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I said Lidstrom may have used it as a negotiating tool. He may have, and I wouldn't find it shocking or outrageous if he did. If it is ultimately the word choice of "threatened" you are reacting to, consider it retracted. Despite hints of playing in Sweden or retiring, Lidstrom stayed here and I have a feeling money had more than a little to do with it. It was not a direct comparison to Fedorov, but only to state everyone is looking out for himself come contract time. Lidstrom could take a lot less money if he wanted to and he certainly did not need a no-movement-clause or the unofficial "Lidstrom Cap". The guy has certainly looked out for himself, and more power to him for it. Fedorov wanted to lead a team and he did not get that in Detroit - not everyone needs that, but if it is important to you, find a way to make a change. EDIT: Dogs are fine But it is scary as hell - we live near a busy road and there are all sorts of terrible things that can happen. That said, I will probably do it again at some point... this is not the first time they have gotten out. But yeah, not exactly the best comparison to Fedorov - as it was not a "mistake" he signed another contract and offer sheet - the guy just wanted another opportunity. Though the "mistake" was more in the way he handled it, which I think led to more criticism than it could have been. See Shanahan for a better way to go about leaving a team.

That's the annoying thing about message boards. You read my post and this is what you took away from it? I even carefully stated that Fedorov was different from Lidstrom and Yzerman. I'm not sure why you feel the need to defend Lidstrom to me -- but most know the idea of Lidstrom playing in Sweden always seemed to pop up during contract time. So what? Maybe it was a bargaining chip for more more money, years or a NTC and maybe it was not. Is that really shocking or egregious if it is the case? I am not bothered by it one it if it is the case, and I am not assuming so either. But I do know Lidstrom is not a perfect human being, and I would never expect that. I think pretty well of myself, but just this morning I forgot to latch the gate and my dogs got out -- terribly irresponsible and there could have been awful consequences, but I hope others will not judge me on this one irresponsible mistake I made... and there have been plenty of others.

Fischer was not overrated at all - he was young and improving every single year. Fast skater, huge body, excellent puck control, could play physical, hit hard, took lessons from Kocur and took Hartnell out in one punch in a fight, great passer and had a hard shot. Defensemen, especialy big defensemen, take a long time to develop.

I hate that the Hart is the most esteemed award for the regular season. Who cares who is most valuable to his team, they have "team" awards for that. I just want to know who the writers feel had the greatest season, period. If the definition of the award was taken literally, every year it would go to a good goalie on a bad team that barely made the playoffs that year. No one was more important to their team than Mason this year - but he was nowhere near the best player in the league. Luckily, the definition is pretty much ignored and Hart goes to arguably the best player each year regardless, but I wish they would chenge the official definition to fit that spirit more.

I actually enjoyed reading those articles. Dads are dads, just most of them know better than to mouth off to the media when they think their famous son is getting the raw end of the deal. A junior hockey coach is going to play his best player as much as possible, so I can understand him thinking Sergei was being "disrespected", but Bowman was running a professional team. At times, Sergei wanted something different - and he twice tried to get away. I guess I am just not that offended by it. People change jobs, pack up and move elsewhere all the time and leave friends and others behind. It's ultimately a job for these guys. What I get from these articles is that Sergei did genuinely care about the organization, his teamates, the fans and about playing hockey. I dont think it was ever as much about the money, but the chance to really lead a team. Sure, it is a different attitude than Yzerman and Lidstrom, but I don't think it is a terrible thing to want at all. You may have highlighted that he had alienated some fans and teamates for a while, but he also did a lot for charity in Detroit. No matter who you are, $2+ million is a lot to give. His charity still operates in Detroit, he still has a home here. He has said on more than one occassion he would welcome the opportunity to play in Detroit again. And by many accounts he frequently visits the Ilitch family. Just not a lot for me to feel "jilted" about there. He's still playing hockey at his age, and by all accounts is a huge team player, leader and still a hard worker. Obviously he does not need to be doing any of that with all he has accomplished and the money he has made. He'll even still play defense on occassion, and while I can't fault him for preferring to play forward, he still does it, and does it well. Lidstrom has threatened to play in Sweden a few times, and it may have been a tactic for more money - neither he nor Yzerman are infallible. Yzerman certainly made a lot more money than he was worth this decade. Stevie clashed with Bowman as well. None of it is that big of a deal to me. I feel the good Sergei contributed to this team and community vastly outweighs the negatives, but I will certainly admit they are negatives. I just don't think those negatives are enough to keep a deserving candidate from getting his number retired in Detroit.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but just want to clarify on some of the old-timers. Sawchuk was bats*** crazy, and actually died from wounds inflicted while he was fighting a teamate when he was with the Rangers. Lindsay was one of the most despised hockey players ever, and that was before he started trying to unionize which made him even more hated. Time heals all wounds - and in twenty years most people will look back on Fedorov just like we do Lindsay and Sawchuk and think, "Wow, that guy was a legend."

