egroen

I would bet Zetterberg has a no-trade clause, at least for the first half of his contract. Franzen, Hudler and Helm are all natural centers - Detroit is definitely not lacking of viable centers. I am no longer above thinking Bettman might create an arbitrary rule out of thin air that inherently favors one team over another.

You're right, it is completely "stupid" to look at the past and project it into the future. I sometimes am in awe of my own ability to wipe my own a$$ some days. In only 4 years, Franzen has already racked up more missed games due to injury than Hossa has in his entire 10 year career. Only a moron would think because of Franzen's style of play and history of injuries, he might continue to be a higher injury risk (like a Holmstrom) than someone like Hossa, with his style of play and history of a lack of injuries. Please excuse me, as I have to go and figure out how to jam a pencil into my ear far enough to scratch this headache you are giving me.

It is a much safer bet to sign Hossa long term than Franzen (or even Zetterberg, for that matter). Hossa has next to no history of injuries. Franzen, especially, has issues each year.

I think Hudler is far more likey to be retained for closer to that $3m than Franzen. There is also a good chance the cap goes up next year - between 2% and 5%. If Holland can sign Franzen and Hudler while keeping Filppula - that would be great. If he could sign Hossa and Hudler by trading Filppula - I think that is even better.

I think Babcock and Holland did not want Hossa to be just thrown on the second line without the benefit of either Zetterberg or Datsyuk, at least right away. Now that Hossa has meshed with the team, and shown he can produce with the likes of Franzen/Hudler/Filppula/Samuelsson/Leino, and has the confidence to continue doing so, I am all for keeping the Euro Twins together -- they are just too dominant together, and the Wings are certainly not sacrificing the second line to have them together. I had a feeling we would start seeing them together towards the nend of the regular season and I think it has been long overdue.

Mike Green is literally Washington's 4th or 5th option on the penalty kill. That does not scream good defense to me. If I was voting, it would take a lot of points to outweigh someone who was a #1 or #2 PK option for their team. If Lidstrom had 60 points and Green had 80, I would still go with Lidstrom -- now if Green had 90 pts, then I start seriously considering him. Unfortunately, I do not have a vote, and we see someone like Phaneuf get runner-up last year.

Hudler is a better scorer and playmaker than Filppula - a lot better. Filppula is definitely better defensively, but on a team of defensively responsible forwards, that is facing the impending loss of 2-3 offensively gifted forwards, I think Hudler easily has more value for this team. I like Filppula a lot and think he has a lot to offer both now and into the future, but I have a hard time valuing him higher than Hossa, Franzen or Hudler. If trading Filppula means you can keep two of those three (or even all of them), plus whatever you get for Filppula, it is an easy decision in my mind.

The problem for Chara is a lot of Boston fans think Wideman is having a better year. I don't think there are many who watch the Red Wings every game and think Rafalski is having a better year than Lidstrom. Could some of the votes get split between Wideman and Chara? Sort of like I bet some Selke votes were split beween Datsyuk and Zetterberg last year.

Both Hudler and Filppula were born in '84 and Hudler has outperformed Filppula every year in both the AHL and NHL, and usually with less minutes. How and when is Filppula ever going to be better than him? When Filppula is playing 30 minutes a game and Hudler is still at 13 minutes?

Green needs to put up Coffey-like numbers to win the Norris, though he might get a nomination just on his points alone.

