egroen

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Everything posted by egroen

  1. egroen

    Bettman suspends Lidstrom, Datsyuk 1-game each

    At least we have more confirmation Crosby is a saint: http://www.torontosun.com/sports/hockey/20...121281-sun.html I want to barf.
  2. egroen

    Bettman suspends Lidstrom, Datsyuk 1-game each

    They are injured. Period. Either that, or the three-time Lady Byng winner, captain of the team and the entire Detroit Red Wings organization and it doctors are liars.
  3. egroen

    Bettman suspends Lidstrom, Datsyuk 1-game each

    I can not believe Bettman wants to give a black eye to Niklas Lidstrom and the three-time reigning Lady Byng winner. I am really pissed. These guys would go their entire careers without a suspension, until this.
  4. egroen

    Bettman suspends Lidstrom, Datsyuk 1-game each

    Brodeur missed the event last year because he had "family reasons". He was not suspended (despite what some believe). The All Star game was January 27, 2008 and Brodeur played in net for the Devils their first game back, losing to Pittsburgh on January 29th. http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/boxscore?gameId=280129011
  5. egroen

    Bettman suspends Lidstrom, Datsyuk 1-game each

    http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=510180 Paul Kelly saying the NHLPA can do nothing about it.
  6. egroen

    Bettman suspends Lidstrom, Datsyuk 1-game each

    The NHLPA lawyers will eat this alive. Apparently the NHL invited at least one more Red Wing after Datsyuk and Lidstrom could not make it -- will whomever that person is be suspended as well? It really infuriates me that Bettman is treating someone like Datsyuk and especially Lidstrom like they are pampered prima donnas. Lidstrom has really earned this sort of disrespect.
  7. egroen

    Bettman suspends Lidstrom, Datsyuk 1-game each

    Why does Bettman have to do this publicly? That is my question. Man, it really makes me hate him. So if Datsyuk and Lidstrom attend now, Bettman has really thrown his weight around and shown these guys "what for!'. Yeah, Datsyuk and Lidstrom are really deserving of being publiclly humiliated this way, especially Lidstrom, who has been to close to ten of these now. What the hell, Napolean?
  8. egroen

    League cancels All-Star game

    I spoke too soon. Bettman already has the answer: The way to make players really excited to attend the All Star game is TO FORCE THEM TO GO!. Brilliant!
  9. egroen

    Zetterberg's Contract

    Good/Nogood/whomever -- The cap is not going down next season, revenues are up as much as 5%, and I think factoring in a 2% increase is conservative. It is the year after they are more worried about (when we happen to have Lidstrom's salary come off the books). I can easily drop Franzen from your lineup and afford Zetterberg, without going against the cap. Who would you prefer, Zetterberg or Franzen? $7.1 for ten years scares the hell out of me, I'm not going to lie. I really hope it is for 7 years.
  10. egroen

    League cancels All-Star game

    Unless they really do something to increase the value and excitement of the game, I only see this trend continuing.
  11. egroen

    Leino

    I'll give a quick word on Leino -- Someone compared him to Hudler, and while they both may be offensive secialists, Leino is not even comparable to Hudler at this point. Hudler, at a younger age, was dominating the AHL and finished in the top 3 for points. He also set the Griffins all time record for assists in a single season. He is putting up more points in the NHL, at a similar age, as Leino is putting up in the AHL. Leino is barely leading the Griffins in scoring and is not even close to the leaders in the AHL. Leino is a far cry from Hudler. If you were implying we could just swap Hudler for a cheaper Leino and expect the same scoring, you are far off.
  12. egroen

    Datsyuk or Fedorov

    I hear you... but I just do not want my position simplified. I do not rank Cheechoo very high, because I do think consistency is important - same goes for Naslund and Bertuzzi. If someone dominates for only a few years, and then falls off the face of the earth (see Lidros and Mogilny) I don't think they should be getting into the HoF either. I do try and take it all into context. I'm not going to simplify your position by saying, "Oh, well you must think Cujoe is better than Hasek, right???". If Gartner or Ciccarelli happened to have played their long careers outside of the early 80s to the early 90s, I'm not so sure we would even be talking about them getting into the Hall of Fame.
  13. egroen

    Datsyuk or Fedorov

    How the hell did it not turn into a fighting or Crosby debate, is a better question
  14. egroen

