egroen

Grrr... well, there is no "let's play it out in camp" anymore. Lilja absolutely has to be traded. I want Chelios back, but would have really liked if he would put his money where his mouth is and play for league minimum.

In that case, I would tend to value a big, bruising power forward like Bertuzzi at the time. In the days of clutching & grabbing their value was at an all-time high. Without the trap + clutching & grabbing, a defenseman like Lidstrom is even more valuable -- as the mediocore ones can not just get by from grappling onto forwards.

Who was injured during *that* time before Lidstrom's injury? Hint: It was not the offense. Lidstrom is a top 5 defender of all time and a top 20 player of all time -- and he is still at a level with his peak/prime. He has consistently been the best player in the NHL for years now, with only Crosby and Ovechkin sporadically throwing out anything competitive with what Lidstrom has been providing year-in-and-year-out. The only other active player anywhere close to that is Brodeur.... and he may be the second best player in the NHL right now. If you were to place odds on a player having a "great" season, Lidstrom and Brodeur are your safest bets.

Those goalies had more to do with the Wings losses, individually, than any other player on those teams.... and they continued to do so, right up until the Cup finals in each case. I doubt you disagree with me. That was my whole point - I take a goalie first 9 times out 10.

Fixed.

That's a tall order. Regarding Chiasson -- there have been pleny better on the Wings -- Chelios, M. Howe, Coffey, Murphy... -- but they were not i ntheir prime, so it is hard to weigh.

It's the 60+ goals... that is a rare bird. Makes him more valuable than Crosby, IMO... but not Lidstrom, not yet.

When you factor age into it, I would not pick Lidstrom at this point either, despite thinking he is the best player in the NHL. There are no young dmen that show near the potential of Lidstrom to warrant picking at this time to build a team around, either. Lidstrom is a generational talent, easily a top 10 defenseman ever, and arguably a top 5. And I would pick AO or Crosby over Dats and Z right now simply because they are younger. But if you offer me all those players, at the same age and at the same salary, I pick Lidstrom, because he is proven to be that much better than his peers, and is on the ice for close to half the game.

To be fair, you are totally changing the question of the opening post, which was essentially 'Who is the Best Player in the NHL?' If you could build a team and start with one guy, you would be an idiot not to start with the best young goalie in the league today: Luongo.

I do disagree with this - I think it is pretty apparent a LOT of teams, especially in the East, would pick Ovechkin. You are not crazy if you pick a guy who put up over 60 goals... but right now, I still think Lidstrom is better and more valuable. He is the best defender in the league, and still manages to score over a point per game.

Are you all completely forgetting Chelios in the 07 playoffs??? He was a stud...

That's a given. As for Orr - All you need to know is he won the Norris, Hart, Art Ross and Conn Smythe -- All in one season.

I think he is trying to give the impression they are going to "play it out" at camp -- but it is pretty clear, due to cap numbers, that it is going to be either Lilja or Lebda. And if Chelios is closer to his $850k -- it absolutely has to be Lilja. Unless he is going to ship Samuelsson off as well, which I really do not see happening, considering Babcock's man-love for Samy.

I think Hudler would have a new fan if they stopped holding him back and turned him loose in those scrums! He's a spitfire, that one!!

And what happened last year in the playoffs when Detroit lost some of its key D, or this regular season when our D was having injury problems? Detroit has a great offense, but is definitely a Defense-first team, and it is painfully obvious whenever any of our key defensemen go down.

What is amazing about Lidstrom is he put up more points than offensive-defensemen like Gonchar, Phaneuf and Campbell -- and by a larger margin this year than Ovechkin did over other top forwards -- but those guys are not even in the same ballpark as Lidstrom is defensively. Not even close.

It will literally come down to what Chelios and Quincey signed for. If Quincey is at or close to league minimum and Chelios is at the low end as well, it could be just Lebda. Part of me wishes we just went to arbitration with Filppula and we would not be anywhere close to having this problem.

Hudler. Filppula will not even sniff 70+ points. Babcock seems to be finally realizing this.

How on earth did Detroit manage to beat Pittsburgh this year -- or Anaheim beat Ottawa last year? Crosby/Malkin/Hossa and Heatley/Spezza/Alfredsson are offensive juggernauts that blew anything the West had to offer out of the water. Call me crazy, but I think "defence" had more than a little to do with it. The 80's are an abberation. Exciting hockey yes, but for 80% of the NHL's existence it has been defence-first all the way. How many years now has it been now that a defence-first or traping team has made it to the finals or won the whole thing?

I would love to see a coach's poll on who everyone would pick first. It would be interesting where the votes would go. I'm sure we would see Luongo, Brodeur, Lidstrom, Crosby, Ocechkin and maybe some Iginla, Thornton. But I bet Lidstrom would be the only defender.

No problem, and many teams in the East would agree with you Lidstrom is clearly the best defenceman in the league, has been for years, and it is by a healthy margin.... it is pretty much without argument as well. Ovechkin has Crosby (who many believe is superior) and several others nipping at their heels... they are not head and shoulders above the rest of the forwards in the league. When you have someone like Lidstrom, who is so superior at what he does, like a Hasek in the late 90s -- that is where my first pick lies.

There is no doubt in my mind Lidstrom would have a Hart by now if that had happened. Babcock himself said he always knew Lidstrom was good, but it took him a year of coaching here to realize just how good - and that is who Babcock has been campaigning for to win the Hart. Unfortunately (for individual accolades) Lidstrom is surrounded by a lot of talent each year, and his talent is not a flashy one that gets noticed right away.

It's like bizarro homerism - Lidstrom is not the best in the game now (near his peak), but he is perhaps the greatest dman ever? Is Ovechkin better than Bobby Hull then? I've seen too many of your posts to actually think you believe Lidstrom is greater than Orr, but the wording made me chuckle.

I honestly think if the Predators went an entire season with a decent amount of luck (no change in ownership, not losing numerous key players to injury/KHL/Planet Zorn, etc...) they would probably miss the playoffs. They simply would not know what to do.

Ultimately, only one or maybe two of Chelios/Lilja/Lebda/Meech/Quincey will be here for the next 2-3 years. Eriksson, Kindl and Pyett are all looming, with Smith and a few others getting closer as well. I hope it is Chelios