Gordie Howe, alone, is the only Red Wing who is inarguably a better all-time player than Red Kelly. I would rank Lidstrom and perhaps Sawchuk or Lindsay ahead of him, but that is it. Yzerman brought more intangibles to the team, but Kelly will easily go down as a better all-time player. Red Kelly was a much better player than Abel and Delvecchio, and arguably better than Sawchuk and Lindsay, but for some reason his number has not been retired. The Detroit dynasty was able to win a Cup without Sawchuk (1950); they won without Abel (1954, 1955); they could win it even without Howe (1950). Only Kelly and Lindsay were the constants. However, the Wings had a great team in the late 1940s (including Lindsay) but couldn’t win their first Cup until Kelly emerged as an all-star defenseman in 1950. His ability to control both ends of the ice put them over the top. He was a Red Wings captain for two years (after Lindsay and before Howe) and was a 6-time 1st team All-Star (2-time 2nd Team). Kelly was easily the second-best Detroit defenseman ever, behind only Lidstrom (and not behind him by much). Red Kelly finished in the top three in Hart voting three times (1951, 1953, 1954) as well as a 4th in '56. Extrememly impressive for a defenseman. No other Wing (aside from Howe obviously) made it to the top three during the dynasty years, even once. In fact, Red Kelly alone had as many top-ten finishes as Lindsay and Sawchuk combined. He was easily the second-best defenseman of his generation and a lot closer to Doug Harvey than Harvey’s 7-1 Norris trophies would have you think. Kelly's reputation is hurt because the Norris trophy came into existence halfway through his prime. He was a unanimous first-team all-star in the three years immediately prior to the creation of the Norris, finishing immediately ahead of Harvey twice. Kelly is the equivalent of a four-time Norris winner (with two second-place finishes), which closes the gap a bit on Harvey's seven trophies. He was easily the best offensive defenseman of his generation, distancing himself from Harvey, Gadsby, and all the others. He towered above his peers, leading all blueliners in scoring five years in a row (with three more top-three finishes). Kelly is also the best goal-scoring defenseman of his generation by a wide margin. During the 1950s, he scored 145 goals, nearly double what his closest competition accomplished (Gadsby 77, Harvey 57, Pronovost 55). Not even Bobby Orr could match Kelly's streak of leading all defense in goal-scoring eight years in a row. Most impressively, Kelly accomplished something that was unheard of during his era: he cracked the top ten in scoring three times (1951, 1953, 1954, peaking at 6th place in the league) and was in the top ten in assists five times, peaking at 4th place. His defensive game can be compared with Lidstrom's: very cerebral. He relied more on positioning than physical play, though ironically he was a golden gloves boxer. He was a 4-time Lady Byng winner, back when that trophy meant a lot more than it means today. The only reason I can think his number is not retired is because he left the team on bad terms with Jack Adams. Adams forced him to play with a broken ankle in 1959, and to keep it a secret. When the Wings missed the playoffs, Kelly made a flippant remark to the media, “"I don't know, it might have been the ankle." to account for his poor play and an irate Jack Adams immediately shipped him off to Toronto (where he won another 4 Stanley Cups as a center). But Ted Lindsay had an even worse relationship with Jack Adams than the low-key and humble Kelly ever did; and of course Lindsay has his place in the rafters.

Regarding Hudler: First -- Someone has to make an offer sheet before we get anything for Hudler, and that is not something you just plan on. Offer sheets are not terribly common. Second -- Leino and Hudler are aproximately the same age. They are both producing at the same rate except Leino is doing so in the AHL with 1st line minutes and Hudler is doing it in the NHL with 3rd line minutes. When Hudler was years younger than what Leino is now, he was third in the AHL in points; he set a Griffins franchise record for assists in a year. Leino is not even close to the player Hudler is yet and anyone who thinks Leino can just "replace" Hudler is out of their gourd.

President Chelios?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?p...809playersurvey

I would never want Avery playing for the Red Wings again, but I have no problem with him being in the league. For all the controversey surrounding him, saying "sloppy seconds" was his first suspension. He is not a dirty player and is not out to injure anyone, he just runs his mouth.

I think it matters a lot more when the player is your goalie or quarterback... you want these guys to be a bit cocky and definitely very confident. Legace was a lot like Joey Harrington.

He has such a horrible, defeatist attitude - I am so glad he is no longer with the Wings.

Yzerman and Lemieux did not accomplish nearly as much in their careers, but if anyone else deserves it, is is Gordie Howe. I think it had a lot to do with the number 99 as well, no one else really wore it and it was instantly identifiable as Gretzky. The Rocket and Bobby Hull wore #9, amongst several other Hall of Famers -- not everyone thinkos of Howe as #9.

Yes. Maybe a smidgeon below Lidstrom defensively, but he also played a physical game. If Lidstrom played during Bourque's time, Lidstrom would have a lot less Norrises as well -- there were a ton of HoF defensemen in the 80s and 90s - not so much right now. Bourque's number of 1st and 2nd Team All Star selections is overwhelming and rivaled only by Gordie Howe.

Though not all 2nd round picks are created equal We don't need Kaberle, we already have Rafalski.

I think you can get Neil for a 2nd or 3rd round pick and a prospect.

A lot would put Shore, Harvey and Bourque ahead of Lidstrom. Some still have Potvin ahead of him.

That would be an absolute steal for Atlanta.

Do people really feel like this about Gretzky, as a player? Wow. It's rather sad for me to see probably the greatest hockey player ever trashed on a hockey message board. So the guy did not fight - so what? Despite Gretzky's superior talent, he worked his ass off when he played, unlike someone like Mario Lemeuix who coasted on talent his first few years and smoked two packs a day. Say what you will about the era, and deflate the points if you want, but the fact was, despite everyone scoring high in that era, Gretzky was head and shoulders above everyone. In some years, he was scoring as much as 40% higher than his closest competition. To put that into perspective, as great a year as Ovechkin had last year, he was only 5% higher than the competition.

Schneider is also an injury waiting to happen.