egroen

I actually heard the real reason Holland traded Quincey was mainly because Quincey was taking fighting lessons from Downey and stating so publicly. (He felt it sent a bad message). *Sorry! Just trying to incite something!!!*

Please destroy St. Louis... I have been patiently waiting for a blowout and this would be a great time for one. 6-1 Wings.

It's not that it is necessarily "flashy", but it's that it almost always leads directly to a scoring opportunity (so it is more exciting) because Datsyuk's hits and steals are so unexpected (and of course because so many of them take place in their end or on neutral ice). Flashy is a bit of a strawman anyways, and implies Datsyuk is a prima-donna out there when he is actually extremely utilitarian and efficient when he needs to be. He is not out there hot-dogging it and cherry-picking... but I think you know that, and describing him as "flashy" just makes it easier to discredit him.

I actually think he is one of the worst enforcers in the NHL, and the fact teams rarely retain him is a testament to this. Best fighter? Sure. But he is too much of a gentleman to be a really effective "enforcer". He won't fight or deliver a message to anyone much smaller than him, and most players are much smaller than him. He only fights other heavy weights, in pre-meditated bouts, and certainly does not enjoy that role... his fights are getting less and less each year. Give me a McCarty in his hey-day any time over Laraque. McCarty was not so big and monstrous that it was unfair if he would go after someone like Avery or Tootoo... and these are the guys that are the ones that really need a "message" sent to them; not the Parros' and other heavy weights of the NHL.

I agree. Datysuk is not a traditional two-way forward like Zetterberg is, but I would argue Datsyuk is more effective when he does not have the puck. Zetterberg is great defensively; smart and rock solid positionally and can obviously kill a penalty by himself. But Datsyuk reminds me of a shark out there, and I would be scared s***less as an opposing forward if I know he is on the ice when I have the puck. Datsyuk's hits and steals are so unexpected, it makes me laugh out loud to watch the complete suprise and chaos they cause, and he does them not only every game, but almost every single shift he is on the ice and does not have the puck. I have never seen anything like that, ever. Like you said, he is definitely more dangerous in the offensive and neutral zone, while Zetterberg is better in the defensive zone, but not by a ton. Datsyuk, when he is backchecking he rarely relents and will chase a forward well behind his own crease even and still come up with the puck. That said, I think if you asked both players to play defense (like Fedorov has), Zetterberg would be the better defenseman.... but I still think that Selke ended up in the right hands.

I find it always brightens my day to take some time and appreciate when another team is failing miserably. Tampa Bay, with all their offensive acquisitions and moves in the off-season, as well as bringing in our old friend Barry Melrose, is off to a blistering start: Currently winless with an 0-3-2 record and averaging all of 1.60 goals per game (dead last in the NHL). Ha! Ha!

The fans really are behind the whole "Tanking for Tavares" thing, aren't they? Can't really blame them... but man, what a painful season this could be (and then not to get him)!

I've also been quite pleased with Toronto's performance since beating the Wings on Opening Night

I think we're going to have to live with it for the regular season... but at least guys like Kronwall, Datsyuk, Franzen, Zetterberg and others have shown to really pick up the physical play in the playoffs (which *was* lacking prior to '07). It's probably best they do not do it in the regular season, let alone for the fact they have no one really watching their back.

I bet he would have no more problems filling seats if he had a real fighter in the lineup... like it or not, fights sell. I do miss it.... but not sure I would do anything differently with the glut of talent the Wings currently have.

Fan reaction can be summed up in the following: We were secretly glad Shanahan left (it was time), but we still wanted Fedorov. Insert your relationships that ended in similar fashion and you quickly understand why such bitterness exists towards one and not the other.

Usually the high-scoring eras are due to expansion and a watering down of the league(WW2 and players leaving to the WHA, for example). In the Original 6 days the competitive level of all the players was high, compared to eras immediately following expansion where what had been minor league level players are now making NHL teams and getting significant playing time. This opens it up for the top level of players and gives them room to score even more. My comparison to Phelps was only that his accomplishments are not lessened because he was swimming against a very small pool of competitors at the Olympics (only two swimmers from each qualifying country are invited to the Olympics). He would not look any better or worse if you invited the top 50 swimmers from each country. That's an excellent point and I should have brought it up before. There are a lot of Wings fans who think Draper and Holmstrom have already earned their numbers hanging in the rafters. They have those qualities Aurie did that earned him the recognition of the coach and owner of the time and the honor of having his number retired. Now imagine if Draper with his heart, leadership, loyalty, defensive play and grit actually lead the league in points in the playoffs one year. Let's say he also won the Rocket Richard trophy another year and finished top 4 in points twice out of the entire league. We would be in almost 100% agreement Draper should have his jersey retired! That was Aurie. I also asked a very specific question about Yzerman and I would be curious what your answer is.