Great points -- I especially agree with #3 as to why wings jerseys do not sell as high. The Wings have had about 20 years of bandwagon fans jump on now - it has not been a one-time thing like Crosby or Ovechkin. I still have my Konstantinov jersey and am content to just hold onto that one. I still see more Yzerman jerseys than all the other jerseys combined.

Which actualy makes the analogy to Lindsay even better - the whole point of Lindsay's fight was so players could earn more money, himself included. He was not a popular figure with owners, GMs, fans and even other players - who were happy to be earning a paycheck playing hockey at all, and thought it was disruptive to make a stink about it. Fedorov was simply exercising that right Lindsay fought to give. Sure, it does not make him a legendary "team" guy like Yzerman, but Fedorov was a player who deserved to be amongst the league's best paid athletes.

I think he meant to type "posTer".

You missed a few: Ebbie Goodfellow 1st (1940); 3rd (1937) Syd Howe 3rd (1943) Sid Abel 1st (1949) Red Kelly 2nd (1954); 3rd (1951 & 1953) Terry Sawchuk 3rd (1963) Norm Ullman 2nd (1965)

I pretty much agree with both sides -- The Wings would have been awfully top-heavy and shackled if Fedorov had signed that contract. Holland had every right to pull it back and Fedorov had every right to leave if he didn't like it. None of it takes away what Fedorov accomplished with Detroit, and it should have very little to do with whether or not his jersey is retired.

How often do you see someone up for all 3 of those at once? I'll tell you: Joe Sakic in 2001, won the Hart and Lady Byng, and was runner-up for the Selke. Nice company, Datsyuk!

Lebda's hip check was nice -- he's starting to use that more often, which is great. Have you noticed across the league, the hip check is back? I love it!

How could you leave out Commodore's comedy routine??? (they are very good, by the way)

That's awesome -- I'm actually suprised. Holding out for a Pearson??? As good as Datsyuk is, it is sad that he has already done better than Lidstrom when it comes to the Hart.

