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Rafalski has a no-trade clause. The only way it is possible to hold on to Zetterberg + Hossa + Franzen is if we see another significant cap raise. It has been going up approximately 10% a year and another $5.6 million would go a long ways in keeping those three. *If* Hossa works, you have to accept letting Hudler + Samuelsson go. You then have to look at your trading options with Cleary and Filppula, who both make a chunk of change, but whose salaries would still be very attractive to other teams. That is only if Hossa is clearly worth it.

He was used as a forward occassionally on the power play for the Red Wings (or when there were forward injuries)... but obviously not enough for him to not be considered one of the greatest defensemen of the time. His game was a lot like Lidstrom's: very cerebral. Ironically, he was a golden gloves boxer, but rarely used it on the ice.

Well that rat bastard... what a great game and way to start an NHL career. 3 even strength goals, the game winner and only the 3rd person ever to do it in a first NHL game. Now he not only has to live up to his pre-signing hype, but his first game hype

Oh, Fedorov is a lock for the HHoF... you will find few who disagree. Feodorov is better than Sid Abel and Alex Delvecchio, without a doubt. So is Red Kelly, who was even better.

Maybe that will be my next thread...

Every team is playing lights-out vs. the Wings. Go visit another forum and look at their GDTs vs. the Wings. Carolina fans thought the Hurricans were heading to the SCFs for sure if they continued to play like they did in their loss to the wings. Wings fans GDT that day: "Meh."

People at the time did not think someone playing a "sport" should be filthy rich. Is that so stupid? It is now perfectly acceptable (for the most part), but I don't think fans of hockey back then were stupid for wanting to see the same players on the same team for most of their careers. My father still thinks free agency has killed a lot of the sports he grew up loving. It's not like these hockey players faced similar conditions to factory workers of the early 20th century.... those early union leaders could definitely be considered "heroes". Ted Lindsay, not so much.

Did you know Sakic signed an offer sheet with the Rangers back in '97, while he was captain? A lot of people seem to forget that when comparing him to Yzerman, though I do not think it is enough of a reason Sakic's number should not be retired in Colorado (not that they are that picky, anyways ), but that is a main reason many dislike Fedorov, yet Sakic is almost universally loved. They both betrayed the teams they were with (one for more money for himself and one for more money for all hockey players) and were despised by the fans for years as a result.

Osgood does not even sniff Fedorov - you need a completely different set of argumants and future factors to even make a case for Osgood. He was forced out (traded), and wrongly (as we view it today), but he knew what his actions would lead to and did them anyways. Jack Adam's views on a union were not exactly secret.

But it is the first one by me, and I make a much better case Anyways, I completely agree he should not be up there for many years (unlike Yzerman and Lidstrom who go up immediately).

I'm well aware and I agree 100%.... just at the time the overwhelming sentiment was not so. Lindsay was hated way more than Fedorov is now. I'm just saying in a number of years the "bad" about Fedorov will be glossed over by the good, and he will be hanging in the rafters.

You are aware, of course, that Kelly played center for Toronto, and not defense? Which might explain the better numbers

Exactly - Lindsay leaving was far worse, especially if you were a Red Wings fan. Lindsay was making 5 times as much money as your "average blue collar worker" and was not loved by the fans. His actions leading to him being stripped of the captaincy and traded from the team was considered greedy and treacherous at the time. The overwhelming feeling was that Lindsay should be thankful for what he got (for playing a game), and should show loyalty to the team and management that had given him so much. Public sentiment was overwhelmingly in favor of Adams, the guy who had put together the Wings dynasty.... over "Terrible Ted".

But the bad cancels out the good? Seriously read up on what Lindsay did as a player... Fedorov is nothing compared to him.

I am in 100% agreement here! Check out any "Top 100" ranking out there and get back to me and I will debate this further if you would like (though I do not think it deserves any debate whatsoever). There are still plenty out there who think Kelly is still better than Lidstrom.

Essentially because Aurie is not in the Hall of Fame, and it somehow "lessened" the other names up there.... this is the best reason I can come up with. Aurie lead the Wings to their first two Cups (back-to-back in '36 and '37). He lead the team in points and as a Captain and was the first Red Wing to have his number retired. Mike Illitch simply had it taken down and erased from all official records. The Aurie family has never received an explanation and it is a great blight in what has otherwise been a wonderful ownership by Illitch.

Such bitter fans... man, you guys would have hated Lindsay with a passion, Kelly and Sawchuk you would despise and you would probably have never forgiven Howe for playing in the WHA. I can think of a few bad things about Fedorov, but I can also think of thousands of great things he did while in Detroit, as a player and for the community (and still does in the community). Wings fans such as you are about the only hockey fans in the NHL who do not like and greatly respect Fedorov.

He really did. He defied the coach and management by fighting for the right to earn more money (let's face it, that is really the ultimate purpose of a union, isn't it?). As a result he was stripped of his captaincy and traded away... no question his actions hurt that team, probably a lot more than Fedorov's actions. You think Lindsay was never called a "greedy player"?

Sure: Abel and Delvecchio do not deserve to be in if Kelly is not in. Kelly was twice the hockey player they were. Lindsay was universally despised by all the management in the NHL and one of the most hated and dirty players ever to put on a Red Wings jersey. The reason you can find so many who think #91 should not be in there is because he is still playing and all the "negatives" are still fresh in our minds... to some, even more fresh than his positives (which is ridiculous). Fast forward 30 years and no one will care how Fedorov left and his number will be hanging in the rafters, I guarantee it. Just like no one cares that Sawchuk was bats*** crazy and ultimately died from an injury sustained during a fight with his own teamate.

5 players from the 50s dynasty are currently in the rafters: Howe, Sawchuk, Lindsay, Abel and Delvecchio Certainly well deserved, but this was not the only period of great success in the Red Wings history, and this fact should be represented in the rafters.

Thanks, but I think #91 is on a much higher level than #14. Chelios' accomplishments as a Wing pale in comparison to his accomplishments with Chicago and even Montreal. I vote for #4 and then finally re-retire #6 (which is just shameful, if you ask me)... Lidstrom is not even retired yet. Osgood at the very least needs another Cup and to beat more of Sawchuk's records to even be considered. Sawchuk is currently the only goalie up there and is ten times the goalie Osgood ever has been. Based on a lot of the poster's criteria here for not inducting Fedorov, all of Abel, Lindsay, Sawchuk and Delvecchio would not be in the rafters today. What box would it open? Who comes even close to accomplishing what Fedorov accomplished as a Red Wing and is not already up there? Kelly? Yes, and he should already be up there.

Not even Howe played his entire career with the Wings. Do you think #19 is the only one that deserves to be in the rafters?

Ever heard of Red Kelly? He has more of a "case" than Delvecchio and Abel, but also left on bad terms with Jack Adams. I am sure a "case" had to be made for every retired number outside of Howe and Yzerman. Do you think those should be the only two numbers in the rafters?

President Bush sucker-punched him! Egads, Babcock has such a low tolerance threshold for Hudler... still on the third line even with Zetterberg out.

Hudler did play great in pre-season as well, with over a point per game. 3 regular season games does seem pretty early to bump him down. I'm not terribly concerned, because he can produce at a good clip on the lower lines, but I am not too sure who on the team would be a better feeder to Zetterberg and Franzen. I would love to see this second line. Franzen can play center as well.