    Datsyuk or Fedorov

    I think both are important, but I tend to place more weight on peak performance over consistency. For instance, take two players' careers: Player 1: 80 pts 100 pts 100 pts 100 pts 100 pts 100 pts 80 pts 80 pts 60 pts 60 pts Player 2: 80 pts ''90 pts 120 pts '140 pts 120 pts ''80 pts 70 pts 70 pts 40 pts 50 pts Both these players put up the exact same points in their careers, but Player 2 obviously had a much higher peak, where he was one of the best players in the world. Player 1 was a consistently good player year-in-and-year-out, which is indeed impressive, but I view Player 2 as the better player. Someone like Brodeur (or even Cujoe) has a ton more wins than Hasek, but I think Hasek was a much better goaltender and would rank him better all-time. Ciccarelli played in by far the highest scoring era of all time in the NHL. I take that into account, and prefer to look at how he did against his peers from the same era -- and while a 50+ goal season nowadays would put you in the running for the scoring title, it barely got you in the top 5 at that time. I do not consider Gartner as impressive as someone like Fedorov either. You yourself pointed out what the scoring was like back then (and Ogrodnick is a perfect example): 85-86: Wayne Gretzky was the scroring leader with 215pts. Neil Broten was 10th with 105. 86-87: Gretzky lead the league with 183pts and 7 players had over 100 pts. 87-88: Mario Lemieux won the scoring title with 168pts while Michel Goulet finished 10th with 106. 88-89: Lemieux again with 199pts and 9 players had over 100pts. 89-90: Gretzky took back the scoring lead with 142pts. Adam Oates finished 10th with 102pts. 90-91: Gretzky again with 163pts with Steve Larmer 10th with 101. 91-92: Lemieux storms back with 131pts and again, 9 players had over 100pts. 92-93: Lemieux had 160pts and with 123pts, Mark Recchi finished 10th! So Ciccarelli scoring a lot of goals during that time period is impressive, and the fact he was able to grind it out for so many years is impressive... but he placed in the top ten in goals only twice in his entire career; that is not very impressive. At least Gartner placed in the top ten in goals five times, though even Gartner only finished as high as 10th in points in a single season. Neither one of them was ever considered one of the best in the league at their position. They just were fortunate to enjoy long careers during the highest scoring era of the NHL ever. Gartner has more goals than Steve Yzerman, but I do not think they are even close to being on the same level -- Yzerman obviously had a much greater peak, brought defensive play and has 3 Cups. I rate Robitaille and Shanahan higher than Gartner because they have consistent goal scoring as well, but at least dominated their positions over a period of time. Selanne has a carrer of consistent goal scoring, but has scored over 60 and even over 70 goals in a season - so even though he has a lot less career goals, I would rank Selanne over Gartner. Neely dominated his position and scored 50 goals in only 49 games once. I rank Neely higher than Gartner. I understand Gartner got in because of consistency, but he is truly a unique example. Ciccarelli scored over 30 goals 11 times. Very impressive, but Gartner did it 17 times. That is why he is in the Hall of Fame (and his speed and character). To put that into context: Kurri had 11-30 goal seasons, Messier had 11-30 goal seasons, Gretzky had 14-30 goal seasons, Brett hull has 14-30 goal seasons, Hawerchuk had 10-30 goal seasons, Lafleur had 7-30 goal seasons. If I were voting on the Hall of Fame comittee, I'm not sure I would vote for Gartner or Neely, but I would definitely vote in Neely before him. Both guys are well ahead of Ciccarelli. I agree - I think it is very impressive. I just don't know if it is "Hall of Fame" impressive. I flip-flop on Osgood for this very same reason. Osgood piling on the wins alone would not have me vote him in the HoF -- but the fact he was a starter on two Cups, picked up his play significantly in the playoffs (enough to be a legitimate candidate for the Conn Smythe) and was a runner-up for the Vezina as well as a being voted a team all-star would be what bumps him significantly in my mind.
  15. egroen

    Datsyuk or Fedorov

    I think I remember they were asking for a roster player, in addition to draft pick(s), but who it was was not named. Good guesses would be Filppula, Hudler or Kronwall.
  16. egroen

    Datsyuk or Fedorov

    I had read it was much higher than what they ended up taking from Washington. That they actually still considered it actually shows what high regard they still felt for him - and not the opposite.
  17. egroen

    Russian Five vs. Swedish Five

    Russian 5, we saw them all play together and their sum was clearly better than their parts -- A Swedish 5 we have not really seen on the ice. I'll take the Russian 5 that we knew was able to play together and dominate both ends of the ice.
  18. egroen

    Datsyuk or Fedorov

    I agree! I always got the sense Holland wanted Fedorov back, and was willing to pay a steep price for it. Bowman would have wanted Fedorov back, there is no question in my mind about that. Ilitch - I don't know - I think he was very fond of Sergei, but at the same time may have felt the most betrayed by him. Devellano and Nill? Devallano strikes me as a more unforgiving type than Nill, but also more calculative. These guys may have gone either way as well. Yzerman? Yeeeah, I think he would have felt Sergei was more trouble than he was worth.
  19. egroen