Here's the full 2nd round schedule: 1. By Network NBC: May 2, Pittsburgh vs. Washington, 1:00 PM ET May 3, Anaheim vs. Detroit, 2:00 PM ET VERSUS: April 30th Chicago vs. Vancouver, Game 1, 9:00 PM ET* May 1st Anaheim vs. Detroit, Game 1, 7:00 PM ET* Carolina vs. Boston, Game 1, 7:30 PM ET (JOINED IN PROGRESS) May 2nd Chicago vs. Vancouver, Game 2, 9:00 PM ET May 3rd Carolina vs. Boston, Game 2, 7:30 PM ET* May 4th Pittsburgh vs. Washington, Game 2, 7:00 PM ET* May 5th Vancouver vs. Chicago, Game 3, 8:00 PM ET Detroit vs. Anaheim, Game 3, 10:30 PM ET May 6th Washington vs. Pittsburgh, Game 3, 7:00 PM ET* Boston vs. Carolina, Game 3, 7:30 PM ET (JOINED IN PROGRESS) May 7th Vancouver vs. Chicago, Game 4, 8:00 PM ET* Detroit vs. Anaheim, Game 4, 10:30 PM ET* May 8th Washington vs. Pittsburgh, Game 4, 7:00 PM ET Boston vs. Carolina, Game 4, 7:30 PM ET (JOINED IN PROGRESS) May 9th Pittsburgh vs. Washington, Game 5, 7:00 PM ET Chicago vs. Vancouver, Game 5, 10:30 PM ET May 10th Carolina vs. Boston, Game 5, 7:30 PM ET* May 11th Washington vs. Pittsburgh, Game 6, 7:00 PM ET Vancouver vs. Chicago, Game 6, 9:00 PM ET (JOINED IN PROGRESS) May 12th Boston vs. Carolina, Game 6, 7:00 PM ET Detroit vs. Anaheim, Game 6 10:00 PM ET May 13th Pittsburgh vs. Washington, Game 7, 7:00 PM ET May 14th Anaheim vs. Detroit, Game 7, 7:00 PM ET Chicago vs. Vancouver, Game 7, 10:00 PM ET VERSUS Exclusive Telecasts: April 30th - Chicago vs. Vancouver, Game 1, 9:00 PM ET May 1st - Anaheim vs. Detroit, Game 1, 7:00 PM ET May 3rd - Carolina vs. Boston, Game 2, 7:30 PM ET May 4th - Pittsburgh vs. Washington, Game 2, 7:00 PM ET May 6th - Washington vs. Pittsburgh, Game 3, 7:00 PM ET May 7th - Vancouver vs. Chicago, Game 4, 8:00 PM ET May 7th - Detroit vs. Anaheim, Game 4, 10:30 PM ET May 10th - Carolina vs. Boston, Game 5, 7:30 PM ET Canada CBC April 30th Chicago vs. Vancouver, Game 1, 9:00 PM ET May 2nd Pittsburgh vs. Washington, Game 1, 1:00 PM ET Chicago vs. Vancouver, Game 2, 9:00 PM ET May 4th Pittsburgh vs. Washington, Game 2, 7:00 PM ET May 5th Vancouver vs. Chicago, Game 3, 8:00 PM ET May 6th Washington vs. Pittsburgh, Game 3, 7:00 PM ET May 7th Vancouver vs. Chicago, Game 4, 8:00 PM ET May 8th Washington vs. Pittsburgh, Game 4, 7:00 PM ET May 9th Pittsburgh vs. Washington, Game 5, 7:00 PM ET Chicago vs. Vancouver, Game 5, 10:30 PM ET May 11th Washington vs. Pittsburgh, Game 6, 7:00 PM ET Vancouver vs. Chicago, Game 6, 9:00 PM ET May 13th Pittsburgh vs. Washington, Game 7, 7:00 PM ET May 14th Chicago vs. Vancouver, Game 7, 9/10:00 PM ET TSN/TSN2: May 1st Anaheim vs. Detroit, Game 1, 7:00 PM ET (TSN2) Carolina vs. Boston, Game 1, 7:30 PM ET (TSN) May 3rd Anaheim vs. Detroit, Game 2, 2:00 PM ET Carolina vs. Boston, Game 2, 7:30 PM ET May 5th Detroit vs. Anaheim, Game 3, 10:30 PM ET May 6th Boston vs. Carolina, Game 3, 7:30 PM ET May 7th Detroit vs. Anaheim, Game 4, 10:30 PM ET May 8th Boston vs. Carolina, Game 4, 7:30 PM ET May 10th Anaheim vs. Detroit, Game 5, 5:00 PM ET Carolina vs. Boston, Game 5, 7:30 PM ET May 12th Boston vs. Carolina, Game 6, 7:00 PM ET Detroit vs. Anaheim, Game 6, 10:00 PM ET May 14th Carolina vs. Boston, Game 7, TBD Anaheim vs. Detroit, Game 7, TBD 2. Day-by-Day April 30th Chicago vs. Vancouver, Game 1, 9:00 PM ET (CBC/VERSUS) May 1st Anaheim vs. Detroit, Game 1, 7:00 PM ET (VERSUS/TSN2) Carolina vs. Boston, Game 1, 7:30 PM ET (TSN/VERSUS JIP) May 2nd Pittsburgh vs. Washington, Game 1, 1:00 PM ET (NBC/CBC/RDS) Chicago vs. Vancouver, Game 2, 9:00 PM ET (CBC/VERSUS) May 3rd Anaheim vs. Detroit, Game 2, 2:00 PM ET (NBC/TSN) Carolina vs. Boston, Game 2, 7:30 PM ET (VERSUS/TSN) May 4th Pittsburgh vs. Washington, Game 2, 7:00 PM ET (VERSUS/CBC/RDS) May 5th Vancouver vs. Chicago, Game 3, 8:00 PM ET (CBC/VERSUS) Detroit vs. Anaheim, Game 3, 10:30 PM ET (VERSUS/TSN) May 6th Washington vs. Pittsburgh, Game 3, 7:00 PM ET (VERSUS/CBC/RDS) Boston vs. Carolina, Game 3, 7:30 PM ET (TSN/VERSUS JIP) May 7th Vancouver vs. Chicago, Game 4, 8:00 PM ET (CBC/VERSUS) Detroit vs. Anaheim, Game 4, 10:30 PM ET (VERSUS/TSN) May 8th Washington vs. Pittsburgh, Game 4, 7:00 PM ET (VERSUS/CBC/RDS) Boston vs. Carolina, Game 4, 7:30 PM ET (TSN/VERSUS JIP) May 9th Pittsburgh vs. Washington, Game 5, 7:00 PM ET (VERSUS/CBC/RDS) Chicago vs. Vancouver, Game 5, 10:30 PM ET (CBC/VERSUS/RDS) May 10th Anaheim vs. Detroit, Game 5, 5:00 PM ET (TSN) Carolina vs. Boston, Game 5, 7:30 PM ET (VERSUS/TSN) May 11th Washington vs. Pittsburgh, Game 6, 7:00 PM ET (VERSUS/CBC/RDS) Vancouver vs. Chicago, Game 6, 9:00 PM ET (CBC/VERSUS JIP) May 12th Boston vs. Carolina, Game 6, 7:00 PM ET (VERSUS/TSN) Detroit vs. Anaheim, Game 6, 10:00 PM ET (VERSUS/TSN) May 13th Pittsburgh vs. Washington, Game 7, 7:00 M ET (VERSUS/CBC/RDS) May 14th Carolina vs. Boston, Game 7, TBD (TSN/VERSUS) Anaheim vs. Detroit, Game 7, TBD (VERSUS/TSN) Chicago vs. Vancouver, Game 7, 9/10PM ET (VERSUS/CBC)