Few will argue Lindsay does not deserve to have his number retired by the Wings, but many will say Fedorov does not deserve the same honor because of the "way he left"... Ironically, Fedorov was simply exercising his right to free agency that Ted Lindsay fought so hard to give the players (by creating a palyers' union). Ultimately, for challenging the powers that be in the NHL at the time, Lindsay was stripped of his captaincy and traded to the bottom-of-the-barrel Chicago Blackhawks. Lindsay was a leading player in the NHL and Jack Adams was so irate at him that he actually planted false rumours about Ted and false defamatory comments by Ted against his old team in the press, and showed a fake contract to the press, showing an inflated annual salary. It is hard to imagine a worse seperation than between Lindsay and the Red Wings. Time and perspective obviously change things. Fedorov was upset at the time of contracts being offered and pulled with little notice and said some inflamatory comments about the Red Wings organization (comparing leaving the Red Wings to leaving communist Russia), but his tone has definitely changed over the years and you would be hard pressed to find nothing but positive comments from Fedorov about the Wings. He is still active in the Detroit community and involved in charities as well. Even Ted Lindsay and the Red Wings were able to bury the hatchet. Ted was able to come back and finish his career as a Wing (once Adams was out, and Abel was in), and even was the NHL Executive of the Year once as general manager for the Wings. His number is now retired and he is an "Honored Member" of the Detroit Red Wings Alumni Association. Let's compare the numbers and awards (while both were Red Wings): GP Gls Ass Pts Regular Season 862 335 393 728 Lindsay 908 398 543 941 Fedorov GP Gls Ass Pts Playoffs 123 44 44.. 88 Lindsay 162 50 113 164 Fedorov Awards: Stanley Cups 4 Lindsay 3 Fedorov Art Ross - Lindsay 1st Team All Star X 8 - Lindsay 2nd Team All Star - Lindsay 1st Team All Star - Fedorov Pearson - Fedorov Hart - Fedorov Selke X 2 - Fedorov Feodorv is fourth all-time in nearly every offensive category in Red Wings history behind Gordie Howe, Steve Yzerman, and Alex Delvecchio. Only Howe, Yzerman, Delvecchio, and Nicklas Lidström have played more games as a Red Wing. My comparison to Lindsay is not to say Fedorov was "better" than Lindsay (he isn't), but only that here you have two great, integral players during thier tenure with the Wings, and both left on pretty bad terms. So I do think Fedorov's number will be retired by the Red Wings and it will be deserved.... but not before #4, #5 and #6!!!

Ultimately it comes down to this: Here you have what was the proto-typical Red Wing that set the standard for Wings players to this day: a skilled player who was amongst the best in the league offensively, was more than defensively responsible, worked his ass off, was not afraid to mix it up and get involved physically despite his size limits and by all accounts was a catalyst for making the Red Wings a winning team for the first time ever. His number was officially retired for over 40 years... and you are going to sit there and say his legacy and family does not deserve to see his number in the rafters?

Now be fair! I went a little further beyond, "I believe (with nothing to back it up), therefore it is..."

Exactly.

Lecavalier was a secondary player on that team - he had been stripped of his captaincy well before that year. Andreychuk was their captain, St. Louis was the points leader in the regular season and outscored Lecavalier in the playoffs, Richards was the Conn Smythe winner and points leader in the playoffs. In no way was that Lecavalier's team. To what?

You are literally making up things at this point. I heard once Yzerman said Lidstrom was overrated, but of course he would not go on the record...

I think he is a clown on the ice a lot; hurts his own team almost as much as he helps it; would prefer to never see him play for the Red Wings again; but find his interviews and outspoken comments refreshing and good for the NHL.

Wow, so the players were in the room with Wings management during the trade deadline? That (your quote), of course, is in reference to the Wings scouts and brain trust... not the players, and it is pure conjecture of the reasoning behind that as well. I heard the same interview with Holland this comment was based on, and I got more of the sense that Columbus was simply asking more than what the Red Wings were willing to trade at the deadline for Fedorov (at a high premium, considering it was within the division). It sounded like Holland was still considering, but other members of management and the scouts were against it. Even if we accept Fedorov was a "distraction" his last few years here... it obviously did not hinder them much when he was amongst the playoff leaders in points and the Wings won the Cup in 2002.

