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Below is a very realistic team for next year. I have rounded a bit, so these numbers are not exact. The salary cap this year is $56.7 million, and I have it staying exactly the same... though it might actually go down. There is a very good chance Hossa, Franzen and Hudler could all be gone next year. Hossa is guaranteed to be gone. Holland has shown he is reluctant to trade away recently signed players (meaning Filppula and Lilja will probably stay), and guys like Cleary, Stuart and Rafalski (where posters will often attempt to save money) have no-trade clauses. If Babcock is asked whom he would prefer, I am sure he would pick Sammy over Hudler ten out of ten times. 7.45 Zetterberg 6.70 Datsyuk 3.00 Filppula 3.00 Samuelsson 2.80 Cleary 2.25 Holmstrom 1.60 Draper 0.90 Maltby 0.90 Abdelkader 0.80 Kopecky 0.60 Helm 0.50 McCarty/Downey 30.50 7.45 Lidstrom 6.00 Rafalski 3.75 Stuart 3.00 Kronwall 1.25 Lilja 0.90 Eriksson 0.65 Lebda/Chelios 0.50 Meech/Chelios 23.50 1.40 Osgood 0.70 Howard/Conklin 2.10 $56.1 million = 2009/10 Salary Not a bad team, but far from what it is this year. I would prefer to see him trade Filppula and let Sammy go in order to keep Franzen (and sign Leino), but I just have my doubts that would happen. Holland is more likely to let a free agent go than to trade a recently signed player.

The reductiuon in salaries following the lockout was a one-time thing, so if the cap lowers, GMs are left to deal with it on their own. When Datsyuk signed in April of 2007, the cap was at $44 million, IE. his salary was 15.2% of the overall salary cap. Since then, Zetterberg has accomplished more than Datsyuk at the time of Datsyuk's signing (Conn Smythe, nominated for the Selke and over 90 points). 15.2% of today's salary ($56.7 million) is $8.6 million -- given Zetterberg's greater accomplishments currently, anything under $9 million from Holland would be considered a Home-Town Discount. And some of you think he will sign for $6.7 million??? I swear, there are going to be a lot of disappointed fans when these contracts finally get inked out and we see how many players leave. So many fans live in a fairey-tale land.

I'm still wondering why the Red Wings do not retire Red Kelly's number -- one of the best defenseman ever, and we had him - take credit for it! Toronto retired his number and Kelly mainly played center for them!

I can see Holland signing Samuelsson for $3 million (though I hope he does not) -- he gave Cleary a no-trade clause and $2.8 million, afterall, and Samuelsson has outproduced Cleary -- add in the fact that Babcock wants to have his children, and you have to figure Sammy has some nice bargaining power. If you think he will sign for $1.75m, fine, stranger things have happened. I am more interested in seeing opinions on a full 22/23 man roster for 2010, and how it might or might not work. What does the large hometown discount of $1.75m for Samuelsson allow you to do with the roster? If all you feel like is arguing about Samuelsson's worth and flinging insults, kindly start your own thread and let the feces fly.

How do you feel about Holland paying $2.8 million for Cleary along with a no-trade clause? Obviously you must think he is f_cking idiot right? Because Samuelsson has outperformed him... and Samuelsson is worth nowhere near that, right?

Okeedokee... that was certainly a roundabout way of saying you can't put together a feasible roster. You are the one who came into this thread huffing and puffing that you could do it... are you admitting to failure? It's ok, we all make mistakes from time to time. If Holland cares about Babcock's opinion at all, who do you think the Wings will sign - Samuelsson or Hudler? I hope it is Hudler, but I have a feeling I am wrong... and you probably lose both of them if Franzen is somehow signed. Your backpedaling would be embarrasing if you had the intelligence to recognize it. And here's my prediction: the cap in 2010 will be no higher than it is now.

Your insults have been entertaining, but I am still waiting for your full roster....

That was not an A game from the Sharks but the Wings took advantage of it like they should have and never let their skate up from tha Shark's neck. Awesome, awesome game. Man, I feel great.

Yeah, Lidstrom on a year-to-year contract would be awful handy right now. If Babcock got creative with Zetterberg and Franzen and tried front-loading them he might be able to get them down to those numbers. The risk is they have to be pretty long term to really give a cap benefit. $1.5 is an absolute steal for Samuelsson, as he could get over $3 million as a free agent. I'd love to see one of Hudler or Sammy take a deal like that. I am flat out in favor of trading Filppula for that $3 million per year relief.