    Datsyuk or Fedorov

    Ultimately, I guess it just depends on what you value more -- Peak performance vs. career numbers. I tend to value peak performance more, but I still like to take overall careers into consideration. Guys like Francis, Gilmour, Sundin, Ciccarelli, Andreychuk and to throw a goalie in there, Cujoe (or even Osgood), all have incredible numbers over their long careers and that is a remarkable feat by itself... but I think that alone does not distinguish you as one of the greatest of all time. Ciccarelli, in my opinion should not even be uttered in the same breath as Sergei Fedorov. For all the goals Dino scored over his career, he never once was in the top 3 in the league in goals for a single season, and only finished in the top 10 twice. He has never been considered for any major award and he has never even earned a 1st or 2nd team All Star. That just does not "wow" me. I don't think Neely or Ciccarelli belong in the HoF, but Neely still has more 50+ goal seasons than Ciccarelli and was a much more dominant player at right wing than Dino could ever hope to be. Tackng on an extra 8 mediocore seasons for Ciccarelli does not make his accomplishments better than Neely, IMO.
  20. egroen

    Datsyuk or Fedorov

    I think, Opie, you are seriously underrestimating how much the HHoF values the playoffs. Out of all the guys mentioned in our discussion (Shanahan, Selanne, Sundin, Cicarrelli) Fedorov not only has the most individual hardware, the most Cups, but he has BY FAR the most dominating playoff performances. Combined, these guys have one single post-season where they scored 20 points, and Fedorov did it 4 times, in a row! Fedorov also has the unique advantage over these guys in that he alone, for however brief it was, was considered the best player in the world. No player has ever won the Hart and the Selke in one season. Sundin, lacking a Cup and any major hardware whatsoever, may never make it in. Selanne may have officially punched his ticket when he won with the Ducks, but prior to that was primarily known as a playoff choker. Shanahan is in for sure, but not just because of the regular season - 3 Cups is the icing on his cake. Cicarrelli may never make it in. No Cups. No hardware and a jackass to boot.
  21. egroen

    Datsyuk or Fedorov

    You meant Jagr? Seriously? Jagr definitely gets in ahead of Fedorov. But again just look at the competition and you will see Fedorov will easily be a first ballot as well.
  22. egroen

    Leino

    Leino actually makes more money than Kopecky, and Holland has obviously been hording as much salary cap space as he can (evident in playing Meech all over the place, and keeping an injured Osgood as the backup goalie). I believe Holland wants as much cap space as possible to him for the remaining season - whether that is for a deadline acquisition, or to get the GR boys some time... I don't know.
  23. egroen

    Zetterberg's Contract

    Signing Zetterberg does not mean Hudler and Franzen are lost... where do you get that?
  24. egroen

    Datsyuk or Fedorov

    How many players play at a HOF caliber for more than 4-6 years? You're getting into top 25 players of all-time territory now (Yzerman barely has that many HOF caliber seasons), which I am not claiming Fedorov is. He is a top 100 player of all-time, however, and deserving of a first ballot HHoF entry (unless literally all of the above guys retire the same year as him). Shanahan certainly was not even close to HOF caliber for more than 4-6 years -- especially considering in his strongest category, goals, he was only in the top 5 of the league once in his entire career (5th in 1994). He has never been amongst the top 5 in the league in points. I could argue Shanahan has not had one single season of HOF caliber in his entire career, he has just had a lot of "good" seasons which will get him in.
  25. egroen

    Datsyuk or Fedorov

    The Rangers essentialy washed their hands of Shanahan, and he had trouble signing anywhere until only recently (though admittedly, he was probably only seriously considering East Coast teams). Fedorov is still earning $4m a year while Shanahan accepted $800k. If you give Fedorov an extra 10 points a year to account for his superior defensive value, Shanahan has only outperformed 4 out of the last 8 years (especially as Fedorov has had injury problems)... you have to factor Fedorov's defense and PK into the equation somehow. Fedorov still plays the full ice especially as opposed to Shanahan. When Fedorov retires - consider the competition he is going to get. You might have the older guys like M. Howe, Gilmour, Oates and Cicarrelli still knocking on the door - and Feds beats all of them. He beats Bure, Shanahan, Selanne, Sundin, Zubov -- all guys who might be retiring around the same time. The only guys we might see elgible for the HHoF at around the same time that beat him for sure are Lidstrom, Jagr, Brodeur, Sakic and Forsberg --- and 4 out of those 5 guys would all have to retire the exact same year as Fedorov for him to not get in on a first ballot. Oh - and as for retiring of jerseys -- Sawchuk, Abel and literally Howe did not retire as Red Wings.