Since the Blues have not won a Stanley Cup -- in 1936, neither had the Red Wings. Is it fair to say that first one is something special? As has been pointed out, when he reitered due to a fractured leg at the age of 32, he lead the franchise in games played and goals scored, and he was third in assists and second in points. Is that good enough for you? He lead the entire league in the playoffs once (and is actually still one of the best PPG performers in Red Wings history (in a low scoring era no less), and we have now whittled down that he was a league leading goal scorer one year and placed top 4 in points twice. If that is not impressive enough, just why did Norris and Adams decide to retire his jersey? Maybe it was for the intangibles many of us argue Yzerman was greater than his numbers would indicate (Yzerman, who never lead the league in points, assists or goals and was a 1st team all star once) - heart, leadership, defensive play, grit, loyalty, class, etc.... from all accounts Aurrie had it in spades. Jack Adams was once asked how a young Gordie Howe measured up to Larry Aurie - he was the measuring block for the Wings of that time. Thoes are the sort of things you, amongst others, have been pestering me about over why Fedorov should not have his number retired - because Fedorov supposedly lacked some of those qualities - so surely they must count for a lot in your book, right? So you would be fine with them taking down Yzerman's number in that scenario? Oh please - that is a ridiculous statement; the best are the best and the cream always rises to the top - there were obviously minor leagues at the time of Aurie and only the best players made the NHL. If we lobbed off the bottom 100, or even 200 of the players in the NHL today would that have any bearing on the league leaders? If anything, it would bring the numbers down because every team would be full of nothing but the best talent in the world, just like in the original 6 days. If the league expanded today, and doubled the teams and number of players would it magically make Ovechkin that much better, now that he was playing against a lot more AHLers? To borrow from your avatar, would Michael Phelps' swims be that much more impressive if instead of the top two swimmers from each country being invited to the Olympics, the top 50 were there? How about if we threw in all the swimmers in the lap pools of all the YMCAs to make him look even better? Ebbie Goodfellow and Larry Aurie are excellent representatives from those early Cup winning teams - I have already stated that. After them you can take a look at Syd Howe, who was also a member of the '43 Cup winning team. Herbie Lewis might be your next bet after Howe, if you wanted to keep going. Norris and Adams felt so strongly that Aurie exemplified the Red Wings from that era they retired his number - I feel that should be honored.

Aurie was the first captain of the "Red Wings", snd every quote I read of him describes him as a leader of the team. Yzerman gets a lot of the credit he gets from toiling with a horrible Wings team and finally leading them to their first Cup in decades. Aurie helped lead the team to their first Stanley Cup ever. Possibly significant? Worthy of merit? Especially considering they were considered huge underdogs at the time. Do you think the Blues will hesitate to put someone up when they finally win a Cup? Believe it or not, that is an important thing to a team. Wow, what a sweeping dismissal of the entire Originl 6 era - including 5 out of the 6 numbers currently retired, and 7 out of 11 Stanley Cups. Should those numbers come down as well and should the Stanley Cup banners from those years even be bothered to be hung? Or do you think it was possible that Aurie was facing the top 60-80 hockey players in the world at the time? Was Yzerman really competing with the Boyd Devereauxs of the NHL, or was he competing with the top 20-30 hockey players in the NHL, year-after-year, just like the Original 6 players were? Are we going to dismiss Yzerman in 40 years because he was not competing in the globalized NHL, with over 1,500 players from South America to East Asia? Either you accept the history and significance of the NHL back to the Originsl 6 or you do not, there is no magical cut-off date when the hockey played in one year or even era is no longer significant and worthy of note. Playing against the top hockey players in the world at the time, Aurie lead the entire league in playoff points one year, lead the league in goals another season, was a runner-up in points and placed in the top 4 in another. .. all while being a top defensive forward and penalty killer. How many Red Wings players can say that? That is more comparable to the Yzermans and Fedorovs than it is the Kozlovs.

What's amazing is even with how bad the team is performing right now, they are on pace for another 100+ point season and a guaranteed playoff spot.

I wouldn't. Datsyuk and Zetterberg have years of peak productivity left, are miles ahead defensively and fit this system incredibly well, all for a nice discount. Crosby is worth A LOT, but not two top 5 forwards in the league, both in their prime.

Commy Burton - and it was done with the family's blessing. Conflicting articles have him as Larry's cousin or nephew. As fruitless as these generally are, there is an online petition to see Aurie's #6 in the rafters: http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/larry-...he-rafters.html BetterREDthandead, Aurie toiled with a miserable Red Wings team for years and lead the organization to its first ever Cup. He was the Wings first All-Star and a total heart and soul type player who was not afraid to drop the gloves (despite being 5'6 and 140 lbs) and lead the Wings forwards both offensively and defensively. If the HHoF was around back then, he would be in it for sure (one of the top forwards of his era, leading the league in goals once and top 5 in points several times, with as many first team all star selections as Yzerman and Fedorov)... just what is it about him that does not make his number retirement worthy? That's just thing -- Larry Aurie certainly deserved it at the time, and it was never questioned for decades. It is certainly possible a number of Wings players in the future will eclipse Yzerman's accomplishments, and Yzerman could end up looking just like Aurie right now. I would be pretty pissed if a future owner just decided to take it down.