Bettman shamelessly uses the Wings, but then never promotes them. And I do not want to hear about "whining" because Osgood and Holland have "whined" about the same thing. It's not just the fans that notice. I honeslty do not understand Versus - the Red Wings have pulled in the highest ratings seen across the country in years, from last year's SCF (of course Crosby helped) and the last Winter Classic, which pulled in a lot more viewers than Crosby's Winter Classic. How do you ignore that, and why? Wash/Pitt is a great series, no doubt, but Det/Ana is pretty damn exciting one as well - certainly more exciting than Bos/Car. And more so than any other team, the Wings have viewers outside of their state. Consider how well they helped ratings in Ohio: Regular season game vs. Detroit yielded higher ratings than the game vs. Pittsburgh: 4.53 vs 3.28. Detroit's ratings were down 16% this season and now they're almost triple their regular season average. I'm sure having a bad Pistons team this year has helped. Meanwhile, Puck The Media: Despite this, the East is will still get the Lion's share of games broadcast nationally.

I'd say the Penguins are easily the better team -- I just hope whomever wins this series is able to squeek by Boston, b/c Washington or Pittsburg will be a lot easier series than Boston, IMO.

From who is already in, I would say it is more important to start your career as a Red Wing than it is to finish your career as a Red Wing. Draper fails in that, and he'll also never make the Hockey Hall of Fame. Regardless, I don't think there should be any iron-clad "rules", but they can serve as a guideline. I'll start it out -- Some guys that definitely deserve to have their jerseys retired before Draper: Red Kelly Larry Aurie Ebbie Goodfellow Syd Howe Jack Stewart Marcel Pronovost Marty Pavelich Norm Ullman Marty Barry Sergei Fedorov Chris Osgood

I do not doubt those "issues" have a bearing, but "issues" have not kept others from getting in. I am not contesting Dino had an excellent career (though no Cup, which will almost always keep a marginal guy out) and compiled some great stats - but that is only one part of the equation. Ciccarelli was never a league leader at his position and was never even a 2nd team all star. In goals, he only cracked the top 10 twice in his entire career. But you are right, I have a feeling w/o the personal issues, Dino might be in -- the problem is he was not good enough to overlook them, like many were. Many are not too happy with Gartner being in, but it is easy to make a case for him over Dino (more goals in his career and top 10 in goals five times vs. Dino's 2). Gartner at least made Canadian Cup teams - never Dino. Look at the guys not in yet, and tell me who Ciccarelli should be ahead of: Steve Yzerman Brett Hull Luke Robitaille Brian Leetch Mark Howe Adam Oates Sergei Makarov Doug Gilmour JC Tremblay Rick Middleton Tom Barrasso Ron Hextall Rogatien Vachon John Vanbiesbrouck Mike Vernon Theoren Fleury Andy Moog Alexander Mogilny Paul Henderson Pete Mahovlich Pavel Bure Dave Andreychuk Vincent Damphousse Mike Richter Phil Housely Pat Verbeek Rick Martin Ken Hodge Doug Wilson Next year he'll have these guys to contend with as well: Petr Bondra Sean Burke Eric Lindros Scott Mellanby Joe Nieuwendyk Mike Ricci Pierre Turgeon Sure, you can argue he should be ahead of quite a few of those guys, but I bet even you will admit he is nowhere near the top. Draper deserves to be an Honored Red Wing Alumni and inducted into the Red Wings Hall of Fame. I think that is quite an honor. Take a good look at a lot of these guys, as many of them deserve to go up before Draper would: http://www.redwingalumni.com/hallOfFameRedWings.html

Can you get a suspension for "Flagrant intent to injure, resulting in an injury" when the resulting injury is himself?

Heh... I think the kid is his own, which takes the edge off for me at least

Bench clearing brawl? I hope not -- the Wings need to stay on their game. Play hard, dish out hits, and get back up and go again after a hit. if the Wings get off their game and start trying to play the Ducks' game this could be a very long series.

Scoring depth is ridculously one-sided here. 6 Franzen (2nd line) 5 Cleary (2nd line) 4 Hossa (1st line) 4 Hudler (3rd line) 4 Holmstrom (1st line) 4 Zetterberg (2nd line) 3 Filppula (3rd line) VS. 8 Getzlaf (1st line) 4 Ryan (1st line) 4 Perry (1st line) 3 Miller (2nd line)

It's the opposite - honored, but un-retired: Fine print: