egroen

I would be shocked if Holland traded a roster player at the deadline (though not necessarily disappointed). If Stuart is still skakey and/or the defense has not significantly shaped up, I bet he finds some more defensive depth. I don't think he does anything with the goaltenders, and there is always a chance he brings in a gritty 3rd/4th liner - like a Neil or Roberts type. Neil for a 2nd sounds quite nice, but it might be a tad too little. Neil for Filppula is a complete raping of Holland - and Ottawa would have to throw some serious compensation along with Neil... but I just do not think Holland would trade a roster player, who helped us win a Cup, at the trade deadline - unless it is was a deal he couldn;t refuse - and no one offers those to the Red Wings. I am fine with him doing absolutely nothing, and hope to see guys like Helm and Leino given playing time. Even McCarty can always be effective in the playoffs.

There are live streams to each game if you have internet access - there is a thread here with the site somewhere. I think Holmstrom will be around for a few more years at the very least. It's not like his game relies on speed - and Cicarrelli was certainly able to enjoy a long career. Regardless, I do not think anyone is crazy for wanting to keep Franzen around in favor of Hudler... I just see so much more potential in Hudler, that I am getting the jitters thinking of him tearing it up with some other team. I really think he is a unique talent. The points he has put up, with the minutes and linemates he has had, is truly unique. I just have this same feeling about him that I did when Datsyuk was in his first couple years - just a guy that has nowhere to go but up. I really think we have seen everything there is to see on Franzen, and it is good, but if Hudler comes cheaper or at the same price, there really is no question in my opinion. Finally - Hudler had another point today. Franzen was blanked, again, because he is injured, again.

For one game now?

Yeah, these are good problems to have! Again, Leino is actually older than Hudler -- Hudler is already producing at a similar pace in the NHL (with third line minutes) to what Leino is producing at in the AHL (with first line minutes). When Hudler was years younger than what Leino is now, he was leading the AHL in scoring and set a Griffins franchise record for assists -- Leino is not even close to what Hudler was years ago. And I actually think Leino could be your Franzen guy - he has good hands, goes to the net and can score the deflections and is a much better playmaker. Just does not have the size (his size is more comparable to Holmstrom). Holmstrom is actually a better passer than Franzen - Franzen really sucks at passing. As long as we have Holmstrom, we still have a few years to train a Cleary, Kopecky, Leino, Abdelkader, whomever to get better in front of the net -- though I agree Franzen is second best at it right now. I would love it if Franzen was a power forward - but he simply isn't. He rarely hits and certainly does not fight. He's more like a Robert Lang than a power forward - someone who uses his big body to his advantage, but is not out there punishing anyone like a Shanahan in his hey-day. Franzen may have two inches on Cleary, but he has less than 10 pounds on him. Helm has nowhere near the offensive abilities of Hudler -- or even the potential. Maybe Filppula, but I wouldn't go further than that.

I am just hoping Holland trades Filppula if it is possible to keep them both.

Leino is the only player with even a hope of the talent of Hudler - yet Hudler is already miles better and they are about the same age. Strange thing is Leino also likes to go straight to the net - like Franzen. Did you have anyone else in mind? Datsyuk is the only player currently on the team who has Hudler's playmaking ability. Franzen is a decent two-way forward - and we have a ton of those. He is a good goal scorer, and we already have and may continue to have any of Hossa, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Hudler, Holmstrom, Cleary, Samuelsson. Franzen goes to the front of the net - so does Holmstrom, Cleary, Kopecky and Abdelkader. For me -- it is who is more replaceable between Filppula or Franzen? Welcome to the board!

What talent? You mean when he was playing with Helm and McCarty in the playoffs? With Kopecky and Filppula in the AHL and in the NHL? With Samuelsson and Cleary? With all of 13 minutes a game? On another team, he will be playing with better players than our 3rd and 4th line players and with a lot more minutes. Now, how exactly will he be producing less? Red Wings fans are so deluded some times -- our 3rd and 4th line guys are NOT better than other teams' top lines.

And that assumption is even false. Last year in the playoffs, Hudler scored 3g 5a 8pts at even strength 2g 4a 6pts on the power play

If you look at the offer sheets made since the lockout, most of them have been for someone who has already had that breakout season (Vanek) or fits into the mold of a budding power forward (Penner). Teams still seem to be pretty reluctant to give them, and so far, Hudler does not fit into the typical mold of the player given them.

I dunno -- I think Hudler is a very unique talent out there, and that comparisons to St. Louis are more appropriate than comparisons to your typical 2nd/3rd liner. Every step along the way, it is assumed Hudler will not meet the challange - It was assumed that in the Czech league (which he ended up leading), it was assumed that in the AHL, where the rink was smaller, and the players were bigger, faster and more physical (and he led the league and set a franchise record in assists for the Griffins), it was assumed that for the NHL (where he has done nothing but produce and improve) and it is assumed he will never produce with top line minutes -- well he got those minutes last night (Over 18 minutes - by far the most he has ever had) and he looked flat-out awesome - including scoring a goal-scorer's goal. He distributed the puck effectively, did not cough it up and did not get shoved around. I even saw him backchecking well. He looked like he belongs on that second line, which is really a 1b line. He is consistently one of the top, if not the top player in the NHL for points per minute - each year. When do we start actually giving him the benefit of the doubt?

I was rating Fedorov at his peak, when he showed up to play on a much more consistent basis -- his work ethic was not called into question very often in the early-to-mid 90s.

When you are one of the top 3 players to ever play the game, I have a feeling it is hard to give an unbiased and accurate opinion on those who are obviously beneath you. Yzerman, like Gretzky, is the opposite, and is probably too flattering with his compliments. I have a feeling Gordie, if he is anything like the old men I know, is certainly capable of holding a grudge, and that may have entered into his grades as well.

At peak (if Datsyuk has even reached it), there is no question -- Fedorov's 94 season is one of the best ever, and his string of playoff performances is nearly unrivaled. But Fedorov's peak was relatively short-lived and Datsyuk could definitely surpass him as a better player if he keeps it up.

If I assume Datsyuk is at his peak right now (which he might not even be at yet), here is how I would rate their peaks: Fedorov: ----------------------------------------------- 1. Self-devotion.........................8/10 2. Mobility..................................10/10 3. Tactics...................................9/10 4. Puck tackling.........................8/10 5. Aggressiveness.....................8/10 6. PP-PK.....................................10/10 7. Affective tolerance.................10/10 ----------------------------------------------- Total: 62 points. Datsyuk: ------------------------------------------------ 1. Self-devotion.........................9/10 2. Mobility..................................8/10 3. Tactics...................................9/10 4. Puck tackling..........................9/10 5. Aggressiveness......................8/10 6. PP-PK.....................................8/10 7. Affective tolerance.................8/10 ------------------------------------------------ Total: 59 points. I have no idea what "affective tolerance" is, but I used it as "everything else" because at his peak, Fedorov could take over a game like Datsyuk is not able to. I think Datsyuk will have a better career, but Fedorov was just out of this world at his peak.

I agree they will try and sign Franzen before Hudler, but we are not comparing apples to apples. Franzen is a UFA and Hudler is a RFA -- so it makes a lot of sense to deal with the UFA first and get a handle on what he wants. You have a much higher chance of keeping an RFA and more options. If they were both UFAs, it would be interesting to see who they signed first. What a great game for Hudler last night - he really looks good out there with Hossa. Could we finally see him regularly on the second line? He is more valuable there than Filppula, when Franzen and Holmstrom come back. Playing Hudler with Franzen and Hossa makes a lot of sense - we see he has a lot of compatibility with Hossa, and those two play off each other well. Franzen is not a passer, but is perfect for guys like Hossa and Hudler who can either shoot well while Franzen is creating havoc in front of the net, and he is also a great option to pass to. I really hope we see a line of Franzen/Hudler - Hudler/Franzen - Hossa. I agree that if Hossa signs, Hudler is easily more important than Franzen -- but I would love to see Franzen and Hudler both signed, and the only remote way to do so would be to trade Filppula. Have any of you noticed Leino going straight to the net, all the time? His presence makes me question the value of Franzen a bit more, as well.

If you give Datsyuk the even strength and power play minutes of Malkin, Crosby and Ovechkin his points are much better, even if we assume he is still concentrating on his defensive play as well. Let Datsyuk focus much more on offense all the time, and I do not even think it is close. It is a joke he was not voted 1st team all star at the end of last year (Malkin, with only 9 more points and Thornton, with actually less points, were voted ahead of him).

My biggest problem with this statement is "puck distribution". Datsyuk is obviously an awesome playmaker - but who else really is? Zetterberg is good, but I'm not sure if he is as good as Hudler. Hossa is pretty good. Filppula is decent and so is Cleary. Leino shows promise. Draper and Maltby are Ok. Samuelsson is ok to horrible, depending on the situation. Franzen is down there with Holmstrom and Kopecky - guys that just are not very good passers at all. I think Hudler is so important because he is a legitimate elite playmaker, which we only have one of (two if you count Zetterberg) amongst our forwards. The fact he has an awesome shot is just a bonus. Franzen at 30 is at or close to his peak... Hudler at 25 still has a ways to go.

Franzen has better size, is a faster skater, is a better net front presence and is better defensively than Hudler. Hudler has better offensive instincts, is a better playmaker, is younger, is a better skater (like Datsyuk is a better skater than Draper, but not faster), puts forth more of a consistent effort and will most likely be cheaper. Hudler is 4-5 years younger than Franzen and has significantly outproduced him with less minutes every year. I flip-flop back and forth between which one I think is more important to the future of the team. Right now, I side with Hudler, as I think he has more room for improvement and will be cheaper. I also think Hudler is more comparable to Franzen in terms of value than he is to Filppula.

http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=64511 Filppula has hands of stone only slightly better than Draper. He completely misses the net more often than not

Exactly the opposite is usually true. Defense can be taught, but not good hands.

I think not even Bowman would be able to win with a team full of Drapers. I think more correctly, Bowman believed in balance, and this team already has a plethora of defensively responsible forwards.

I view Hudler as more important to keep than even Franzen (especially if we are able to keep Hossa). He's outproduced Franzen every year, is younger with more potential and has not been injured as much... and will most likely be a lot cheaper. Hossa>Hudler>Franzen>Filppula>Samuelsson In terms of value for perceived salary.

I am not happy if they lose Hudler, especially if Filppula could be traded instead. Hudler is already more offensively potent than Franzen... how much better will he be in a few years and with more ice time?

I am always suprised to find fans from other teams for the most part hate Ken and Mickey: 1) For being homers 2) For being arrogant 3) For Mickey rambling on about the old days One funny post I remember was someone said how they missed a call because they were too busy talking about how they wore cod fish in their hockey pants back in the day to keep warm. That actually made me laugh. Anyways, I love it when Mickey tells an old-time anecdote, personally -- compared to Pierre and Eddie, he rarely lets it interfere with the pace of a game.

More players have serious, life threatening injuries from the razor blades they wear on the bottom of their shoes than from fighting. I propose hockey is to be played in slippers from this day henceforth. The same can be said for the hard ice, hard walls and wooden sticks - hockey should be played in slippers, with padded sticks in a giant, inflatable arena.