egroen

The grind line had two excellent shifts and one in particular last night where they looked really good, like it was ten years ago. Crashing into everyone, disrupting play and any momentum the other team was getting. Last night Maltby and McCarty played fine, despite their lack of minutes. I see next year being the end of the line for them, but they were definitely not a liability last night.

There really have not been a lot of soft goals let in - I agree with the posts above that the defense has definitely not been up to snuff and Ozzie has had the misfortune of seeing a lot of crazy rebounds and redirects. Oh, and he was sweet in that shootout last night -- just super cool and calm... I love to see that!

Samuelsson's dive last night was pretty shameful, but all-in-all he is having a great season. It will be interesting how much of a raise he wants next year.

I immediately thought of the Islanders with all the players Sillinger traded away for peanuts. Though the Wings and Montreal would still be very high on the list.

I agree for the most part...I think it usually goes to the forward who has the most outstanding season, and possible a goalie but rarely a defenseman. It does help if that player is "doing it alone" ie. Malkin last year w/o Crosby, Ovechkin and Iginla were also by far and away the best players on their team. But if someone puts up Mario or Wayne like numbers, or even Ovechkin from last year - you're right, they are going to win the Hart no matter how good or bad the team they are on is. Hart and especially Pearson voting is definitely not a science, though!

Stevie Y, You are aware that Jagr had 149 pts in 82 games and Lemieux had his 161 pts in 70 games?

Great! Let's sign him up then, and who cares if he whines occasionaly when he is not a captain or assistant captain? Chelios does it every game!

In the highly improbable world where the Pens were offering Crosby to Detroit, what makes it necessary for Detroit to make Crosby a captain right away, if ever?

Lol! As I was saying, not even Wings fans can agree on who was/is more valuable... I have both Lidstrom and Datsyuk ahead of Zetterberg last season!

It certainly is, especially when one has a clearly better season than the other, as in the cases you listed, plus Malkin and Crosby last year. But is that the case between Datsyuk, Zettberg and Lidstrom last year? You won't even find close to a 100% consensus amongst Red Wings fans, let alone media throughout the rest of the league. If one of those three clearly had a better season than the rest, I have a feeling that one would have finaled for the Hart last year.

They should be in consideration, but by no means does that mean they are going to run away with an award for the "player judged to be the most valuable to his team". Both Pavel and Hank placed in the top ten in votes, which is not bad, especially considering Lidstrom was also 4th. The Wings are lucky enough to have three of the best overall players in the league right now, but because of that, it is easy to see why a single one of them is not winning the "Most Valuable" trophy.

What does the Hart have to do with that?

Heh... from that round table discussion with the Wings management last year, it sounds like Mike Illitch agrees with those people. Which I love, because I picture him as an average Red Wings fan getting pissed off at the officials and throwing his popcorn. I wish that interview was still around (I think it was from the Det News).

Look at other young phenoms from other sports and how they handled themselves, and I would say Crosby has done a commendable job, more than commendable, in fact. I don't like him, but I'll admit that has more to do with the announcers gushing over him every time he crosses the blueline without tripping, and showing 3 different angles of replays to commemerate the occassion. That's not Crosby's fault, and I know it... he was annointed because of his skill and his maturity (which is very impressive from someone his age, and with such talent and cash); but I will go ahead and keep disliking him simply because he gets so much attention and he does not play for the Red Wings. But you better bet I would welcome him in a heartbeat on the Red Wings.

Yup, that pre-season was the first indication of it, so it did not come completely out of left field. Wasn't he playing with Datsyuk at the time?

Hossa's defensive play is getting overrated around here. I do not think he is better at all than Franzen and Draper, and is more on par with Filppula and Cleary.

The guys at Hfboards have done a good job of compiling a lot of the awards and voting: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=145895&page=5 The voting of course fluctuates from season to season, which is why I am not looking at just one season. Lecavalier is a known player and was from the second he was drafted #1. If he was "very good" defensively, he would be getting a lot more votes, especially considering the fact that having good offensive numbers admittedly helps your Selke vote getting. I think your article is only helping my point, honestly.

I've already said Lecavalier is a "somewhat above average" defensive forward (and that "very good" was way too far). Often players do not garner a lot Selke votes until they are "noticed" by the rest of the league and media. Lecavalier (a #1 pick) does not fall into this category while someone like Datsyuk (and Madden) did. As you pointed out, often big name forwards will get a few votes thrown their way as well, in Selke voting... which makes it even more suprising Lecavalier gets so few nods. Hossa has consistantly gotten more votes than Lecavalier, and has been on equally bad, if not worse teams some of those years. If Lecavalier is "very good" defensively, he would be getting votes, there is no question about it. St. Louis is much better defensively than Lecavalier, and he does get votes. And I am not looking solely at single year voting... Tampa has obviously not always been a horrible team, and still Lecavalier is left out (except for '07 when he received 2 4th place votes).

Uhhh... Selke voting might have something to do with a forwards defensive ability, wouldn't you think? Chicago did not make the playoffs and that certainly did not have a bearing on Sharp getting a lot of attention. There are plenty of players on bad teams who get more votes than Lecavalier each and every year. What the hell are you talking about, "Selke votes do not equal a player's defensive ability"??? Are you nuts? Are you that desperate do defend your "eyes" telling you Lecavalier is a "very good defensive forward"? I think Lecavalier has gotten all of two votes (for 4th place) for the Selke throughout his entire career, there must be a conspiracy out there to keep him out of it.

That is going way too far! There were 9 Wings' forwards who received more Selke votes than Lecavalier last year, and it is not like Lecavalier is an unknown entity here. Lecavalier is a somewhat better than average two-way player.

Defense would have been my answer as well. Chances are Holmstrom will miss a portion of the season and will not score 40 goals. I want to see 90 assists from Datsyuk this year!

Heh... it certainly is not that much different. I think it is pretty safe to say Ovechkin is about the only guy any GM would hesitate trading for Crosby right now.

He had the same points as Zetterberg in less games. I am sure if the Penguins had won, Crosby would have gotten the Conn Smythe (and not Zetterberg). Sheesh, I don't like Crosby as much as the next guy, but I'm not going to pretend he is not a phenomenal talent already at an age when Datsyuk and Zetterberg were not even in the league. The only risk you take with him is that he does not improve one bit, and that is still awfully good. At his age, the smart money says he does improve.

Holland would trade Z *or* D for Crosby if given the opportunity... there is not much doubt in my mind about that. Luckily, he will never get the opportunity because a large part of me would hate to see it happen. Actually, I was pretty amazed at Crosby' ability to still produce against Detroit in the SCF. He was shut down in the first two games of course, but really was the catalyst for making some of those games even close. He is definitely the real deal. TSN did that poll recently and the 30 GM's used a 5-3-1 weighted system. 1) Sidney Crosby (PIT) -- 98 2) Alexander Ovechkin (WAS) -- 68 3) Roberto Luongo (VAN) -- 38 4) Dion Phaneuf (CGY) -- 21 5) Henrik Zetterberg (DET) --12

Bah! Most of the fans in the league think an "all-around forward" is one that hits and fights, not one that actually plays defense.