallas... Hmm maybe there is method to their suck.

News flash - Babcock is not a good bench coach and never has been. Unlike Scotty, he's never shown an ability to adjust lines and ice time based on the what's happening in a particular game. He got out-coached by Blasma the last time we were in the finals and I don't expect that he's going to out-coach Ken Hitchcock to get out of the west. Basic execution on PP and PK are mediocre at best. Bad line changes and too many men penalties are too frequent. This team is getting sloppy in details and Babcock pouting like my wife isn't gonna fix it. Either personnel needs to change or Babcock needs to go. Should be an interesting offseason.

So what? - no ramifications around ice time and who should be playing or not playing.

I can't decide if this group is not good enough or if Babcock/Holland are not good enough

Yeah, he's really the 3rd string goalie. Whatdya gonna do...

First the positives: Smith really looks like he will develop into a very good NHL defensemen. I've seen improvement in his game since he has been up. I postulate that within a year or 2 he will surpass Ericcson in the depth chart. Nyquist looks like he could easily fill in for Hudler and bring more speed and defense to the top 6. Which begs the question as to why Holland refused to make the trades necessary to impove this team. Both Zetterberg and Fil look like they are getting in good form going into the playoffs. Now the negatives: Stuart looks pretty s***ty these days. Maybe he is getting too many minutes - but beyond the occasional big hit, I won't miss him too much if Smith is up to stay. Kronwall is not actually a very good defenseman in his own end. Sorry, no Nick Jr, afterall. Emmerton and Mursak are... meh - inconsequential on any given night. Dan ******* Cleary. (Yes that is his new legal middle name) is so bad I cringe whenever he is on the ice. Can someone explain to me how the coach doesn't see this? Can someone explain to me why is he on the ice in OT? Bertuzzi is a wash - pretty much costs as much as or more than the value he gives. I think if this team gets Nick back, Helm healthy and Dats and Howard playing well, they could maybe get past the second round, but that would be tough without home ice. What's also extremely frustrating is the lack of game preparation and execution from a coaching point of view. PP and PK not where they should be - even before injuries. Mental mistakes like tonight are par for the course. I think this is the dark side of never making personnel changes. It's called complacency, tuning out the coach and getting sloppy. The other frustration is that we have as good a defensive group including the goalie as we have had since the mid 90's and yet we have not been able to create a supporting forward cast able to validate Datsyuks talent or in the end to win a cup. I believe 2008/2009 was the last great run and we won't be seeing another until the GM and or coach are fired.

I've been saying this all season - before and after the home streak. Holland rarely makes glaring mistakes. He gets good value out of his contracts (more or less - except for term) but he takes zero chances. For example, White and Qincey are useful pick-ups. The defense and goaltending are as solid as they have been the last 15 years. The top 6 forwards are really only top 3 (Flip is now w/ Dats and Z) plus an occasional appearance by Mule - and really other than Dats none of them show up on a consistent basis. Holland is a loyalist to a fault. He really needed to shake up this team to get a pure scorer w/ Dats, but he didn't have the balls to do so. He has completely blown it this year given the cap space and guys that could be traded to create a more viable top 6. He didn't do it and it is sad give the last year or 2 of Lidstroms career plus having one of the best forwards in the game. What a waste....

As soon as I saw him out there, I said to myself "wtf is he doing out there? ... watch San Jose will score". And sure enough. Babcock has a man-crush on Cleary which I have not been able to figure out all season.

agreed. I'm picking the blues out of the west because they are young, talented, big, physical, can skate and have a coach that can make them play together. Look at how Hitch has overachieved through his career with the talent he has had. Puts Babs to shame in my opinion.

With Edmonton a few years back. Right before Burke, then GM of Anaheim, gave him a RFA offer. That little spat was very entertaining.

What burns my ass is here we have one of the top players in the game in his prime and the best Holland can do is surround him with Bert and Franzen. Really? This is like a crime against humanity. Imagine Dats with Perry, Kessel or Gaborik - or even Kovalchuk - it boggles the mind how Holland has wasted the top 2 or 3 forwards in the game.

What's frustrating is that this guy has all the tools in the world to be an elite forward yet he doesn't have the heart or psyche to be that forward. It's almost like he took less money to remain a wing, float around and underachieve. Maybe I have an unrealistic assessment of his abilities (ala Dustin Penner's amazing playoff run?), but I think not.

Well you are right about expectations. However a cup winning team has to have luck, health, hunger, goaltending, talent and a good mix of youth and vets to balance all that. Think about the wings cup teams - or any other cup winning teams of recent years. Ask yourself if the 2012 wings are that type of team? I would say close, but no cigar. You can't have passengers and you need everyone playing to their potential. Of these aforementioned players who makes the cut?

Sad, isn't it. One of the greatest active players over the last 2 or 3 years and going into the next 2 or 3 hasn't had a winger that can support his abilities. Holland is a very conservative and pedestrian GM - If he makes a deal it's usually a good one - but he has no vision or sense of team aesthetic. On top of that his loyalty to players from yesterday seems to supersede his desire to win today. I watched Janick come up today and play light years better than Erricson. I suspect replacements for Cleary are easily found as well. This is probably the last year of this generational cup window and he has done almost nothing to make this team a true contender for the cup. Combine all this with Babcock's inability to reward players ice time based on contribution and you have one very stale organization. Second round exit again - if that

That's just retarded. He's under no more wear and tear than any other hockey player out there.

No s***. I think he took the offseason completely off. His skating sucks, his shooting sucks, he's weak on the puck - I could go on - but every Z fan can see his game is way off. This is no way about linemates. This is about playing mostly s***ty hockey.

Both Helm and Abs have been somewhat disappointing this year. I was hoping for a bigger career jump for at least one of the two. I agree that Abbie should not be a center but a fore-checking wing in order to be most effective.

I wish Z would have gotten suspended. Maybe that would be a wake-up call.

exactly - what's your point? He's an overpaid 3rd line player? I'm down with that.

I'd s*** myself if that could happen, but it seems extremely optimistic. I'm not a Franzen hater by any stretch, but I do believe he has more value right now in a trade than he does wearing the winged wheel. I say this only because the urge to play hard seems sporadic with him. With that, I'll give him a pass for one more post-season and see how that rolls....

Can we swap coaches with St. Louis? I think Babcock's message is getting old.

Flip and Dats are the only 2 that show up night in and night out.