I see you chose to insult me instead of actually trying to make a viable 22-23 man roster for under the existing salary cap. Samuelsson can play on all lines, plays on the power play, is defensively responsible and is a big body. He is currently 6th on the team in scoring, had 40 pts in 73 games last year and 13 pts in the playoffs. He has outproduced Filppula and Cleary, who are both making around $3 million dollars. Now what is more realistic, Sammy getting $1.75 million or $3 million? All his agent has to do is play a few soundbites of Babcock gushing over everything Samuelsson does... I guess I fail to see the humor in my OP, or how it only exists in fantasy land. I tried to take a very objective look at the Red Wings situation next year, similar players salaries across the league and even included some nice hometown discounts for Holland. As I stated, that would be how I could see the roster looking next year, but Holland has been known to work some magic and anything better than that i will be thrilled. But keeping all of Zetterberg, Franzen, Hudler, Filppula and Samuelsson is utterly impossible.

Lidstrom is a +11 on a team that is -2 at even strength. That is outstanding. Him having an "off" year defensively still ranks him as one of the best defensive defenseman in the NHL. Of the defensemen that are currently outscoring him only Souray and Blake are top options for their teams on the penalty kill and none of them have as large of a +/- differential as Lidstrom compared to their team. Most of the guys ahead of him in points should need a Coffey-like year in order to beat Lidstrom.

Yes, Rafalski and Stuart (for the first couple years) have no-trade clauses.

Without even attempting to poke holes in your serious under evaluation of players' worths (Hudler at $1.25????) I'll just point out that you have at most 20 players there and need at least two more. I posted Abdelkader's and Eriksson's actual salaries - you can not just wave a wand and reduce them.

Heh. So many parents let the TV raise their kids and then act betrayed, shocked and outraged when their child learns something they shouldn't.

Lidstrom is Detroit's number one penalty killer and number one defensive defenseman. Considering Detroit's cruddy even strength play, Lidstrom's +/- is outstanding. Boyle and Weber do not even play on the penalty kill. How many points should they need to beat Lidstrom by to overcome their average at best defensive skills?

No, it will be impossible. You can keep Zetterberg and Franzen if you trade Filppula and let Samuelsson and Hudler go. Or you can keep Zetterberg, Filppula, one of Samuelsson or Hudler and let Franzen go. http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=54475

Turco hopes Avery can become a "productive citizen"... LOL!

Conklin is obviously near-sighted.

That goal in OT was a thing of beauty with Datsyuk and Lidstrom. Just picture-perfect.

It would be an awfully boring message board if it was full of happy fans patting each other on the back and extolling the virtues of the organization (though deservedly so, there is plenty of that). In all honesty, the complaining on this site is probably at an all-time low (I was a lurker for years before ever registering). You don't see too many posts nowadays calling for the coach and Holland to be fired any more... and they were quite common for years. And if you think Wings fans are bad, check out forums of other teams... I think it is much worse. Give the Wings a few years of early-round playoff exits again and you'll think back to this as the golden age of undieing fun support.

I have been likeing Melrose more and more over the past year; though that does not make him a good coach. They were dumb in hiring him and even worse in their firing of him. I kind of feel bad for the fans over there, to go from a Cup winner to such a dismal offering so quickly.

Hudler looks like he is standing on his tippy-toes! I met Datsyuk back in '03 at a bar. He was playing pool with a few friends, and I was the only one in the bar that recognized him at the time (I was already a huge fan). His english was terrible then, but he listened attentively as I blathered on about what a fan of his I was, signed my hat and hoped with me that Larionov would be back that year. A floozey at the bar later hit on him and he did not give her the time of day, but was still polite. Oh- and I have a russian friend who went out to eat at a russian restaurant with a friend and was invited over to join Fedorov and Kozlov. Fedorov ended up sticking them with the entire bill and stated it would be an honor for them to buy his meal (about $600). There is more to that one but I won't post it here (they didn't pay it)....

That was painful to read.

I'm all for burying Franzen in the lineup until the playoffs, just to bring down his UFA value

I have no problem mixing it up a bit and hope it continues. I especially like the defensive pairings to see how that will work.